Microsoft to work with Eclipse on Java
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Jim Crafton wrote:
incompetent 3rd party developers.
Are we thinking the ones who need an abstract factory and 27 levels of abstraction for each class they have, even when it's used once and once only and will never change, the ones who appear to have eaten Design Patterns, 'cause there's a design pattern seeping out of every pore on their body? Yeah, that's not really Java's fault, but why does it attract so many of them?
Stuart Dootson wrote:
why does it attract so many of them?
Great steaming piles. Flies and maggots. Figure it out.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I LOVE JAVA. I wish I could get more contract in Java. If MS would have better supported Java and worked with Sun more cooperatively in the 90's my life would be perfect. I still regret turning down that contract to write software for a satellite for a higher paying .NET business application contract.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest HemingwayEnnis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
If MS would have better supported Java and worked with Sun more cooperatively in the 90's my life would be perfect.
Wow, talk about putting the cart before the horse! In 1998, Microsoft released Visual J++ 6.0 (actually version 2.0, but they synchronised all the version numbers for the Visual Studio 6.0 release). It included delegates, so you didn't have to build a whole class to access, J/Direct to access platform functions directly from Java, the ability to create and consume COM objects directly in Java, and a whole bunch of classes for using the native look-and-feel of Windows. At this point the COM people, who eventually begat .NET, were just about talking about what came after COM+ 1.0 on Windows 2000 (still a year from release). Sun sued Microsoft because Visual J++ wizards favoured creating code using the Windows Foundation Classes rather than the portable (but slow) Swing and AWT. They stopped MS from improving their JVM past JDK 1.1.2 (IIRC - certainly Java 1.2 and higher were never supported) and eventually the case was settled with Microsoft withdrawing all the products that included their JVM, and removing it from all the rest (an XP SP2 integrated CD does not include the Microsoft VM, or any Java VM). Sun could have saved ten years if they hadn't been idiots. They were too afraid of Windows being the best platform to develop Java apps for. Far from weakening Microsoft's position with Windows, they weakened Java's position because it wouldn't run out-of-the-box on Windows. The CLR and .NET probably wouldn't have happened if Sun hadn't sued.
DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991
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"The goal of the joint work, which will include contributions from Microsoft engineers, is to make it easier to use Java to write applications that take full advantage of the look and feel of Windows" :omg: http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9898168-7.html[^]
I think this is just another way to hurt Sun by Microsoft. Since Sun has fully devoted to promote netBeans IDE, now Microsoft came in to play by supporting Eclipse :) and I bet if Microsoft is going to develop/support an IDE, it'll be deadly killing. No one can beat Microsoft for their expertise in developing IDEs :-\ People think Microsoft will help for JAVA development, i think they are making room to penetrate C# development in an already established open source platform[so that they can promot .Net more powerfully on Linux under Mono perhaps :-\ ] I won't surprise to see a package for Eclipse to support Visual C#.Net development under Mono/Microsoft.Net that will definitely hurt both Sun and JAVA Borland splits to separate IDE generation department and formed CodeGear to concentrate on developing powerful IDEs but they came up with something that is even lower in performance and features to its ancestors [JBuilder 2007 had no visual designer for JSF :laugh: and it's based on Eclipse that has a Visual JSF Designer for FREE!!! :doh: ].
Syed Muhammad Fahad Application Development Tyler Technologies - TEMS Division
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
If MS would have better supported Java and worked with Sun more cooperatively in the 90's my life would be perfect.
Wow, talk about putting the cart before the horse! In 1998, Microsoft released Visual J++ 6.0 (actually version 2.0, but they synchronised all the version numbers for the Visual Studio 6.0 release). It included delegates, so you didn't have to build a whole class to access, J/Direct to access platform functions directly from Java, the ability to create and consume COM objects directly in Java, and a whole bunch of classes for using the native look-and-feel of Windows. At this point the COM people, who eventually begat .NET, were just about talking about what came after COM+ 1.0 on Windows 2000 (still a year from release). Sun sued Microsoft because Visual J++ wizards favoured creating code using the Windows Foundation Classes rather than the portable (but slow) Swing and AWT. They stopped MS from improving their JVM past JDK 1.1.2 (IIRC - certainly Java 1.2 and higher were never supported) and eventually the case was settled with Microsoft withdrawing all the products that included their JVM, and removing it from all the rest (an XP SP2 integrated CD does not include the Microsoft VM, or any Java VM). Sun could have saved ten years if they hadn't been idiots. They were too afraid of Windows being the best platform to develop Java apps for. Far from weakening Microsoft's position with Windows, they weakened Java's position because it wouldn't run out-of-the-box on Windows. The CLR and .NET probably wouldn't have happened if Sun hadn't sued.
DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991
This will be another shock for Java :-\ Sam Ramji the director of Open Source in Microsoft during EclipseCon said: "Among a range of other opportunities (which we're still working on), we discovered that Steve Northover (the SWT team lead) had gotten requests to make it easy for Java developers to write applications that look and feel like native Windows Vista. He and a small group of developers built out a prototype that enables SWT to use Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF). We're committing to improve this technology with direct support from our engineering teams and the Open Source Software Lab, with the goal of a first-class authoring experience for Java developers" So, Windows Presentation Foundation is going to be penetrated in JAVA. What will then happen to Java Fx ??? :-\ Why java developers will want to learn both Java Fx and WPF then :confused: I think you know the answer :cool: Mircosoft yet struck Sun Microsystems in this regard. Well! about the new proclaimed FORTRESS language by Sun that they claimed "Wil change the way programming is being done as Java changed the way it's done!", it don't know what are the plans of Microsoft :doh:
Syed Muhammad Fahad Application Development Tyler Technologies - TEMS Division
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
If MS would have better supported Java and worked with Sun more cooperatively in the 90's my life would be perfect.
Wow, talk about putting the cart before the horse! In 1998, Microsoft released Visual J++ 6.0 (actually version 2.0, but they synchronised all the version numbers for the Visual Studio 6.0 release). It included delegates, so you didn't have to build a whole class to access, J/Direct to access platform functions directly from Java, the ability to create and consume COM objects directly in Java, and a whole bunch of classes for using the native look-and-feel of Windows. At this point the COM people, who eventually begat .NET, were just about talking about what came after COM+ 1.0 on Windows 2000 (still a year from release). Sun sued Microsoft because Visual J++ wizards favoured creating code using the Windows Foundation Classes rather than the portable (but slow) Swing and AWT. They stopped MS from improving their JVM past JDK 1.1.2 (IIRC - certainly Java 1.2 and higher were never supported) and eventually the case was settled with Microsoft withdrawing all the products that included their JVM, and removing it from all the rest (an XP SP2 integrated CD does not include the Microsoft VM, or any Java VM). Sun could have saved ten years if they hadn't been idiots. They were too afraid of Windows being the best platform to develop Java apps for. Far from weakening Microsoft's position with Windows, they weakened Java's position because it wouldn't run out-of-the-box on Windows. The CLR and .NET probably wouldn't have happened if Sun hadn't sued.
DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991
Except from what I recall Java is still the most popular programming language. I was actually disappointed Microsoft took the route they did. J++ was an excellent IDE and I never once used the MS only features.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway -
Except from what I recall Java is still the most popular programming language. I was actually disappointed Microsoft took the route they did. J++ was an excellent IDE and I never once used the MS only features.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest HemingwayI've been programming in C++ since before my eleventh birthday (in 2001). I picked up x86 assembly, SQL, HTML, and PHP over the next few years. I've even been doing some commercial programming work. So far, I've never found a need to use Java. The closest I ever come is writing a five- or ten-line JavaScript function in a web page for input validation. Most of the time, though, I use PHP to do that server-side. The only reason I expect to learn Java is if my college classes use it - and as soon as the class is over I will almost certainly bounce back to C++.
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The Wizard of Doze wrote:
"The goal of the joint work, which will include contributions from Microsoft engineers, is to make it easier to use Java to write applications that take full advantage of the look and feel of Windows"
WTF? I mean, why don't these folks just use C# or (erk) VB.NET? Why don't they use C++ and MFC? Can't we let Java die, please??? Marc
Considering Java powers a number of features in Blu-Ray and the PlayStation 3, I'd rather it didn't go completely away. :-\ From a developer standpoint though, I'll stick to C# and the occasional foray into VB, heh. Flynn
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The Wizard of Doze wrote:
"The goal of the joint work, which will include contributions from Microsoft engineers, is to make it easier to use Java to write applications that take full advantage of the look and feel of Windows"
WTF? I mean, why don't these folks just use C# or (erk) VB.NET? Why don't they use C++ and MFC? Can't we let Java die, please??? Marc
[quote]It just makes sense to enable Java on Windows[/quote] Don't get me wrong - I know that Java is hamstrung by having to support badly designed, old libraries, and there are many Java programmers with bad habits, so a lot of Java apps end up flawed beyond our reasonable repair efforts. But Java is evolving toward C# and remains a source of useful innovation. Truth be known, the .NET platform borrows a lot of wisdom from the Java sphere, and more recently the two languages have begun to converge. Letting Java die is a lengthy process.....
I'm peculiar to myself, therefore I am.
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Keep your friends close and your enemies closer ... it's all part of their machiavellian plan *Insert Evil Laughter Here*
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
I think this is the only reason MS would be doing it. (And that was the only comment so far worth reading) If your Java IDE or runtime is slow or clumsy on Windows, more chances are that Java developers - who target back-end systems anyway - would prefer Linux. So "keep them closer" indeed, let them get used to Windows, let them think Windows is a decent platform for application development, not just playing games.
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Jim Crafton wrote:
incompetent 3rd party developers.
Are we thinking the ones who need an abstract factory and 27 levels of abstraction for each class they have, even when it's used once and once only and will never change, the ones who appear to have eaten Design Patterns, 'cause there's a design pattern seeping out of every pore on their body? Yeah, that's not really Java's fault, but why does it attract so many of them?
All the others are on .NET - those who came from VB/Office syle of programmiing: "half-tier" architectures that embed SQL into GUI forms :-D