Smart programmers
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Before you took the job did you ask to see the team and look at the code you'll be working on? I always do.
norm .net wrote:
Before you took the job did you ask to see the team and look at the code you'll be working on? I always do.
Never been in a position to see the code before officially joining the team, but it may be good - after all I have never seen a code base I like :)
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So, after I've joined my new employer, they welcomed me with an incomplete mawnnster framework, written in C++. No documentation whatsoever, multi threaded, expected to run on more than one operating system, friendly variable names like
s,t(this is a string),pp1,pp2, etc., A complaint was that the connection drops out exactly at 12 in the night. Half a day is gone and then I find this gem comment with relevant code://A day has passed by... this must be definitely an invalid session
if(m_thisDay != date.T_day)
Disconnect(SESSION_PREV, FORCE);And this is just the beginning :((
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
I feel your pain...Espesially about the not documentaion. Not a single page. 1000s of source files, but no documents. Not. Even. One.
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So, after I've joined my new employer, they welcomed me with an incomplete mawnnster framework, written in C++. No documentation whatsoever, multi threaded, expected to run on more than one operating system, friendly variable names like
s,t(this is a string),pp1,pp2, etc., A complaint was that the connection drops out exactly at 12 in the night. Half a day is gone and then I find this gem comment with relevant code://A day has passed by... this must be definitely an invalid session
if(m_thisDay != date.T_day)
Disconnect(SESSION_PREV, FORCE);And this is just the beginning :((
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
A complaint was that the connection drops out exactly at 12 in the night. Half a day is gone and then I find this gem comment with relevant code:
I know it won't make you feel better, but this is a common problem here. One of the most common time formats we accept is time since midnight with a some nanosecond level of accuracy I always forget.... anyhow, because the time includes no date, you sometimes have to do a little extra math when it comes to elapsed time... or not as in some cases.
elapsedTime=currentTime-lastTime; // get elapsed time since last pass if (elapsedTime<0) exit(1); // we passed midnight, panic, exit!That is more common than you would believe, sometimes even with the comments intact. Of course worse still are those who leave off the if statement at all, and accept time as gospel. When you see time move backwards in data review, you know someone forgot to handle the midnight roll-over. :sigh: Of all the time errors you can imagine, midnight roll-over I have fixed more often than any other. :sigh:_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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I'm not being picky here, but you can hardly copy the system by glancing a page of code :wtf:. I always ask to see the system and the codebase I'll be working on, it saves you and the future employer at lot of time when it comes to the start date and you don't feel it's the job for you on day one after looking at the code.
norm .net wrote:
I always ask to see the system and the codebase I'll be working on
curious... would you refuse a job offer because they said no? None of my code is classified, but before employement to get to see the code you would have to fill out endless miles of paperwork. It is certainly possible, but I think you would find the process too slow. Several companies have gone through the process, and waited 3 to 6 months for approvals and even then only got the snippets they specifically requested.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Those bastards deserve a slow and painful death.
I agree. :) Management and/or Team Leader ought to keep on top of that sort of thing. Ideally there should be code reviews but in environments where there isn't (the vast majority) there should at least be some minimal standards.
Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
I agree. Management and/or Team Leader ought to keep on top of that sort of thing. Ideally there should be code reviews but in environments where there isn't (the vast majority) there should at least be some minimal standards.
the one on our team most guilty of that, and he still defends the practice, used to be management. :sigh:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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norm .net wrote:
I always ask to see the system and the codebase I'll be working on
curious... would you refuse a job offer because they said no? None of my code is classified, but before employement to get to see the code you would have to fill out endless miles of paperwork. It is certainly possible, but I think you would find the process too slow. Several companies have gone through the process, and waited 3 to 6 months for approvals and even then only got the snippets they specifically requested.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
El Corazon wrote:
Several companies have gone through the process, and waited 3 to 6 months for approvals and even then only got the snippets they specifically
Wouldn't work for slow moving companies like that, it's a reflectoion on the process ethics in the company.
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El Corazon wrote:
Several companies have gone through the process, and waited 3 to 6 months for approvals and even then only got the snippets they specifically
Wouldn't work for slow moving companies like that, it's a reflectoion on the process ethics in the company.
norm .net wrote:
Wouldn't work for slow moving companies
that isn't the company, the requests have to be made at the federal level. Internal hand-offs are much faster. external ones requiring federal approval take ages.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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Fortunately, the code was not written by anyone over here. It was sold to our client by a Korean company. Our client moved the project to us, unsatisfied with the ones who previously 'developed' it.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
It was sold to our client by a Korean company
So Americans blame Indian developers, and Indians blame Korean developers .. ? Ahhh, Globalization :D
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
It was sold to our client by a Korean company
So Americans blame Indian developers, and Indians blame Korean developers .. ? Ahhh, Globalization :D
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
MidwestLimey wrote:
So Americans blame Indian developers, and Indians blame Korean developers .. ?
so do the Koreans blame the American developers closing the loop or are there other countries involved?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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MidwestLimey wrote:
So Americans blame Indian developers, and Indians blame Korean developers .. ?
so do the Koreans blame the American developers closing the loop or are there other countries involved?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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I feel your pain...Espesially about the not documentaion. Not a single page. 1000s of source files, but no documents. Not. Even. One.
My pity for you. :sigh:
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
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El Corazon wrote:
so do the Koreans blame the American developers closing the loop or are there other countries involved?
Don't be silly. American programmers are perfect.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Don't be silly. American programmers are perfect.
It's not like we crashed anything into a planet... oh wait... ;)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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Oakman wrote:
Don't be silly. American programmers are perfect.
It's not like we crashed anything into a planet... oh wait... ;)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
El Corazon wrote:
not like we crashed anything into a planet... oh wait...
I had a friend who was one of Lockheed's senior programmers on the orbiter mission. He pointed out that Americans don't use the metric system which allowed him to develop his theory that saboteurs from Canada were really to blame. :-D
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
A complaint was that the connection drops out exactly at 12 in the night. Half a day is gone and then I find this gem comment with relevant code:
I know it won't make you feel better, but this is a common problem here. One of the most common time formats we accept is time since midnight with a some nanosecond level of accuracy I always forget.... anyhow, because the time includes no date, you sometimes have to do a little extra math when it comes to elapsed time... or not as in some cases.
elapsedTime=currentTime-lastTime; // get elapsed time since last pass if (elapsedTime<0) exit(1); // we passed midnight, panic, exit!That is more common than you would believe, sometimes even with the comments intact. Of course worse still are those who leave off the if statement at all, and accept time as gospel. When you see time move backwards in data review, you know someone forgot to handle the midnight roll-over. :sigh: Of all the time errors you can imagine, midnight roll-over I have fixed more often than any other. :sigh:_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
El Corazon wrote:
Of all the time errors you can imagine, midnight roll-over I have fixed more often than any other.
And I thought it was just me. That makes me feel better. :)
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
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Bah! Tell 'em to dump it for a REAL mawnnster framework[^]! :)
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I wish I could tell them that. :)
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP