Why Vista sucks
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...for my parents. My parents got a new laptop which has Vista installed. The want to download a sidebar gadget because they want to play with the cool new Vista stuff. (Does someone at the Live.com gadget gallery think that maybe, just maybe, a "Search" option would help in that gallery?) So they eventually find a gadget, hit download, and the Save As dialog appears. Up the top is "> Username > Downloads". They aren't familiar with downloads and just want to save it to Desktop. So they click that address box (by clicking on the 'Downloads' part) and nothing happens. so they click the down-arrow at the end and the address changes to "C:\Users\Username\Downloads" plus other options below it, such as http://www.codeproject.com, nytimes and skype. This is the 'Save As' dialog. They are trying to save a download to the desktop. They are, as far as they can tell, being offered a chance to save the download to CodeProject.com. Eventually it's worked out that the 'Browse Folders' button at the bottom will show them the desktop folder and they can save. I don't even bother making excuses or trying to explain this kind of behaviour any more. I just say "Let me know if you want me to wipe it and get you a copy of XP". Vista is meant to be easier and it's not. It's not a matter of getting used to a new UI. It's a matter of old UI behaviour being wrapped and hidden by extra layers of superfluous UI.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I've seen that before in some office applications. Letting a usability blunder like that (offering options that make no sense) that affects ALL users infect a standard system component is not a typical microsoft fuckup. I've groaned and screamed at the pampering that is uspposed to help your parents, and makes my job harder. At least it was "with a plan".
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
...for my parents. My parents got a new laptop which has Vista installed. The want to download a sidebar gadget because they want to play with the cool new Vista stuff. (Does someone at the Live.com gadget gallery think that maybe, just maybe, a "Search" option would help in that gallery?) So they eventually find a gadget, hit download, and the Save As dialog appears. Up the top is "> Username > Downloads". They aren't familiar with downloads and just want to save it to Desktop. So they click that address box (by clicking on the 'Downloads' part) and nothing happens. so they click the down-arrow at the end and the address changes to "C:\Users\Username\Downloads" plus other options below it, such as http://www.codeproject.com, nytimes and skype. This is the 'Save As' dialog. They are trying to save a download to the desktop. They are, as far as they can tell, being offered a chance to save the download to CodeProject.com. Eventually it's worked out that the 'Browse Folders' button at the bottom will show them the desktop folder and they can save. I don't even bother making excuses or trying to explain this kind of behaviour any more. I just say "Let me know if you want me to wipe it and get you a copy of XP". Vista is meant to be easier and it's not. It's not a matter of getting used to a new UI. It's a matter of old UI behaviour being wrapped and hidden by extra layers of superfluous UI.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Maybe something is wrong with me. But I really like Vista. ( I might be the only one ) For example. My dad got Vista on his new computer he got last year and it have saved ME a lot of work trying to fix the system. Since he is a click on everything guy. So when he is trying to delete\move files that he should not delete or change something he should not. He will now be presented with a UAC dialog but since he is running a standard user he can't just click "Okey". He needs to enter a password and he know that if he needs to enter that, Then he done something bad. And the "Previous Version" feature have saved him a lot of times because he often opens an old document and use it as a template when writing a new one and often he forget to do "save as" and he overwrites his old document. But now he can retrieve it fast with doing "previous version" on the folder. But I have to admit that It took me a day to show him how all the new stuff worked, And now when he been using it for some month and got used to it, I get less support calls from him then when he was running XP. But not everything is good with Vista. For example the new explorer was not my friend for a while. It took some time to get used to. ------ A satisfied Vista user.
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I bought it by choice and it works 10 times better than XP.
I may be Green, but at least I'm environmentally friendly.
It is obvious from other responses that not all feel that way. Not offering XP is just a way to ensure wider Vista adoption. I have a feeling that users may latch on to the any available alternative if MS continues with this policy. If a software that is critical to my business runs on XP, I want to buy a new machine with XP. Just being unsure whether the software will run on Vista gives me enough reason not to buy it. MS should have offered XP for at least a couple of more years until users became comfortable with Vista.
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Vista has a more professional business style UI. They did that to get rid of the cartoonish XP. However, there really has never been a user friendly OS for the under-educated. When you were a teenager learning to drive you took a class to help. There are tutorials for all new OS that come out to help with the change. Unless there is a profound change in the actual computer itself and how it operates then this will continue to be the case and people will rant and rave until the old OS goes away for good (as did win 95,98,ME, etc.)
I may be Green, but at least I'm environmentally friendly.
However, I feel that OSX is friendlier for a new user than Windows. Again, it is a matter of opinion. This issue has more to do with withdrawing XP as a pre-bundled option on home PCs and most business PCs. Some software do not work well on Vista, and needs changes. There are many businesses who did not think that it is a priority. Now, they are stuck with possible license problems, if they downgraded to XP.
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Well, Agree 1000 % I would not be worried about Vista, My software has neither Use nor Need for it, if it were not for the fact that Microsoft has decided to forcefeed us all with Vista, seeing that people are reluctant to buy it voluntarily. One wonders why people shun it. Existing Applications Fail because newly introduced or newly enforced rules, and, maybe there is a case for it all in Corporate America. (I always look in disbelieve at the NewRiders Series, where they mention a Small subsidiary having only 15000 Computers). In Europe, bar a few Notable exceptions, a company having 50 computers would be very large indeed. The businesses I deal with have mostly only one, some have two, but five would be the maximum. Security Policies and all that sort of crap is something to us here that seems to have been written in cloud cooko land. All those complicated security systems are at best an overkill, and at worst a terrible nuisance that you may spend hours on to eradicate from a new system. Windows XP was ideal. It actually worked as Specified, and Recommended (but did not Enforce) the Build for XP Standard. I have been advised by my own legal team that the likely outcome could well be that Buying Vista Pre Installed, and overwriting it with a Counterfit Copy of XP may be quite accepable under European law, on the grounds that: 1. Microsoft does Not loose Out financially because Vista is Paid for, 2. Microsoft provided a Product,(XP) on a wide scale, many products provided by businesses not controlled by microsoft rely for its Marketabiliy On the availability of XP on New Machines) 3. The Alternative Provided by Microsoft does Not provide Full Compatibility (i.e. Code will Break) 4 Microsoft Stopped selling XP. 5. Given Microsoft's Market Dominance, the Stopping of Selling XP and replacing it with an incompatible product would be seen as an act of abusing their dominant position, and any act that smaller entities take to protect their position in the face of this, (such as passing on Counterfit Copies of Windows XP in order to keep Software going) would be seen by the courts as a fair response in the face of adversary practice by a Dominant Market Force
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
In Europe, bar a few Notable exceptions, a company having 50 computers would be very large indeed.
A few exceptions? I wouldn't call a medium sized business of 100-400 staff "very large indeed". I've dealt with quite a few companies of that size in the past few years, and believe me they are pretty commonplace in the UK.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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...for my parents. My parents got a new laptop which has Vista installed. The want to download a sidebar gadget because they want to play with the cool new Vista stuff. (Does someone at the Live.com gadget gallery think that maybe, just maybe, a "Search" option would help in that gallery?) So they eventually find a gadget, hit download, and the Save As dialog appears. Up the top is "> Username > Downloads". They aren't familiar with downloads and just want to save it to Desktop. So they click that address box (by clicking on the 'Downloads' part) and nothing happens. so they click the down-arrow at the end and the address changes to "C:\Users\Username\Downloads" plus other options below it, such as http://www.codeproject.com, nytimes and skype. This is the 'Save As' dialog. They are trying to save a download to the desktop. They are, as far as they can tell, being offered a chance to save the download to CodeProject.com. Eventually it's worked out that the 'Browse Folders' button at the bottom will show them the desktop folder and they can save. I don't even bother making excuses or trying to explain this kind of behaviour any more. I just say "Let me know if you want me to wipe it and get you a copy of XP". Vista is meant to be easier and it's not. It's not a matter of getting used to a new UI. It's a matter of old UI behaviour being wrapped and hidden by extra layers of superfluous UI.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
so they click the down-arrow at the end and the address changes to "C:\Users\Username\Downloads" plus other options below it, such as http://www.codeproject.com, nytimes and skype.
Your parents hang out on CP? Cool! :cool: :laugh:
Cheers, Vikram.
Zeppelin's law: In any Soapbox discussion involving Stan Shannon, the probability of the term "leftist" or "Marxist" appearing approaches 1 monotonically. Harris' addendum: I think you meant "monotonously". Martin's second addendum: Jeffersonian... I think that should at least get a mention.
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Yeah, but Dad's a big video game addict. Like son, like Father...
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Yeah, but Dad's a big video game addict.
Well, that pretty much invalidates the suggestion to "try Linux". :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
...for my parents. My parents got a new laptop which has Vista installed. The want to download a sidebar gadget because they want to play with the cool new Vista stuff. (Does someone at the Live.com gadget gallery think that maybe, just maybe, a "Search" option would help in that gallery?) So they eventually find a gadget, hit download, and the Save As dialog appears. Up the top is "> Username > Downloads". They aren't familiar with downloads and just want to save it to Desktop. So they click that address box (by clicking on the 'Downloads' part) and nothing happens. so they click the down-arrow at the end and the address changes to "C:\Users\Username\Downloads" plus other options below it, such as http://www.codeproject.com, nytimes and skype. This is the 'Save As' dialog. They are trying to save a download to the desktop. They are, as far as they can tell, being offered a chance to save the download to CodeProject.com. Eventually it's worked out that the 'Browse Folders' button at the bottom will show them the desktop folder and they can save. I don't even bother making excuses or trying to explain this kind of behaviour any more. I just say "Let me know if you want me to wipe it and get you a copy of XP". Vista is meant to be easier and it's not. It's not a matter of getting used to a new UI. It's a matter of old UI behaviour being wrapped and hidden by extra layers of superfluous UI.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Vista has too much crap in it. At least we can turn off the UAC and get rid of that stupid eye-candy crap. However, the file manager sucks. I hate it. I agree with what someone else said - we need a switch labeled "Make it look and work like XP".
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
That's as scary as my mother showing up in the gym I work out in. It's damned weird when you realize the little gray haired lady on the treadmill a couple of machines down is your mom.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
That's as scary as my mother showing up in the gym I work out in. It's damned weird when you realize the little gray haired lady on the treadmill a couple of machines down is your mom.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]and that she's doing better than you.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
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and that she's doing better than you.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
Well, not yet. She is pretty competitive, however :-D.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
Vista has too much crap in it. At least we can turn off the UAC and get rid of that stupid eye-candy crap. However, the file manager sucks. I hate it. I agree with what someone else said - we need a switch labeled "Make it look and work like XP".
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
we need a switch labeled "Make it look and work like XP".
Once you switch the eye candy and the security nanny off, what's left in Vista that you don't have in XP? I've not used Vista yet, as we're not targeting it at work and my home machine is so old it couldn't run it.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
...for my parents. My parents got a new laptop which has Vista installed. The want to download a sidebar gadget because they want to play with the cool new Vista stuff. (Does someone at the Live.com gadget gallery think that maybe, just maybe, a "Search" option would help in that gallery?) So they eventually find a gadget, hit download, and the Save As dialog appears. Up the top is "> Username > Downloads". They aren't familiar with downloads and just want to save it to Desktop. So they click that address box (by clicking on the 'Downloads' part) and nothing happens. so they click the down-arrow at the end and the address changes to "C:\Users\Username\Downloads" plus other options below it, such as http://www.codeproject.com, nytimes and skype. This is the 'Save As' dialog. They are trying to save a download to the desktop. They are, as far as they can tell, being offered a chance to save the download to CodeProject.com. Eventually it's worked out that the 'Browse Folders' button at the bottom will show them the desktop folder and they can save. I don't even bother making excuses or trying to explain this kind of behaviour any more. I just say "Let me know if you want me to wipe it and get you a copy of XP". Vista is meant to be easier and it's not. It's not a matter of getting used to a new UI. It's a matter of old UI behaviour being wrapped and hidden by extra layers of superfluous UI.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Maybe something is wrong with me. But I really like Vista. ( I might be the only one ) For example. My dad got Vista on his new computer he got last year and it have saved ME a lot of work trying to fix the system. Since he is a click on everything guy. So when he is trying to delete\move files that he should not delete or change something he should not. He will now be presented with a UAC dialog but since he is running a standard user he can't just click "Okey". He needs to enter a password and he know that if he needs to enter that, Then he done something bad. And the "Previous Version" feature have saved him a lot of times because he often opens an old document and use it as a template when writing a new one and often he forget to do "save as" and he overwrites his old document. But now he can retrieve it fast with doing "previous version" on the folder. But I have to admit that It took me a day to show him how all the new stuff worked, And now when he been using it for some month and got used to it, I get less support calls from him then when he was running XP. But not everything is good with Vista. For example the new explorer was not my friend for a while. It took some time to get used to. ------ A satisfied Vista user.
I think the core problem with Vista is that "if it runs it runs fine, but if it fails, it fails badly".
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
we need a switch labeled "Make it look and work like XP".
Once you switch the eye candy and the security nanny off, what's left in Vista that you don't have in XP? I've not used Vista yet, as we're not targeting it at work and my home machine is so old it couldn't run it.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
Once you switch the eye candy and the security nanny off, what's left in Vista that you don't have in XP?
An operating system that still has support from it's manufacturer and hardware manufacturers. You can't argue the fact that XP will eventually go the way of Win2K. Eventually, XP support will fade away. I'd love to run XP/64, but how can I if none of the new hardware coming out will have drivers? My new laptop is a fine example. I can find drivers for XP32, Vista32, and Vista64, but nothing for XP64. That pretty much eliminates that OS from consideration if I want to fully exploit my laptop's hardware.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Maybe something is wrong with me. But I really like Vista. ( I might be the only one ) For example. My dad got Vista on his new computer he got last year and it have saved ME a lot of work trying to fix the system. Since he is a click on everything guy. So when he is trying to delete\move files that he should not delete or change something he should not. He will now be presented with a UAC dialog but since he is running a standard user he can't just click "Okey". He needs to enter a password and he know that if he needs to enter that, Then he done something bad. And the "Previous Version" feature have saved him a lot of times because he often opens an old document and use it as a template when writing a new one and often he forget to do "save as" and he overwrites his old document. But now he can retrieve it fast with doing "previous version" on the folder. But I have to admit that It took me a day to show him how all the new stuff worked, And now when he been using it for some month and got used to it, I get less support calls from him then when he was running XP. But not everything is good with Vista. For example the new explorer was not my friend for a while. It took some time to get used to. ------ A satisfied Vista user.
Great in theory, and this is exactly how Microsoft wants it to be used. But it's not how Vista Home Premium came setup on his HP. He's running as the only user on the machine and he has admin rights. UAC pops up and he clicks 'OK' like he's been trained to click OK to everything 'Allow a cookie to be saved?' OK 'Allow this application to run?' OK 'Allow this installer to install a rootkit, key word logger, spamware, mallware, mail forwarder full spam zombie setup and worm factory?' *click* OK.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Vista has a more professional business style UI. They did that to get rid of the cartoonish XP. However, there really has never been a user friendly OS for the under-educated. When you were a teenager learning to drive you took a class to help. There are tutorials for all new OS that come out to help with the change. Unless there is a profound change in the actual computer itself and how it operates then this will continue to be the case and people will rant and rave until the old OS goes away for good (as did win 95,98,ME, etc.)
I may be Green, but at least I'm environmentally friendly.
justfunnin wrote:
Vista has a more professional business style UI. They did that to get rid of the cartoonish XP.
I never had a problem with the look of XP. OTOH I do like the look of Vista and the latest Vista-style Windows Live apps. they've been producing.
Kevin
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I think it's bad when a company has a product that is so bad that even advocates complain about, and yet we all will eventually be forced to use it. MS just has too much power
I honestly cannot see anything that is going to force me to move to Vista in the next 18-24 months, the timeframe for Windows 7. I'm buying a Mac for home and will be running parallels so if Microsoft brings out a 'Oh My God I Must Have That" application I'll run it under parallels. And if Windows 7 is just too plain horrible for words, or is a mess, or there's something way better than Windows 7 out there that the industry is moving to because of increased productivity, usefulness, or just a "It's time for a change" then I'll be flexible and move along too. I truly do hope, though,that before Windows 7 gets too far along Microsoft goes into the room of mirrors, sits down, and has a good, hard look.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Marc goes where angels fear to tread... I'm just going to close that message and move on. Nothing to see...
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
