Microsoft to work with Eclipse on Java
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I actually rather like the existing Eclipse tool and the associated framework. I was forced, kicking and screaming, into using Eclipse when I used to work for IBM (I sometimes wonder how the friendly folk in India are getting on with my job). I grew to really like the Eclipse IDE. Whoever is in control of the Eclipse "project" must have had a great vision and carried it through the whole range of players associated with it and with significantly tight discipline. Also impressive is the range of spawned projects/ tools and even completely new "Applications" i.e "Eclipse Trader" and others. IMHO very neat stuff indeedy. So if the Eclipse project team and MS can both benefit from this that'd be great to me.
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
Peter Hayward wrote:
Eclipse Trader
That's a freaking awesome use of Eclipse. :omg:
You have, what I would term, a very formal turn of phrase not seen in these isles since the old King passed from this world to the next. martin_hughes on VDK
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Sad
I will not call it sad just because a console app launches 7 threads:)
You have, what I would term, a very formal turn of phrase not seen in these isles since the old King passed from this world to the next. martin_hughes on VDK
LOL! :) Yeah I'm unusually down on Java right now. But it (apparently) turns out that it's actually not Java's fault, as opposed to incompetent 3rd party developers.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Peter Hayward wrote:
Eclipse Trader
That's a freaking awesome use of Eclipse. :omg:
You have, what I would term, a very formal turn of phrase not seen in these isles since the old King passed from this world to the next. martin_hughes on VDK
Interesting! I wonder how it fares on the other platforms.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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I actually rather like the existing Eclipse tool and the associated framework. I was forced, kicking and screaming, into using Eclipse when I used to work for IBM (I sometimes wonder how the friendly folk in India are getting on with my job). I grew to really like the Eclipse IDE. Whoever is in control of the Eclipse "project" must have had a great vision and carried it through the whole range of players associated with it and with significantly tight discipline. Also impressive is the range of spawned projects/ tools and even completely new "Applications" i.e "Eclipse Trader" and others. IMHO very neat stuff indeedy. So if the Eclipse project team and MS can both benefit from this that'd be great to me.
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
I'd agree that Eclipse is certainly an interesting project. And it runs much better than most other Java apps, certainly it looks and feels much more "native" than anything written with Swing or AWT.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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"The goal of the joint work, which will include contributions from Microsoft engineers, is to make it easier to use Java to write applications that take full advantage of the look and feel of Windows" :omg: http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9898168-7.html[^]
To Quote Serious Sam:
Serious Sam said:
They always said two heads are better than one, but how does it f*rt?
Well, we'll have to wait and see.
Mostly, when you see programmers, they aren't doing anything. One of the attractive things about programmers is that you cannot tell whether or not they are working simply by looking at them. Very often they're sitting there seemingly drinking coffee and gossiping, or just staring into space. What the programmer is trying to do is get a handle on all the individual and unrelated ideas that are scampering around in his head. (Charles M Strauss)
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"The goal of the joint work, which will include contributions from Microsoft engineers, is to make it easier to use Java to write applications that take full advantage of the look and feel of Windows" :omg: http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9898168-7.html[^]
I LOVE JAVA. I wish I could get more contract in Java. If MS would have better supported Java and worked with Sun more cooperatively in the 90's my life would be perfect. I still regret turning down that contract to write software for a satellite for a higher paying .NET business application contract.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway -
The Wizard of Doze wrote:
"The goal of the joint work, which will include contributions from Microsoft engineers, is to make it easier to use Java to write applications that take full advantage of the look and feel of Windows"
WTF? I mean, why don't these folks just use C# or (erk) VB.NET? Why don't they use C++ and MFC? Can't we let Java die, please??? Marc
If you believe the Tiobe Index[^] (I'm skeptical), Java isn't going away anytime soon. Java is 2x VB and 5x C#. Providing Java developers a path to MS technology makes me think that MS believes the index has some validity. "At the end of the day, it's all about the developer." :)
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Ask a Java programmer and he will say can't we let C# and VB dies?:) Or he will ask why they exist in the first place? Java is not going to die in the enetrprise world. SAP/Oracle/IBM/Webmethods to name a few are very actively using Java.
You have, what I would term, a very formal turn of phrase not seen in these isles since the old King passed from this world to the next. martin_hughes on VDK
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I actually rather like the existing Eclipse tool and the associated framework. I was forced, kicking and screaming, into using Eclipse when I used to work for IBM (I sometimes wonder how the friendly folk in India are getting on with my job). I grew to really like the Eclipse IDE. Whoever is in control of the Eclipse "project" must have had a great vision and carried it through the whole range of players associated with it and with significantly tight discipline. Also impressive is the range of spawned projects/ tools and even completely new "Applications" i.e "Eclipse Trader" and others. IMHO very neat stuff indeedy. So if the Eclipse project team and MS can both benefit from this that'd be great to me.
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
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I LOVE JAVA. I wish I could get more contract in Java. If MS would have better supported Java and worked with Sun more cooperatively in the 90's my life would be perfect. I still regret turning down that contract to write software for a satellite for a higher paying .NET business application contract.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest HemingwayThat's hillarious, I just bitched a few posts up about how my satellite receiver keeps locking up and blaming it on the use of Java and here you were nearly responsible for it. :)
"The pursuit of excellence is less profitable than the pursuit of bigness, but it can be more satisfying." - David Ogilvy
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Ask a Java programmer and he will say can't we let C# and VB dies?:) Or he will ask why they exist in the first place? Java is not going to die in the enetrprise world. SAP/Oracle/IBM/Webmethods to name a few are very actively using Java.
You have, what I would term, a very formal turn of phrase not seen in these isles since the old King passed from this world to the next. martin_hughes on VDK
Add to that that the going salary of a Java/LAMP developer is about 15% higher here in the Middle East because they are so rare. M$ has done a wonderful job at penetrating the market real early.
"Every time Lotus Notes starts up, somewhere a puppy, a kitten, a lamb, and a baby seal are killed. Lotus Notes is a conspiracy by the forces of Satan to drive us over the brink into madness. The CRC-32 for each file in the installation includes the numbers 666." Gary Wheeler "The secret to a long and healthy life is simple. Don't get ill and don't die." Pete O'Hanlon, courtesy of Rama "I realised that all of my best anecdotes started with "So there we were, pissed". Pete O'Hanlon
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They'd like to, but O'reilly have just scheduled another 20 books on Design Patterns in Java. :)
20 nos? So, they believe there will be 20 people to buy *that* book? ;P
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
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LOL! :) Yeah I'm unusually down on Java right now. But it (apparently) turns out that it's actually not Java's fault, as opposed to incompetent 3rd party developers.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
Jim Crafton wrote:
incompetent 3rd party developers.
Are we thinking the ones who need an abstract factory and 27 levels of abstraction for each class they have, even when it's used once and once only and will never change, the ones who appear to have eaten Design Patterns, 'cause there's a design pattern seeping out of every pore on their body? Yeah, that's not really Java's fault, but why does it attract so many of them?
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The Wizard of Doze wrote:
"The goal of the joint work, which will include contributions from Microsoft engineers, is to make it easier to use Java to write applications that take full advantage of the look and feel of Windows"
WTF? I mean, why don't these folks just use C# or (erk) VB.NET? Why don't they use C++ and MFC? Can't we let Java die, please??? Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Can't we let Java die, please???
I'm not really a fan of Java, but it comes in handy sometimes.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Photos/CP Flickr Group - ScrewTurn Wiki
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The Wizard of Doze wrote:
"The goal of the joint work, which will include contributions from Microsoft engineers, is to make it easier to use Java to write applications that take full advantage of the look and feel of Windows"
WTF? I mean, why don't these folks just use C# or (erk) VB.NET? Why don't they use C++ and MFC? Can't we let Java die, please??? Marc
I agree with Marc... Lets Java die and lets use one technology and make our life easier.
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The Wizard of Doze wrote:
"The goal of the joint work, which will include contributions from Microsoft engineers, is to make it easier to use Java to write applications that take full advantage of the look and feel of Windows"
WTF? I mean, why don't these folks just use C# or (erk) VB.NET? Why don't they use C++ and MFC? Can't we let Java die, please??? Marc
The price of Java is attractive in some people's eyes. Also, it's quite expensive to relearn a whole new platform.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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The Wizard of Doze wrote:
"The goal of the joint work, which will include contributions from Microsoft engineers, is to make it easier to use Java to write applications that take full advantage of the look and feel of Windows"
WTF? I mean, why don't these folks just use C# or (erk) VB.NET? Why don't they use C++ and MFC? Can't we let Java die, please??? Marc
The only noteworthy difference between Java and .NET is the parent company, but many people wouldn't touch anything created by Microsoft with a 10 meter pole.
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Jim Crafton wrote:
incompetent 3rd party developers.
Are we thinking the ones who need an abstract factory and 27 levels of abstraction for each class they have, even when it's used once and once only and will never change, the ones who appear to have eaten Design Patterns, 'cause there's a design pattern seeping out of every pore on their body? Yeah, that's not really Java's fault, but why does it attract so many of them?
Stuart Dootson wrote:
why does it attract so many of them?
Great steaming piles. Flies and maggots. Figure it out.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I LOVE JAVA. I wish I could get more contract in Java. If MS would have better supported Java and worked with Sun more cooperatively in the 90's my life would be perfect. I still regret turning down that contract to write software for a satellite for a higher paying .NET business application contract.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest HemingwayEnnis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
If MS would have better supported Java and worked with Sun more cooperatively in the 90's my life would be perfect.
Wow, talk about putting the cart before the horse! In 1998, Microsoft released Visual J++ 6.0 (actually version 2.0, but they synchronised all the version numbers for the Visual Studio 6.0 release). It included delegates, so you didn't have to build a whole class to access, J/Direct to access platform functions directly from Java, the ability to create and consume COM objects directly in Java, and a whole bunch of classes for using the native look-and-feel of Windows. At this point the COM people, who eventually begat .NET, were just about talking about what came after COM+ 1.0 on Windows 2000 (still a year from release). Sun sued Microsoft because Visual J++ wizards favoured creating code using the Windows Foundation Classes rather than the portable (but slow) Swing and AWT. They stopped MS from improving their JVM past JDK 1.1.2 (IIRC - certainly Java 1.2 and higher were never supported) and eventually the case was settled with Microsoft withdrawing all the products that included their JVM, and removing it from all the rest (an XP SP2 integrated CD does not include the Microsoft VM, or any Java VM). Sun could have saved ten years if they hadn't been idiots. They were too afraid of Windows being the best platform to develop Java apps for. Far from weakening Microsoft's position with Windows, they weakened Java's position because it wouldn't run out-of-the-box on Windows. The CLR and .NET probably wouldn't have happened if Sun hadn't sued.
DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991
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"The goal of the joint work, which will include contributions from Microsoft engineers, is to make it easier to use Java to write applications that take full advantage of the look and feel of Windows" :omg: http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9898168-7.html[^]
I think this is just another way to hurt Sun by Microsoft. Since Sun has fully devoted to promote netBeans IDE, now Microsoft came in to play by supporting Eclipse :) and I bet if Microsoft is going to develop/support an IDE, it'll be deadly killing. No one can beat Microsoft for their expertise in developing IDEs :-\ People think Microsoft will help for JAVA development, i think they are making room to penetrate C# development in an already established open source platform[so that they can promot .Net more powerfully on Linux under Mono perhaps :-\ ] I won't surprise to see a package for Eclipse to support Visual C#.Net development under Mono/Microsoft.Net that will definitely hurt both Sun and JAVA Borland splits to separate IDE generation department and formed CodeGear to concentrate on developing powerful IDEs but they came up with something that is even lower in performance and features to its ancestors [JBuilder 2007 had no visual designer for JSF :laugh: and it's based on Eclipse that has a Visual JSF Designer for FREE!!! :doh: ].
Syed Muhammad Fahad Application Development Tyler Technologies - TEMS Division