Intro + doubt
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
Julia4u wrote:
Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ?
I always believed that Object Oriented is component oriented. An object is made of up A,B,and C. This object fits with other objects that have X,Y, and Z. All of these objects are placed in a specific way to create a framework. A classic example of an object is a Person object (or class). This CPerson would have a name, address, and phone number. Another object could be a pet, so CPet, which could be an inherited class of CPerson but let's add Species as a var. Anyway, these object would fit into the framework of your application. ...hey no programming questions in the lounge :P
Julia4u wrote:
First of all i will introduce myself.
Hello welcome to CP! Look out for the angry badgers and Soapbox gremlins.
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - PPokemon
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
Julia4u wrote:
I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP.
Welcome aboard the code ship... free cocktails in the lounge! ;)
Adam Smith www.codeproject.com
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Hello Marc Clifton, I wish instead of asking me these question, if you could provide me answer to it then it will be much clear to me. I have read a lot about Framework and Component now. But nowhere they discuss this issue. And to be very honest it is still not too clear to me. Framework is reusable design. May be collection of components.And components instances of ADT that can be used in application. Regards, Julia
Julia4u wrote:
I wish instead of asking me these question, if you could provide me answer to it then it will be much clear to me.
So much for leading the horse to water even. First, I have no intention of doing your homework, your dissertation, your presentation, or whatever it is that you're trying to weasle your way out of. And the point of me asking those questions is as lauren said. Second, I'm not in the business of spoon feeding answers to people. Third, if you can't even take a stab yourself at those questions and enter a possibly interesting dialog, then I come rapidly to the conclusion that you're just trolling to get your homework done. Newbies. :sigh: Marc
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i think what marc is saying is that you need to think about the concepts of frameworks and components and understand what each are and how they are (or can be) constructed ... then you will see the way to answer your own questions ... for true knowledge only comes thru understanding ones own questions ... if you dont do that then all you want is someone to do your homework for you and you will learn nothing (and go on to become a vb programmer and suffer the scorn and ridicule of us for all eternity etc etc) easy choice eh? ;)
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
l a u r e n wrote:
i think what marc is saying is that you need to think about the concepts of frameworks and components and understand what each are and how they are (or can be) constructed ... then you will see the way to answer your own questions ... for true knowledge only comes thru understanding ones own questions
Exactly! Marc
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Shog9 wrote:
I disagree!
So why don't you pick a one answer,, you only have two.. Anyway here is my answer for the original poster, let's debate on this This is not a question for a professional.. I mean it is stupid. This has to be asked from a student.. to me answering to your question is a real mess.. I can ask thousand of question that violate my own definition, given (at least trying) below.. Component: Is a part of a software, which more often, it alone is capable or representing a section of a software. You may add/ remove component to/ from your software. As an example a notification module of a web application can be an one component, there you may just called a method with relevant parameters to send a notification email..That component may queued up requests, then connect to a mail server to sequentially send them. There can be another module or component or a part that handles the IO operation of the system. Framework: That alone does not make much sense with respect to a final solution, and it is a concept or the basic guideline of how you really need to build or implement a system. As an example there can be a simple framework to create a content management system, where it has the basic definition with its default implementation, but it order to build the content management system you need to do further developments on top of that framework. Finally, this is a half baked answer. I know it is not perfect. But as some of the other replies already requested, you need to read.. It is clear, that you don't understand the basic OOP concepts, when we answer your questions, we may definitely use them. So the end result would be that even if you read the answer you will not understand it, since you don’t know the base words that we would used to give the answer..
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. I've never met an Irish who is fully Irish. I dont know :) You speak french? Ok beware, we've got some ramantoxic guys around who may try their honey-dipped language to get you fallen. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? Well I'll invoke my instincts to predict your actual need...done. Component. By any chance you managed to dig into COM? (Component Object Model)? If so I see some sense in your question. COM as such is object oriented. It's based on Interfaces so even in the simplest COM Component you will get to see OO implementation. But if you are just talking about a "component" literally, it can mean anything that is reusable and that can be plugged-in. You can make a dll in C and you might wish to call it a main "component" of your application. But that does necessarily mean it has to be object oriented. BUT, if once you say you've done a COM component, you've already let the OO get in. got it? Framework: It makes life better & simpler for a programmer. Instead of letting your hand & nose dirty with raw apis & stuff, it gets you a much simpler way to get a functionailty done. And as MS says, it would let you go back home fast. :) Ok hold on, The basic definition for OOP: Object-oriented programming (OOP) is a programming paradigm that uses "objects" and their interactions to design applications and computer programs. It is based on several techniques, including encapsulation, modularity, polymorphism, and inheritance. As you see, it's a very generic paradigm. You can implement it anywhere. Read it again, "it's a concept". So there's no point in talking about if that is more OO or this is more OO. it all depends on to what extent this&that has implemented OO. Since it's your first question, we have managed to put the torches back and have given you a rope. Next time, hehe I'll burn the ropes before burning you ;). And as by our ritual, I've given you a 1. :-\
OK,. what country just started work for the day ? The ASP.NET forum is flooded with retarded questions. -Christian Graus Best wishes to Rexx[^]
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Julia4u wrote:
I wish instead of asking me these question, if you could provide me answer to it then it will be much clear to me.
So much for leading the horse to water even. First, I have no intention of doing your homework, your dissertation, your presentation, or whatever it is that you're trying to weasle your way out of. And the point of me asking those questions is as lauren said. Second, I'm not in the business of spoon feeding answers to people. Third, if you can't even take a stab yourself at those questions and enter a possibly interesting dialog, then I come rapidly to the conclusion that you're just trolling to get your homework done. Newbies. :sigh: Marc
its a pity - for her .. she had one of the masters giving her thoughts to start with and clues to read his articles, but she comes back with a thinly worded 'please do my homework for me' ... what a waste !!!! they say youth is wasted on the young - theyre not kidding if this is an indication 'g'
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Marc Clifton wrote:
So, let's pretend you are the horse and I'm the water. You know the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it?" So, along those lines, let me ask you:
There's another saying: "You can lead an Indian to CodeProject, have him fake sex, location and nationality, but you can't wrangle a decent question out of him".
martin_hughes wrote:
There's another saying: "You can lead an Indian to CodeProject, have him fake sex, location and nationality, but you can't wrangle a decent question out of him".
Or: If it asks dumb questions like an Indian, if it mangles the language like an Indian, and if it keep repeating itself like an Indian, then it's an Indian.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Nirosh wrote:
Well, if these two are the options, then Frameworks are more relevant as a framework cannot be defined without OO concepts (mainly such as inheritance) but a component may.
I disagree! (well, sure, why not. ;) ) A framework is merely a set of tools and libraries created to support a specific method of application design. There's no requirement that they be OO, although that does seem to be the norm. Component OTOH, implies pluggable objects.
But who is the king of all of these folks?
I recall that when MS was designing what became MFC, they tried to make it as OO as possible. Then they showed it to some developers, who told MS they didn't understand it and wouldn't use it. So MS redesigned it to be closer to the Win32 layer it was wrapping, and that's the way it is today. Borland's OWL, on the other hand, went the other way. So people who knew Win32 loved MFC and hated OWL; and people who didn't know Win32 loved OWL and hated MFC. Sort of a tale of two frameworks. I suppose OO components might imply COM-based components, but I'm not sure what is gained by applying such a label. OO is certainly not the first thing that comes to mind when thinking about the question, "What does it mean to create a good component?"
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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Shog9 wrote:
I disagree!
So why don't you pick a one answer,, you only have two.. Anyway here is my answer for the original poster, let's debate on this This is not a question for a professional.. I mean it is stupid. This has to be asked from a student.. to me answering to your question is a real mess.. I can ask thousand of question that violate my own definition, given (at least trying) below.. Component: Is a part of a software, which more often, it alone is capable or representing a section of a software. You may add/ remove component to/ from your software. As an example a notification module of a web application can be an one component, there you may just called a method with relevant parameters to send a notification email..That component may queued up requests, then connect to a mail server to sequentially send them. There can be another module or component or a part that handles the IO operation of the system. Framework: That alone does not make much sense with respect to a final solution, and it is a concept or the basic guideline of how you really need to build or implement a system. As an example there can be a simple framework to create a content management system, where it has the basic definition with its default implementation, but it order to build the content management system you need to do further developments on top of that framework. Finally, this is a half baked answer. I know it is not perfect. But as some of the other replies already requested, you need to read.. It is clear, that you don't understand the basic OOP concepts, when we answer your questions, we may definitely use them. So the end result would be that even if you read the answer you will not understand it, since you don’t know the base words that we would used to give the answer..
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
But as some of the other replies already requested, you need to read.. It is clear, that you don't understand the basic OOP concepts, when we answer your questions, we may definitely use them. So the end result would be that even if you read the answer you will not understand it, since you don’t know the base words that we would used to give the answer.. Are all these for Shog? :laugh:
OK,. what country just started work for the day ? The ASP.NET forum is flooded with retarded questions. -Christian Graus Best wishes to Rexx[^]
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martin_hughes wrote:
There's another saying: "You can lead an Indian to CodeProject, have him fake sex, location and nationality, but you can't wrangle a decent question out of him".
Or: If it asks dumb questions like an Indian, if it mangles the language like an Indian, and if it keep repeating itself like an Indian, then it's an Indian.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
If it asks dumb questions like an Indian, if it mangles the language like an Indian, and if it keep repeating itself like an Indian, then it's an Indian.
The way they refer to a question as a "doubt" is also one of the tell-tale signs of an Indian.
Furthermore, in Galileo's time and for quite some time afterwards, the "scientific evidence" was *against* heliocentrism. - Ilion
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But as some of the other replies already requested, you need to read.. It is clear, that you don't understand the basic OOP concepts, when we answer your questions, we may definitely use them. So the end result would be that even if you read the answer you will not understand it, since you don’t know the base words that we would used to give the answer.. Are all these for Shog? :laugh:
OK,. what country just started work for the day ? The ASP.NET forum is flooded with retarded questions. -Christian Graus Best wishes to Rexx[^]
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I recall that when MS was designing what became MFC, they tried to make it as OO as possible. Then they showed it to some developers, who told MS they didn't understand it and wouldn't use it. So MS redesigned it to be closer to the Win32 layer it was wrapping, and that's the way it is today. Borland's OWL, on the other hand, went the other way. So people who knew Win32 loved MFC and hated OWL; and people who didn't know Win32 loved OWL and hated MFC. Sort of a tale of two frameworks. I suppose OO components might imply COM-based components, but I'm not sure what is gained by applying such a label. OO is certainly not the first thing that comes to mind when thinking about the question, "What does it mean to create a good component?"
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
Hans Dietrich wrote:
OO is certainly not the first thing that comes to mind when thinking about the question, "What does it mean to create a good component?"
Heh, nope. But then, OO isn't the first thing that comes to mind when i think, "what do i need in a framework?" either. Kinda reminds me why i ended up writing essays in the margins of multiple-choice tests. :rolleyes:
But who is the king of all of these folks?
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Oakman wrote:
If it asks dumb questions like an Indian, if it mangles the language like an Indian, and if it keep repeating itself like an Indian, then it's an Indian.
The way they refer to a question as a "doubt" is also one of the tell-tale signs of an Indian.
Furthermore, in Galileo's time and for quite some time afterwards, the "scientific evidence" was *against* heliocentrism. - Ilion
DemonPossessed wrote:
The way they refer to a question as a "doubt" is also one of the tell-tale signs of an Indian.
I am sure you're right. The Gaelic for question is ceisd whereas aincheas means doubt. And the French for question is, amazingly enough, question. While the French for doubt is doute, so 'twould seem unlikely that a French lass or an Irish lad or whatever the mixture might be would make that mistake.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
Julia4u wrote:
Framework or to Component
Hi Julia. It may help us deal with your question if you can frame the discussion for us. How do you define a framework and how do you define a component? Personally, my definition of a framework is strict set of tools and libraries used to construct things according to a specified approach or "world view". I view components as discrete entities that can be used to help with the construction of things. For me the distinction is that components can be used in different frameworks. Feel free to apply this leaky abstraction to things like different schools of architecture and painting.
Julia4u wrote:
Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ?
I think OO concepts are only revelent when used and necassary. :) It's a bit of a flippant answer but I think it is valid. If you are coding a revolutionary memcopy routine in C using C libraries and C compilers there is no logical reason to even consider an OO approach. However, if you are working on the coolest ever Object Database in C# then by all that is right in this world you should be considering OO concepts.
Julia4u wrote:
I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two.
I suggest just hitting a search engine and looking for "componet" and "framework." There are lots of different opinions out there. Good luck and welcome to the community.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Julia4u wrote:
I wish instead of asking me these question, if you could provide me answer to it then it will be much clear to me.
So much for leading the horse to water even. First, I have no intention of doing your homework, your dissertation, your presentation, or whatever it is that you're trying to weasle your way out of. And the point of me asking those questions is as lauren said. Second, I'm not in the business of spoon feeding answers to people. Third, if you can't even take a stab yourself at those questions and enter a possibly interesting dialog, then I come rapidly to the conclusion that you're just trolling to get your homework done. Newbies. :sigh: Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Third, if you can't even take a stab yourself at those questions and enter a possibly interesting dialog, then I come rapidly to the conclusion that you're just trolling to get your homework done.
Funny. I suppose I am not as jaded as I used to be. I just thought she was a young developer having a bit of an existential crisis :). Now I fear that I have feed the troll :-O
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
This answer depends entirely on how much time you have to write one or the other. :) If you are pressed for time then in most cases OO flies out the window along with requirements, your vacation, weekends and hot meals with your significant other.
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
Julia4u wrote:
Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ?
A framework does not need OO. See the countless functional languages. Components on the other hand normally requires encapsulation, and carrying state information, that could possibly change. This is more inline with OO, but OO is still not strictly required.
xacc.ide - now with IronScheme support
IronScheme - 1.0 alpha 2 out now -
Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
There are many ways to look at the question. Object orientation was designed as a way to partition development and make changes in one part without affecting others. Frameworks, on the other hand, don't typically require that because frameworks as a rule typically don't change much (you can add to them, but existing designs don't change). That means OO doesn't apply as much to frameworks because the problems that OO was designed for are not as relevant. Components, on the other hand, are almost exclusively Object oriented, and typically rely heavily on concepts involving extension (inheritance, polymorphism, specialization, etc..) This is probably not what your college professor had in mind though when he assigned this to you.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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In what context are you asking this ? It makes no sense to me, at all. Why would OO apply more to one than the other ? I guess if your framework is written in C, but otherwise... If your framework is not OO, then the component you write with it ( I assume this is what you mean ) cannot be, right ? And if your framework IS OO, you'd have to work hard to write code with it that was not OO at all, right ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
Christian Graus wrote:
In what context are you asking this ?
You stupid bloody Tasmanian bastard. It's a girl asking a question here on Code Project, you should be falling all over yourself to try and provide her an answer. That way when work finds you over in Ireland, you know you'll and a root for sure. That's the way it's meant to work isn't it?
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004