Definition of Marriage gets Debated in California
-
Tim Craig wrote:
Who has the legal say to make decisions for the other if they become incapacitated.
And right now, my sister holds my power of attorney. If for some reason I wanted to revoke it, 'twould be much cheaper than a divorce. However your point is larger than that, methinks. And I agree that there are advantages granted by the state and by custom to married couples from having automatic access to each other in hospitals to being able to insure each other at work to having a readily available sexual partner. But they are not the point of marriage. Take this advantage away, or that, or all, and marriage would still have its raison d'etre.
Tim Craig wrote:
Many heterosexual couples don't have children these days, should their marriages be dissolved?
Not if my opinion were to count - which it doesn't. ;) One of the really cool things about humans is that they can invent purposes to give meaning to their own lives. I'm talking about the societal purpose of marriage only. Even if a couple has children, these days, they will, if they stay married, spend many years together after the children are grown. They'll need to invent their own purpose, too I would note that in many societies, the inability to have conceive is grounds for divorce, although in the U.S. there's been a change in the last 30 years so its more likely to be failure to notify the partner before the marriage, of the inability to conceive.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
My take is that the objection to gay marriage is religious which means they're using religion to define marriage. If that's the case, it's automatically excluded from governmental influence. States just get out of the marriage business altogether. If they decide stable unions are an advantage, then they go the civil union route and tell the churches to mind their own business. Churches are free to perform marriages but they carry no weight with the state unless you register them as a civil union. You want a ceremony to go with the civil union, get it at city hall.
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
-
My take is that the objection to gay marriage is religious which means they're using religion to define marriage. If that's the case, it's automatically excluded from governmental influence. States just get out of the marriage business altogether. If they decide stable unions are an advantage, then they go the civil union route and tell the churches to mind their own business. Churches are free to perform marriages but they carry no weight with the state unless you register them as a civil union. You want a ceremony to go with the civil union, get it at city hall.
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
Tim Craig wrote:
States just get out of the marriage business altogether
Back when Romney and I both lived in Massachusetts and he was trying to amend the state Constitution to make gay marriage illegal, I proposed much the same thing. There is certainly no reason to tell some old parish priest that he has to marry two men, or two divorced heteros or whatever makes him think he'll burn in hellfire forever. (Why any God worth the name would give a damn is a thread in its own right, but there are plenty of well-meaning folk who have convinced themselves they know He would.) All that has to happen is that we remove any "power invested in me by the state" from the windup of his spiel and he can marry only those he feels like doing. But, as you say, the state would consider them shacking up until they registered at City Hall - which wouldn't be all that different than getting a license today, except that it would immediately convey all the benefits that right now are associated with the word "Marriage" without benefit of clergy: bada-bing, bada-bang. Funny thing is that is exactly the way I got married. My blushing, beautiful and buxom bride-to-be and I were supposed to take a plane from Boston to Orlando on a Tuesday night and get the marriage license on Wednesday so we could be married on Saturday (3 day waiting period). Unfortunately, Boston got snowed in and we didn't arrive until Friday. :omg: Since about half the retired air force colonels and generals in the state of Florida were planning on attending, the schedule did not change. We were still "married" by her parents' favorite Baptist minister on Saturday, still went to Disneyworld for our "honeymoon," but then, when we came back, we went through a quickie ceremony with same minister who this time added the words about "invested by the state," thus making us legal. As far as I know, God did not strike him dead for faking it earlier. Essentially we got married one week and contracted a civil union the following week.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
On MercuryNews.com[^] You wouldn't believe how ridiculous the arguments against same-sex "marriage" are—especially the ones made by the protesters.
So the creationist says: Everything must have a designer. God designed everything. I say: Why is God the only exception? Why not make the "designs" (like man) exceptions and make God a creation of man?
modified on Tuesday, March 4, 2008 9:30 PM
Traditional marriage exists to chain a man down and make him a responsible tax paying member of society. Quite how this is relevant to gays I dont know, since they dont have the responsibility of family, so why on earth would they want it other than to have the same tax breaks and protection in law.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
-
On MercuryNews.com[^] You wouldn't believe how ridiculous the arguments against same-sex "marriage" are—especially the ones made by the protesters.
So the creationist says: Everything must have a designer. God designed everything. I say: Why is God the only exception? Why not make the "designs" (like man) exceptions and make God a creation of man?
modified on Tuesday, March 4, 2008 9:30 PM
Who the hell cares if 2 people (of whatever sex) choose to get married? Why is it anyone else's business? What harm are they doing? Once again one person trying to tell another how to live based on their own narrow world view.
-
On MercuryNews.com[^] You wouldn't believe how ridiculous the arguments against same-sex "marriage" are—especially the ones made by the protesters.
So the creationist says: Everything must have a designer. God designed everything. I say: Why is God the only exception? Why not make the "designs" (like man) exceptions and make God a creation of man?
modified on Tuesday, March 4, 2008 9:30 PM
A marriage is a holy function. It makes a guy unite with a girl in service to the Lord. At least in the Hindu scriptures, there are four stages of life. The first one is 'Brahmacharya', 'Grihasta'. Wedding indicates joining into the second stage of life. The other two stages ('Vanaprastha' and 'Sanyasa') come during older age. I also would like to share an article which speaks about the good facts about marriage and about restricted and religiously-allowed sex habits: www.trsiyengar.com/id46.shtml[^]
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson -
A marriage is a holy function. It makes a guy unite with a girl in service to the Lord. At least in the Hindu scriptures, there are four stages of life. The first one is 'Brahmacharya', 'Grihasta'. Wedding indicates joining into the second stage of life. The other two stages ('Vanaprastha' and 'Sanyasa') come during older age. I also would like to share an article which speaks about the good facts about marriage and about restricted and religiously-allowed sex habits: www.trsiyengar.com/id46.shtml[^]
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis LevinsonVasudevan Deepak K wrote:
A marriage is a holy function. It makes a guy unite with a girl in service to the Lord. At least in the Hindu scriptures, there are four stages of life.
Very well said VDK. :) It is a holy function for human in "Grihastashram". I think marriage makes two souls together forever. :-O Five from me.... Regards.
"Save water,It's precious" :) "Don't forget to vote" ;) ;P ;)
-
Tim Craig wrote:
States just get out of the marriage business altogether
Back when Romney and I both lived in Massachusetts and he was trying to amend the state Constitution to make gay marriage illegal, I proposed much the same thing. There is certainly no reason to tell some old parish priest that he has to marry two men, or two divorced heteros or whatever makes him think he'll burn in hellfire forever. (Why any God worth the name would give a damn is a thread in its own right, but there are plenty of well-meaning folk who have convinced themselves they know He would.) All that has to happen is that we remove any "power invested in me by the state" from the windup of his spiel and he can marry only those he feels like doing. But, as you say, the state would consider them shacking up until they registered at City Hall - which wouldn't be all that different than getting a license today, except that it would immediately convey all the benefits that right now are associated with the word "Marriage" without benefit of clergy: bada-bing, bada-bang. Funny thing is that is exactly the way I got married. My blushing, beautiful and buxom bride-to-be and I were supposed to take a plane from Boston to Orlando on a Tuesday night and get the marriage license on Wednesday so we could be married on Saturday (3 day waiting period). Unfortunately, Boston got snowed in and we didn't arrive until Friday. :omg: Since about half the retired air force colonels and generals in the state of Florida were planning on attending, the schedule did not change. We were still "married" by her parents' favorite Baptist minister on Saturday, still went to Disneyworld for our "honeymoon," but then, when we came back, we went through a quickie ceremony with same minister who this time added the words about "invested by the state," thus making us legal. As far as I know, God did not strike him dead for faking it earlier. Essentially we got married one week and contracted a civil union the following week.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
Oakman wrote:
and contracted a civil union
When I first read that, my thought was you were talking about contracting as in a disease. :laugh:
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
Tim Craig wrote:
When I first read that, my thought was you were talking about contracting as in a disease
I have been veddy, veddy lucky. The only contracting I've done has required a signature, not a hypodermic. . . . Well, except for the Asian Flu. I think her name was Su Lee. . .
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
Vasudevan Deepak K wrote:
A marriage is a holy function. It makes a guy unite with a girl in service to the Lord. At least in the Hindu scriptures, there are four stages of life.
Very well said VDK. :) It is a holy function for human in "Grihastashram". I think marriage makes two souls together forever. :-O Five from me.... Regards.
"Save water,It's precious" :) "Don't forget to vote" ;) ;P ;)
Cosmo Thought wrote:
I think marriage makes two souls together forever. Five from me....
Then why do get people divorced? As they get divorced, do their souls too get divorced? One from me...
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
-
A marriage is a holy function. It makes a guy unite with a girl in service to the Lord. At least in the Hindu scriptures, there are four stages of life. The first one is 'Brahmacharya', 'Grihasta'. Wedding indicates joining into the second stage of life. The other two stages ('Vanaprastha' and 'Sanyasa') come during older age. I also would like to share an article which speaks about the good facts about marriage and about restricted and religiously-allowed sex habits: www.trsiyengar.com/id46.shtml[^]
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis LevinsonVasudevan Deepak K wrote:
A marriage is a holy function. It makes a guy unite with a girl in service to the Lord.
Marriage is in service to the lord? Just WTF VDK? It becomes very difficult to understand you at times.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
-
A marriage is a holy function. It makes a guy unite with a girl in service to the Lord. At least in the Hindu scriptures, there are four stages of life. The first one is 'Brahmacharya', 'Grihasta'. Wedding indicates joining into the second stage of life. The other two stages ('Vanaprastha' and 'Sanyasa') come during older age. I also would like to share an article which speaks about the good facts about marriage and about restricted and religiously-allowed sex habits: www.trsiyengar.com/id46.shtml[^]
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis LevinsonWhat utter nonsense. People get married for all sorts of reasons and they are not always religious in nature and not everyone who gets married is Hindu or even believes in a god. And then the bitch leaves and... oh shit, wrong thread... :laugh:
-
Cosmo Thought wrote:
I think marriage makes two souls together forever. Five from me....
Then why do get people divorced? As they get divorced, do their souls too get divorced? One from me...
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
because their love for each other is no more. so they get divorced. And I think marriage is only for that people who can love someone. Not just give and take relationship....
"Save water,It's precious" :) "Don't forget to vote" ;) ;P ;)
-
A marriage is a holy function. It makes a guy unite with a girl in service to the Lord. At least in the Hindu scriptures, there are four stages of life. The first one is 'Brahmacharya', 'Grihasta'. Wedding indicates joining into the second stage of life. The other two stages ('Vanaprastha' and 'Sanyasa') come during older age. I also would like to share an article which speaks about the good facts about marriage and about restricted and religiously-allowed sex habits: www.trsiyengar.com/id46.shtml[^]
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis LevinsonVasudevan Deepak K wrote:
I also would like to share an article which speaks about the good facts about marriage and about restricted and religiously-allowed sex habits:
"ONLY FOR CHILDREN - Sex should be used only in marriage for begetting nice, good children. Good children means not rogues and thieves, but one who can understand God. Krsna says in the Bhagavad-Gita that I am sex life performed according to religious principles. Sex life for any other purpose means illicit sex. The use of contraceptive method for sex enjoyment is very sinful." Sorry VDK, but this guy neeeds to be either gagged or shot -- or both.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
A marriage is a holy function. It makes a guy unite with a girl in service to the Lord. At least in the Hindu scriptures, there are four stages of life. The first one is 'Brahmacharya', 'Grihasta'. Wedding indicates joining into the second stage of life. The other two stages ('Vanaprastha' and 'Sanyasa') come during older age. I also would like to share an article which speaks about the good facts about marriage and about restricted and religiously-allowed sex habits: www.trsiyengar.com/id46.shtml[^]
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis LevinsonVasudevan Deepak K wrote:
A marriage is a holy function.
Says who?
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
-
Cosmo Thought wrote:
I think marriage makes two souls together forever. Five from me....
Then why do get people divorced? As they get divorced, do their souls too get divorced? One from me...
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Then why do get people divorced?
Divorce, as I would see, would be just momentary disappointment between the two minds.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
As they get divorced, do their souls too get divorced?
Never. At least, within the viewable age of this world, till the last breath of the two, the Love would cherish their names and vice-versa. If you had watched the film ("Chachi 320") or its Tamil remake ("Avvai Shanmughi") there is a scene where Kamalahassan would speak about his life (in the movie) and the divorce that he suffered with the heroine. He used to comment "The law can only physically separate the two people not mentally. I still love her. I am still with her. She only till now has not realised it.". The heroine who was listening to the speech which was actually an interview with a reporter would break into tears because of her momentary disappointments that she nurtured for him.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson -
because their love for each other is no more. so they get divorced. And I think marriage is only for that people who can love someone. Not just give and take relationship....
"Save water,It's precious" :) "Don't forget to vote" ;) ;P ;)
Some marriages end in divorce, because those marriages haven't ultimately united those souls. It is not marriage which unites two souls, it is love, which does that. Marriages may have a great role to play in India, but that still is for the society.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
-
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Then why do get people divorced?
Divorce, as I would see, would be just momentary disappointment between the two minds.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
As they get divorced, do their souls too get divorced?
Never. At least, within the viewable age of this world, till the last breath of the two, the Love would cherish their names and vice-versa. If you had watched the film ("Chachi 320") or its Tamil remake ("Avvai Shanmughi") there is a scene where Kamalahassan would speak about his life (in the movie) and the divorce that he suffered with the heroine. He used to comment "The law can only physically separate the two people not mentally. I still love her. I am still with her. She only till now has not realised it.". The heroine who was listening to the speech which was actually an interview with a reporter would break into tears because of her momentary disappointments that she nurtured for him.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis LevinsonPlease avoid answering sarcastic questions in great detail. :)
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
-
Vasudevan Deepak K wrote:
A marriage is a holy function. It makes a guy unite with a girl in service to the Lord.
Marriage is in service to the lord? Just WTF VDK? It becomes very difficult to understand you at times.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Marriage is in service to the lord?
Did you check this URL? http://www.trsiyengar.com/id46.shtml[^]
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson -
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Marriage is in service to the lord?
Did you check this URL? http://www.trsiyengar.com/id46.shtml[^]
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis LevinsonI did.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
-
Some marriages end in divorce, because those marriages haven't ultimately united those souls. It is not marriage which unites two souls, it is love, which does that. Marriages may have a great role to play in India, but that still is for the society.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
. It is not marriage which unites two souls, it is love, which does that.
Right. :) And if two persons love each other then and then they get married. If there is not love then no marriage and if no marriage then no divorce. :laugh: From my point of view marriage is nothing but promise (ethical and of course legally) to each other. If person has wrong intentions then there is no need of talking about this...
"Save water,It's precious" :) "Don't forget to vote" ;) ;P ;)