What Creationists Say About Global Warming
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Hey, Jorgen, do you think its getting warmer? http://www.john-daly.com/stations/visby-fl.gif[^] http://www.john-daly.com/stations/jyvaskyl.gif[^] http://www.john-daly.com/stations/haparand.gif[^]
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Funny you should ask. Yes, I think so. Considering that we've had about 2 weeks worth of winter (south Svealand, and Götaland). We've had less than 2 weeks worth of snow. Since I was little, what I've observed is: 1) Winters have become shorter and warmer 2) Summers have become shorter and colder If that's attributed to man made global warming, or if it's a natural phenomenon, or a mixture of both, I don't know. But what I do know, is that the climate has changed. Tree buds aren't supposed to grow here in the beginning of februari...
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Hey, Jorgen, do you think its getting warmer? http://www.john-daly.com/stations/visby-fl.gif[^] http://www.john-daly.com/stations/jyvaskyl.gif[^] http://www.john-daly.com/stations/haparand.gif[^]
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
BTW, wasn't that a bit off topic? What does this have to do with creationism?
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Funny you should ask. Yes, I think so. Considering that we've had about 2 weeks worth of winter (south Svealand, and Götaland). We've had less than 2 weeks worth of snow. Since I was little, what I've observed is: 1) Winters have become shorter and warmer 2) Summers have become shorter and colder If that's attributed to man made global warming, or if it's a natural phenomenon, or a mixture of both, I don't know. But what I do know, is that the climate has changed. Tree buds aren't supposed to grow here in the beginning of februari...
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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BTW, wasn't that a bit off topic? What does this have to do with creationism?
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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digital man wrote:
My favourite is always that we can barely predict local weather patterns for more than a few days and usually get it wrong anyway. What makes anyone think it can be predicted accurately for the whole world for years to come?
Surely short-term predictions are much more difficult to predict than long-term ones? I guess an analogy would be the stock market where its impossible to predict over a few days, but tends to follow trends over the long term.
It's impossible to predict the movement of particles on a small scale, but yet we can predict whether a current will flow through a cable or not. We can even predict in which direction it will flow. We've become pretty good at it too!
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Did you look at the Swedish station data I linked to?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Yes, I did. In the case of Haparanda, the temperature has risen. Its interval is also between 1860 and 2000, whereas the other's aren't.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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It's impossible to predict the movement of particles on a small scale, but yet we can predict whether a current will flow through a cable or not. We can even predict in which direction it will flow. We've become pretty good at it too!
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
I feel that you are both comparing apples and oranges. Knowing that current flows in a particular direction is not the same as saying that the climate will change in a particular manner over a period of time just because it may have done so in the past. The Earth is a dynamic system, changing and evolving constantly. We simply don't have the tools or understanding (yet) to be able to accurately predict what the climate may be in 10 or 20 years.
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Funny you should ask. Yes, I think so. Considering that we've had about 2 weeks worth of winter (south Svealand, and Götaland). We've had less than 2 weeks worth of snow. Since I was little, what I've observed is: 1) Winters have become shorter and warmer 2) Summers have become shorter and colder If that's attributed to man made global warming, or if it's a natural phenomenon, or a mixture of both, I don't know. But what I do know, is that the climate has changed. Tree buds aren't supposed to grow here in the beginning of februari...
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Since I was little, what I've observed is: 1) Winters have become shorter and warmer 2) Summers have become shorter and colder
Yeah, me too. Well, actually, the first winters i remember were quite pleasant. The next few bitter cold. The new few dry and cold, with blisteringly hot summers. Then a few more proper ones. Then some really pleasant summers with unfortunately dry, warm, winters. This winter is about right though - cold, long, lots and lots and lots of snow (unfortunately, i'm not there to enjoy it - always dry here). Of course, that's not quite 30 years of casual history. I doubt it actually indicates anything, other than my willingness to always complain about the weather... ;)
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Yes, I did. In the case of Haparanda, the temperature has risen. Its interval is also between 1860 and 2000, whereas the other's aren't.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
In the case of Haparanda, the temperature has risen. Its interval is also between 1860 and 2000, whereas the other's aren't.
So from those would you say there is any overall trend?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
In the case of Haparanda, the temperature has risen. Its interval is also between 1860 and 2000, whereas the other's aren't.
So from those would you say there is any overall trend?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
No, because I can't, because they're different intervals. Even if they had been the same interval, I don't believe my opinion has worth, since the subject is way above my head. I don't pretend to be a climate researcher.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Probably because you are sane...
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Yes, but do you know how much I could have probably sold it for? :-\
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Probably because you are sane...
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Probably because you are sane...
Just hope God doesn't read the Codeproject boards. He probably wouldn't appreciate seeing his website made fun of.
Furthermore, in Galileo's time and for quite some time afterwards, the "scientific evidence" was *against* heliocentrism. - Ilion
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Well, he didn't mention god once and just raised some reasonable questions about GW/Climate Chnage or whatever the hell it's being called this week. My favourite is always that we can barely predict local weather patterns for more than a few days and usually get it wrong anyway. What makes anyone think it can be predicted accurately for the whole world for years to come? And yes, I realise that someone will quote historical records and evidence but that may not be a predictor of the future: much of this historical information was available in the 60s/70s and the popular myth then was we were just about to enter an ice age and it was promulgated with much of the same fervour being seen today. In truth I have no idea if a) there is climate change over and above what may be natural or b) that humans do enough or anything to impact it in a deliterious manner and c) so what? We won't hurt the planet (as is so often stated), rather we may or the climate may harm humanity. The planet will go on quite nicely regardless of whether we strutt across the surface or not.
digital man wrote:
In truth I have no idea if a) there is climate change over and above what may be natural or b) that humans do enough or anything to impact it in a deliterious manner and c) so what? We won't hurt the planet (as is so often stated), rather we may or the climate may harm humanity. The planet will go on quite nicely regardless of whether we strutt across the surface or not.
You said it well and in few words! - a 5!
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=781e7e188e88c7270702[^] If these logical rational people don't think global warming is real then who could disagree!
Furthermore, in Galileo's time and for quite some time afterwards, the "scientific evidence" was *against* heliocentrism. - Ilion
I assume you were just being a little antagonistic, so I don't expect that you really meant to suggest that all religious people are creationists. If, on the off chance you were, let me point at me and say "see?" Just because I believe in a creator doesn't mean I subscribe to the *poof* theory of creation. There are a couple of us that have faith and thoughts (granted our numbers are dwindling).
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Probably because you are sane...
Just hope God doesn't read the Codeproject boards. He probably wouldn't appreciate seeing his website made fun of.
Furthermore, in Galileo's time and for quite some time afterwards, the "scientific evidence" was *against* heliocentrism. - Ilion
DemonPossessed wrote:
Just hope God doesn't read the Codeproject boards. He probably wouldn't appreciate seeing his website made fun of.
I think God not only reads Code Project, but He keeps asking for coding help in broken English.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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I assume you were just being a little antagonistic, so I don't expect that you really meant to suggest that all religious people are creationists. If, on the off chance you were, let me point at me and say "see?" Just because I believe in a creator doesn't mean I subscribe to the *poof* theory of creation. There are a couple of us that have faith and thoughts (granted our numbers are dwindling).
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Since I was little, what I've observed is: 1) Winters have become shorter and warmer 2) Summers have become shorter and colder
Yeah, me too. Well, actually, the first winters i remember were quite pleasant. The next few bitter cold. The new few dry and cold, with blisteringly hot summers. Then a few more proper ones. Then some really pleasant summers with unfortunately dry, warm, winters. This winter is about right though - cold, long, lots and lots and lots of snow (unfortunately, i'm not there to enjoy it - always dry here). Of course, that's not quite 30 years of casual history. I doubt it actually indicates anything, other than my willingness to always complain about the weather... ;)
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Shog9 wrote:
other than my willingness to always complain about the weather...
Just the weather? :laugh:
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
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BoneSoft wrote:
doesn't mean I subscribe to the *poof* theory of creation
So you don't buy the big bang model? :-D
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
OK Touche... But I think poof is probably a drastic understatement of the big bang. But seriously, with their apparent discovery that the universe is accelerating in expansion, I'm not so sure that we need to invent dark energy so much as question big bang. It's always sounded reasonable to me, but now... I'd be interested in what DemonBoy thinks on the subject, he's the resident authority on heavenly bodies, but I don't know how much he's into cosmology in general. I was skeptical when they invented dark matter, but now dark energy? Sounds like somebody let the string theorists out of their pens.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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I feel that you are both comparing apples and oranges. Knowing that current flows in a particular direction is not the same as saying that the climate will change in a particular manner over a period of time just because it may have done so in the past. The Earth is a dynamic system, changing and evolving constantly. We simply don't have the tools or understanding (yet) to be able to accurately predict what the climate may be in 10 or 20 years.
Exactly. And it seems most alarmists are looking at relatively short periods. Which, granted, is partially due to the fact that we don't have that much data for truely long ranges. Trends do emerge when you look at the right scale, but who's to say what the right scale is for global climate? The "hockey puck" graph was based on a very small range. And as you say, there are virtually uncountable variables that play into global climate.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
