Building a box
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For years I had a local hardware guy, but he went out of business recently. I've bought a couple of boxes from Dell, but find expandability (e.g., proprietery hard drive mounting brackets, etc.) to be an issue. Additionally, it's becoming more of a consideration to be sure I can get XP drivers as I've backed away from Vista, and that's touch and go with the big companies. I know some of you build your own boxes and since I've not travelled that path, I thought I'd ask a question or two. First, if you buy components from someone like NewEgg, etc. how does the price of the finished box stack up to the large manufacturers? Beyond the recording studio, I don't need Screaming Game Machines, just average dev and file serving computers, and I don't want to spend any more money on them than I have to. Secondly, how much of a learning curve is there? I understand that conceptually you get a case, drop in a motherboard, power supply, memory and some peripherals. However, since I'm not a professional hardware geek (and have no time or desire to become one), I don't know what gotchas await the uninitiated. It would be nice to be in complete control of my boxes instead of having to put up with large, draconian or apathetic corporations. However, the point is to eliminate a source of pain, not create a whole new one. How cheap and easy is this?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
I've only ever built for home use. Technically, it's easy, everything pretty much just plugs together. Do your research thoroughly though, make sure your ram is compatible with your motherboard etc. It can take time though, so I wouldn't recommend it if your building lots or regularly for work. Compared to buying from Dell, it is more expensive to build your own for the general spec/low end pcs. You can make some cost savings though if you can re-use things like monitors, cd drives, keyboards etc. weather it works out cheaper in the end though depends on what you have to re-use, and what value you place on the re-used parts. I've also brought 'barebones' systems in the past which are case+motherboard+cpu combos. You know the parts work together, and it saves some time if it comes assembled, and you know the parts work together. For home use, I will never go back to buying. You get exactly the pc you want, with no pants trial/ad software pre installed. and you don't get any dodgy unbranded hardware that you can never find drivers for. (The last dell I brought came with what they called a 56k modem, yes it was a while ago, which turned out to be a 33k modem with some kind of software to speed it up, and windows only drivers)
Simon
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For years I had a local hardware guy, but he went out of business recently. I've bought a couple of boxes from Dell, but find expandability (e.g., proprietery hard drive mounting brackets, etc.) to be an issue. Additionally, it's becoming more of a consideration to be sure I can get XP drivers as I've backed away from Vista, and that's touch and go with the big companies. I know some of you build your own boxes and since I've not travelled that path, I thought I'd ask a question or two. First, if you buy components from someone like NewEgg, etc. how does the price of the finished box stack up to the large manufacturers? Beyond the recording studio, I don't need Screaming Game Machines, just average dev and file serving computers, and I don't want to spend any more money on them than I have to. Secondly, how much of a learning curve is there? I understand that conceptually you get a case, drop in a motherboard, power supply, memory and some peripherals. However, since I'm not a professional hardware geek (and have no time or desire to become one), I don't know what gotchas await the uninitiated. It would be nice to be in complete control of my boxes instead of having to put up with large, draconian or apathetic corporations. However, the point is to eliminate a source of pain, not create a whole new one. How cheap and easy is this?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
How cheap and easy is this?
Rather. But remember this golden rule: if you plug in one of the cables going to a front panel LED reversed (getting the polarity wrong, and believe me, these motherboards from China make it very difficult to even realize there's such a thing as polarity, we could use Nixon here), the computer won't boot. It won't even start up. ;) Marc
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Essentially, the best way to keep costs down is to buy a motherboard with the necessary built-on components, especially video and sound. The built-on stuff is generally moderately far below the add-on stuff as far as performance is concerned, but that's to be expected. Further, these are dev boxes, so you don't generally need anything more. The process of selecting hardware for a dev box is remarkably similar to building a NAS box, and the same considerations apply. Hardware First, I would go with an AMD based system. The CPUs are simply less expensive than Intel's. Next, when you chose a motherboard, pay attention to how many SATA connectors it has. You'll want to stay away from the SATA 1 stuff because it's simply old tech and not as fast as SATA2. When you get a CPU, there really is no difference between OEM and retail other than the warranty (and sometimes, OEM costs more than retail - weird!). Get dual core and nothing slower than 2.0 Ghz. I would also advise that you stay away from Phenom-class CPUs until all of the defective chips are pretty much eliminated from the retail channel (plus they cost more than non-Phenom chips). Unless you absolutely need one, don't bother with an internal floppy drive. Most motherboards have at least one IDE connector - I advise that you use this connector for a CD-ROM drive. Ignore built-on video. Most of the time you only get one connector - and it's an analog one. Most programmers I know use multiple monitors, so this almost requirey ou to buy an add-on video card. Don't freak out, though, you can get dual connector cards for $50 (or less) I think. Cooling When you get a case, get one that has AT LEAST one 120mm fan exhaust opening. Having a 120mm intake opening is that much better. If you get the case I recommend in my NAS article, you'll spend about $60 and get a decent case (I now have three of these at home). DO NOT use the heatsink/fan that comes with your CPU. Buy a better one, and preferably one that uses a 120mm fan. I'm fixated on 120mm fans. They push a crapload of air and make very little noise in the process. You can further reduce the fan noise by hooking them up to a fan rheostat panel. This allows you to reduce the RPM of the individual fans without sacrificing too much air flow (programmers hate noisy machines). If you'd like, I can get a NewEgg parts list together for you that should result in stable, reliable machines.
Asus P5n32 is a good board, not the cheapest, but easy to use and has most of your suggestions(or is easily converted to them). I agree with the fans, the board we built had two, one on the CPU and one by the PSU (amazing how hot they can get!). May I add as well, a Tumble Dryer Cloth laid in the case, NOT Touching the board, attracts dust and keeps it off the board. I replace mine every couple of months. (held in place by a clothes peg, but is effective).
------------------------------------ No fee too high, no insult to low. Accounts, Quantity Surveying, Web Design, VBA for Excel, C#, Contract Assassinations - Email to Discuss Competitive Terms
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To avoid problems and reduce complexity, do NOT raid your drives.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Always did that with no big problems.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Photos/CP Flickr Group - ScrewTurn Wiki
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For years I had a local hardware guy, but he went out of business recently. I've bought a couple of boxes from Dell, but find expandability (e.g., proprietery hard drive mounting brackets, etc.) to be an issue. Additionally, it's becoming more of a consideration to be sure I can get XP drivers as I've backed away from Vista, and that's touch and go with the big companies. I know some of you build your own boxes and since I've not travelled that path, I thought I'd ask a question or two. First, if you buy components from someone like NewEgg, etc. how does the price of the finished box stack up to the large manufacturers? Beyond the recording studio, I don't need Screaming Game Machines, just average dev and file serving computers, and I don't want to spend any more money on them than I have to. Secondly, how much of a learning curve is there? I understand that conceptually you get a case, drop in a motherboard, power supply, memory and some peripherals. However, since I'm not a professional hardware geek (and have no time or desire to become one), I don't know what gotchas await the uninitiated. It would be nice to be in complete control of my boxes instead of having to put up with large, draconian or apathetic corporations. However, the point is to eliminate a source of pain, not create a whole new one. How cheap and easy is this?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
I built one last year. NEVER AGAIN! Expensive, no all-inclusive warranty if it all goes wrong, fiddly, aggravating, annoying, blood pressure raising and the single most thing I will never be doing again should I live to be ten thousand.
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
How cheap and easy is this?
Rather. But remember this golden rule: if you plug in one of the cables going to a front panel LED reversed (getting the polarity wrong, and believe me, these motherboards from China make it very difficult to even realize there's such a thing as polarity, we could use Nixon here), the computer won't boot. It won't even start up. ;) Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Rather. But remember this golden rule: if you plug in one of the cables going to a front panel LED reversed (getting the polarity wrong, and believe me, these motherboards from China make it very difficult to even realize there's such a thing as polarity, we could use Nixon here), the computer won't boot. It won't even start up.
Mine booted... just that when it was on, the light went off and when it was off the light came on :doh:
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For years I had a local hardware guy, but he went out of business recently. I've bought a couple of boxes from Dell, but find expandability (e.g., proprietery hard drive mounting brackets, etc.) to be an issue. Additionally, it's becoming more of a consideration to be sure I can get XP drivers as I've backed away from Vista, and that's touch and go with the big companies. I know some of you build your own boxes and since I've not travelled that path, I thought I'd ask a question or two. First, if you buy components from someone like NewEgg, etc. how does the price of the finished box stack up to the large manufacturers? Beyond the recording studio, I don't need Screaming Game Machines, just average dev and file serving computers, and I don't want to spend any more money on them than I have to. Secondly, how much of a learning curve is there? I understand that conceptually you get a case, drop in a motherboard, power supply, memory and some peripherals. However, since I'm not a professional hardware geek (and have no time or desire to become one), I don't know what gotchas await the uninitiated. It would be nice to be in complete control of my boxes instead of having to put up with large, draconian or apathetic corporations. However, the point is to eliminate a source of pain, not create a whole new one. How cheap and easy is this?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I know some of you build your own boxes and since I've not travelled that path, I thought I'd ask a question or two. First, if you buy components from someone like NewEgg, etc. how does the price of the finished box stack up to the large manufacturers?
Generally speaking you can't beat the REAL cheap marketers of PCs, the primary advantage is not buying super cheap throwaway components. Building yourself is on the high end of the low-cost PCs, that is you beat all the premium computer builds, most of the medium priced PCs but are hard pressed to beat more than a few of the low-priced PCs. You have a choice on components, one you are not familiar with: OEM vs. retail package. This is a tough one and a decision you will have to make. You can buy OEM parts, no boxes, retail packaging, disks, etc. OEM is the exact same hardware, but you save on all the other packaging, and you lack more than a 90 day warranty. I personally don't buy OEM parts, though you can build a system to challenge the big guys on low-end prices doing so. How easy? well, everything except the motherboard is pretty easy. If you get a tool-less case it is easier still. My first motherboard I did myself I gave myself all afternoon and I read my directions, and double checked every step. I even used grounding straps on both arms. I was paranoid of making a mistake. But now I lay everything out and do it systematically, but reasonably fast (very fast for a self-proclaimed "softy" -- software only). One of the local shops will put together a PC for $50, after I found that out, I didn't build my last machine, they did. It takes me longer than an hour to put together a full machine, which means they were cheaper than my wage.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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For years I had a local hardware guy, but he went out of business recently. I've bought a couple of boxes from Dell, but find expandability (e.g., proprietery hard drive mounting brackets, etc.) to be an issue. Additionally, it's becoming more of a consideration to be sure I can get XP drivers as I've backed away from Vista, and that's touch and go with the big companies. I know some of you build your own boxes and since I've not travelled that path, I thought I'd ask a question or two. First, if you buy components from someone like NewEgg, etc. how does the price of the finished box stack up to the large manufacturers? Beyond the recording studio, I don't need Screaming Game Machines, just average dev and file serving computers, and I don't want to spend any more money on them than I have to. Secondly, how much of a learning curve is there? I understand that conceptually you get a case, drop in a motherboard, power supply, memory and some peripherals. However, since I'm not a professional hardware geek (and have no time or desire to become one), I don't know what gotchas await the uninitiated. It would be nice to be in complete control of my boxes instead of having to put up with large, draconian or apathetic corporations. However, the point is to eliminate a source of pain, not create a whole new one. How cheap and easy is this?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
Well, the price is not comparable to the pre-assembled boxes sold in large quantities - they just get their parts way cheaper. Any source of components will do, but I found it worthwhile to not hunt the cheapest supplier at all costs. If you buy items which are in-stock, you'll probably get one single package as opposed to several as seperate times and places. Also, you might be eligible for free shipping if you toss enough hardware into one order. There are a few things to look out for: Case size and mainboard size have to be compatible. If the MB is too big, you'll have to return the board or case, so maybe it would be a good idea to buy them from a retail store with a friendly return policy. Also, there have traditionally been problems with CPU-coolers not being compatible with mainboards. Some coolers take up more space that defined in the "exclusion zone" around the processor socket, preventing you from installing them on certain mainboards. Be aware of static electricity and what it can do to your electronics. I usually wear a wriststrap when working on sensitive equipment, and I also have an antistatic-mat near my desk. Follow the instructions to the letter. Take extra care when installing the CPU and cooler. If you mess up there, you might destroy your CPU. The risk has been reduced by the thermal protection in modern CPUs, but you still can ruin your CPU if you work sloppily. You should test with minimum equipment: Case MB PSU CPU CPU-Cooler Graphics Keyboard Mouse It should prompt for a boot device at this point. One more thing: It can take considerable force to mount some parts, well beyond the point YOU think they should. If you are unsure, find someone who has assembled their own system, and ask them to see if you're doing it right. They probably will just say "yeah, but press harder".
Cheers, Sebastian -- "If it was two men, the non-driver would have challenged the driver to simply crash through the gates. The macho image thing, you know." - Marc Clifton
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I've only ever built for home use. Technically, it's easy, everything pretty much just plugs together. Do your research thoroughly though, make sure your ram is compatible with your motherboard etc. It can take time though, so I wouldn't recommend it if your building lots or regularly for work. Compared to buying from Dell, it is more expensive to build your own for the general spec/low end pcs. You can make some cost savings though if you can re-use things like monitors, cd drives, keyboards etc. weather it works out cheaper in the end though depends on what you have to re-use, and what value you place on the re-used parts. I've also brought 'barebones' systems in the past which are case+motherboard+cpu combos. You know the parts work together, and it saves some time if it comes assembled, and you know the parts work together. For home use, I will never go back to buying. You get exactly the pc you want, with no pants trial/ad software pre installed. and you don't get any dodgy unbranded hardware that you can never find drivers for. (The last dell I brought came with what they called a 56k modem, yes it was a while ago, which turned out to be a 33k modem with some kind of software to speed it up, and windows only drivers)
Simon
Simon Stevens wrote:
For home use, I will never go back to buying. You get exactly the pc you want, with no pants trial/ad software pre installed. and you don't get any dodgy unbranded hardware that you can never find drivers for.
I completely agree.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Photos/CP Flickr Group - ScrewTurn Wiki
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For years I had a local hardware guy, but he went out of business recently. I've bought a couple of boxes from Dell, but find expandability (e.g., proprietery hard drive mounting brackets, etc.) to be an issue. Additionally, it's becoming more of a consideration to be sure I can get XP drivers as I've backed away from Vista, and that's touch and go with the big companies. I know some of you build your own boxes and since I've not travelled that path, I thought I'd ask a question or two. First, if you buy components from someone like NewEgg, etc. how does the price of the finished box stack up to the large manufacturers? Beyond the recording studio, I don't need Screaming Game Machines, just average dev and file serving computers, and I don't want to spend any more money on them than I have to. Secondly, how much of a learning curve is there? I understand that conceptually you get a case, drop in a motherboard, power supply, memory and some peripherals. However, since I'm not a professional hardware geek (and have no time or desire to become one), I don't know what gotchas await the uninitiated. It would be nice to be in complete control of my boxes instead of having to put up with large, draconian or apathetic corporations. However, the point is to eliminate a source of pain, not create a whole new one. How cheap and easy is this?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
Have built every computer I've ever owned apart from the laptops. Pricewise I generally find it's cheaper than finding a PC of similar specs and more satisfactory because I specify what I want and don't need to waste extra money, just get the absolute minimum I need, for example pilfering spare hard-drives from other machines etc. The hardest bits I feel are getting the software installed, while not particularly hard I've had more gotcha's than with the hardware. As John said the AMDs are cheaper and I find them to be much more configurable. A plus side is that they tend to allow forwards-or-backwards compatability more. For example I stuck with AMD for my latest desktop because unlike Intel (at the time anyway, I think) they said that the new quad-core processors would be backwards compatible with the "old" AM2+ sockets which were the only ones available at the time. You do get a bargain, I remember that my 2.0GHz AMD X2 cost £50 but can be overclocked to something like 2.5GHz of which at the time you were spending almost half-again for the processor (not that I run it that high, it is overclocked to about 2.15GHz just by a simple option in the BIOS). Once you've done it a couple of times it'll become second nature, I think my desktop was up and running inside 30 minutes (minus software). Vista took another ~30 minutes to install so all up and running in just over an hour. Then assign a week configuring Windows and installing software just so :rolleyes:.
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For years I had a local hardware guy, but he went out of business recently. I've bought a couple of boxes from Dell, but find expandability (e.g., proprietery hard drive mounting brackets, etc.) to be an issue. Additionally, it's becoming more of a consideration to be sure I can get XP drivers as I've backed away from Vista, and that's touch and go with the big companies. I know some of you build your own boxes and since I've not travelled that path, I thought I'd ask a question or two. First, if you buy components from someone like NewEgg, etc. how does the price of the finished box stack up to the large manufacturers? Beyond the recording studio, I don't need Screaming Game Machines, just average dev and file serving computers, and I don't want to spend any more money on them than I have to. Secondly, how much of a learning curve is there? I understand that conceptually you get a case, drop in a motherboard, power supply, memory and some peripherals. However, since I'm not a professional hardware geek (and have no time or desire to become one), I don't know what gotchas await the uninitiated. It would be nice to be in complete control of my boxes instead of having to put up with large, draconian or apathetic corporations. However, the point is to eliminate a source of pain, not create a whole new one. How cheap and easy is this?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
As far as I know there are some things to consider: - The buses must be the same in the mother board and in the HDDs. (don't get a pata hdd and a sata motherboard...). - Take care choosing the right memory for your motherboard. - If you mount the processor by yourself use the special silicone in order to protect it. - Take care about the power specs, there are lots of different power sources, it is easy, but choose the right one after knowing the amount of elements you want to use and the kind of mother board you have. The learning curve is short, very short, once you have got those details, usually the plugs can only be plugged in one place... I'm buying HP computers now and it has been a long time from my last build up of a new PC, but anyway, the resultant PC was not cheaper, but it was much more powerful. (somehow it was cheaper then...). The best of buying a HP (or other companies I must suppose) is that when you have a problem (if you pay for it) they respond in a specified time line, for example, the other day one of the SCSI HDD's of my main server broke, and in less than 4 hours I had a new one mounted and running. Good luck! :rose:
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
How cheap and easy is this?
Rather. But remember this golden rule: if you plug in one of the cables going to a front panel LED reversed (getting the polarity wrong, and believe me, these motherboards from China make it very difficult to even realize there's such a thing as polarity, we could use Nixon here), the computer won't boot. It won't even start up. ;) Marc
I plug them in wrong all the time, and I can assure you that the only thing that will happen is the light won't come on.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
For years I had a local hardware guy, but he went out of business recently. I've bought a couple of boxes from Dell, but find expandability (e.g., proprietery hard drive mounting brackets, etc.) to be an issue. Additionally, it's becoming more of a consideration to be sure I can get XP drivers as I've backed away from Vista, and that's touch and go with the big companies. I know some of you build your own boxes and since I've not travelled that path, I thought I'd ask a question or two. First, if you buy components from someone like NewEgg, etc. how does the price of the finished box stack up to the large manufacturers? Beyond the recording studio, I don't need Screaming Game Machines, just average dev and file serving computers, and I don't want to spend any more money on them than I have to. Secondly, how much of a learning curve is there? I understand that conceptually you get a case, drop in a motherboard, power supply, memory and some peripherals. However, since I'm not a professional hardware geek (and have no time or desire to become one), I don't know what gotchas await the uninitiated. It would be nice to be in complete control of my boxes instead of having to put up with large, draconian or apathetic corporations. However, the point is to eliminate a source of pain, not create a whole new one. How cheap and easy is this?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
How cheap and easy is this?
I built my box about year and a half back. I bought all the components from NewEgg. The components turned to be cheaper by about $250 (and I purchased some high quality components too) comapred to buying a box. It took about 3 hrs to assemble it. It was pretty straight-forward. There was a temporary scare when the display did not show up the first time when I tuned on the machine, but it was due to a loose connector. Since then the system is working perfectly. I installed pre-per Beta of Vista that time. The installation failed on any other machine I used to install Vista. But that was the first machine where it was successful.:) Also using NewEgg it id extremely difficult to go wroing as far as purchasing the right components is concerned. The site is extremely helpful in providing the right components. It is extremely easy. If you are scared I can come over and help you do it. ;)
You have, what I would term, a very formal turn of phrase not seen in these isles since the old King passed from this world to the next. martin_hughes on VDK
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I plug them in wrong all the time, and I can assure you that the only thing that will happen is the light won't come on.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
and I can assure you that the only thing that will happen is the light won't come on.
lol! Well, I can assure you I've had the problem I've described. Well, admittedly that was many years ago and hopefully the whole system is a bit more robust now. Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Rather. But remember this golden rule: if you plug in one of the cables going to a front panel LED reversed (getting the polarity wrong, and believe me, these motherboards from China make it very difficult to even realize there's such a thing as polarity, we could use Nixon here), the computer won't boot. It won't even start up.
Mine booted... just that when it was on, the light went off and when it was off the light came on :doh:
martin_hughes wrote:
when it was off the light came on
Quick! Patent that! Power (even if only ma) from nothing! Marc
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Essentially, the best way to keep costs down is to buy a motherboard with the necessary built-on components, especially video and sound. The built-on stuff is generally moderately far below the add-on stuff as far as performance is concerned, but that's to be expected. Further, these are dev boxes, so you don't generally need anything more. The process of selecting hardware for a dev box is remarkably similar to building a NAS box, and the same considerations apply. Hardware First, I would go with an AMD based system. The CPUs are simply less expensive than Intel's. Next, when you chose a motherboard, pay attention to how many SATA connectors it has. You'll want to stay away from the SATA 1 stuff because it's simply old tech and not as fast as SATA2. When you get a CPU, there really is no difference between OEM and retail other than the warranty (and sometimes, OEM costs more than retail - weird!). Get dual core and nothing slower than 2.0 Ghz. I would also advise that you stay away from Phenom-class CPUs until all of the defective chips are pretty much eliminated from the retail channel (plus they cost more than non-Phenom chips). Unless you absolutely need one, don't bother with an internal floppy drive. Most motherboards have at least one IDE connector - I advise that you use this connector for a CD-ROM drive. Ignore built-on video. Most of the time you only get one connector - and it's an analog one. Most programmers I know use multiple monitors, so this almost requirey ou to buy an add-on video card. Don't freak out, though, you can get dual connector cards for $50 (or less) I think. Cooling When you get a case, get one that has AT LEAST one 120mm fan exhaust opening. Having a 120mm intake opening is that much better. If you get the case I recommend in my NAS article, you'll spend about $60 and get a decent case (I now have three of these at home). DO NOT use the heatsink/fan that comes with your CPU. Buy a better one, and preferably one that uses a 120mm fan. I'm fixated on 120mm fans. They push a crapload of air and make very little noise in the process. You can further reduce the fan noise by hooking them up to a fan rheostat panel. This allows you to reduce the RPM of the individual fans without sacrificing too much air flow (programmers hate noisy machines). If you'd like, I can get a NewEgg parts list together for you that should result in stable, reliable machines.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
DO NOT use the heatsink/fan that comes with your CPU. Buy a better one, and preferably one that uses a 120mm fan.
This is true if you go for the AMD CPU. Retail Intel CPUs come with pretty beefy heatsinks and you shouldn't need to worry about buying a bigger one unless you're planning to overclock. Edit: This used to be true, but it may not be anymore. I haven't built an AMD box since the K7 came out.
Imagine that you are hired to build a bridge over a river. The width of the river increases slightly every day, except when it shrinks. Your budget does not allow for you to use concrete or steel - you can only afford timber and cut stone. Gravity changes from hour to hour, as does the viscosity of air. Your only tools are a hacksaw, a chainsaw, a rubber mallet, and a length of rope. Welcome to my world. -Me explaining my job to an engineer
modified on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:38 PM
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For years I had a local hardware guy, but he went out of business recently. I've bought a couple of boxes from Dell, but find expandability (e.g., proprietery hard drive mounting brackets, etc.) to be an issue. Additionally, it's becoming more of a consideration to be sure I can get XP drivers as I've backed away from Vista, and that's touch and go with the big companies. I know some of you build your own boxes and since I've not travelled that path, I thought I'd ask a question or two. First, if you buy components from someone like NewEgg, etc. how does the price of the finished box stack up to the large manufacturers? Beyond the recording studio, I don't need Screaming Game Machines, just average dev and file serving computers, and I don't want to spend any more money on them than I have to. Secondly, how much of a learning curve is there? I understand that conceptually you get a case, drop in a motherboard, power supply, memory and some peripherals. However, since I'm not a professional hardware geek (and have no time or desire to become one), I don't know what gotchas await the uninitiated. It would be nice to be in complete control of my boxes instead of having to put up with large, draconian or apathetic corporations. However, the point is to eliminate a source of pain, not create a whole new one. How cheap and easy is this?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
You've gotten a lot of good recommendations, so I can only add a little. 1. Get a good quality case. The cheaper you go the more apt it is to not have things align correctly. Whenever I've done it, that's been the biggest frustration. 2. Know all of the components that you need and research every one of them to make sure you're buying exactly what you want and need. An hour up front will save you headaches having to return something that's not compatible. 3. Use common sense. Components come from different countries like China and Taiwan and their instructions may not be accurate. If in doubt, ask before trying. 4. Don't plug it in until you've verified each connector is properly seated, secured and with the correct polarity. Don't make any adjustments while the box is powered up. Leave the out case off until you know it's running well. Nothing's more frustrating than tightening the screws and then having to remove everything because a memory chip or ribbon isn't seated properly. You may not get much cost savings but you'll get exactly what you want. Just spec out what you want. Good luck. The board's here to help in any event.
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I've only ever built for home use. Technically, it's easy, everything pretty much just plugs together. Do your research thoroughly though, make sure your ram is compatible with your motherboard etc. It can take time though, so I wouldn't recommend it if your building lots or regularly for work. Compared to buying from Dell, it is more expensive to build your own for the general spec/low end pcs. You can make some cost savings though if you can re-use things like monitors, cd drives, keyboards etc. weather it works out cheaper in the end though depends on what you have to re-use, and what value you place on the re-used parts. I've also brought 'barebones' systems in the past which are case+motherboard+cpu combos. You know the parts work together, and it saves some time if it comes assembled, and you know the parts work together. For home use, I will never go back to buying. You get exactly the pc you want, with no pants trial/ad software pre installed. and you don't get any dodgy unbranded hardware that you can never find drivers for. (The last dell I brought came with what they called a 56k modem, yes it was a while ago, which turned out to be a 33k modem with some kind of software to speed it up, and windows only drivers)
Simon
Simon Stevens wrote:
I've also brought 'barebones' systems in the past which are case+motherboard+cpu combos. You know the parts work together, and it saves some time if it comes assembled, and you know the parts work together.
these combos often have really doggy mobos and are being bundled because they can't be gotten rid of any other way. The PSUs are often suspect as well. They tend towards eitehr crap grade or 5+ year old designs that can't reliably power new systems (P4/A64 and later run the CPU/mobo primarily off 12V, older boards were 3.3/5V powered).
You know, every time I tried to win a bar-bet about being able to count to 1000 using my fingers I always got punched out when I reached 4.... -- El Corazon
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
How cheap and easy is this?
I built my box about year and a half back. I bought all the components from NewEgg. The components turned to be cheaper by about $250 (and I purchased some high quality components too) comapred to buying a box. It took about 3 hrs to assemble it. It was pretty straight-forward. There was a temporary scare when the display did not show up the first time when I tuned on the machine, but it was due to a loose connector. Since then the system is working perfectly. I installed pre-per Beta of Vista that time. The installation failed on any other machine I used to install Vista. But that was the first machine where it was successful.:) Also using NewEgg it id extremely difficult to go wroing as far as purchasing the right components is concerned. The site is extremely helpful in providing the right components. It is extremely easy. If you are scared I can come over and help you do it. ;)
You have, what I would term, a very formal turn of phrase not seen in these isles since the old King passed from this world to the next. martin_hughes on VDK
Agree on the newegg bit. Even if you end up buying elsehwere for less, the egg is the one site I never worry about bogus/censored review comments to inflate the rating. Bad parts will be clearly savaged in the reviews.
You know, every time I tried to win a bar-bet about being able to count to 1000 using my fingers I always got punched out when I reached 4.... -- El Corazon
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For years I had a local hardware guy, but he went out of business recently. I've bought a couple of boxes from Dell, but find expandability (e.g., proprietery hard drive mounting brackets, etc.) to be an issue. Additionally, it's becoming more of a consideration to be sure I can get XP drivers as I've backed away from Vista, and that's touch and go with the big companies. I know some of you build your own boxes and since I've not travelled that path, I thought I'd ask a question or two. First, if you buy components from someone like NewEgg, etc. how does the price of the finished box stack up to the large manufacturers? Beyond the recording studio, I don't need Screaming Game Machines, just average dev and file serving computers, and I don't want to spend any more money on them than I have to. Secondly, how much of a learning curve is there? I understand that conceptually you get a case, drop in a motherboard, power supply, memory and some peripherals. However, since I'm not a professional hardware geek (and have no time or desire to become one), I don't know what gotchas await the uninitiated. It would be nice to be in complete control of my boxes instead of having to put up with large, draconian or apathetic corporations. However, the point is to eliminate a source of pain, not create a whole new one. How cheap and easy is this?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
Very cheap and very easy. Have a look at some of the barebones specials available at sites like Tiger Direct for some ideas on just how cheap these things can be. For example: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800 with case, PSU, MB and 1GB RAM for $150 ($130 after rebate)[^] You can even get systems that already have the motherboard mounted in the case with the fan and CPU already mounted as well. Those two things have always been the hardest part of building a system for me. Mounting and connecting things like the PSU and drives is quite simple. Installation of RAM is pretty easy as well, although you may have to pay attention to the manual to make sure things like dual-channel RAMs are in the correct slots. The longest part of the process (for me) is installation of the OS! After booting Windows, you will need to spend some time installing MB-specific drivers, but this usually takes only a few reboots. You should know someone that has done this a few times before, just so you do not panic and can get help in the event that the system will not POST correctly or just beeps at you, but IME these are most often caused by mismounting of the CPU, video card, or RAM. Oh, and watch those chassis edges - today's cases are a bit better, but I still slice my hand or finger at least once on an edge somewhere... (Once cut my knuckle right to the bone!) :) Have fun! If you decide not to build it yourself, you can get a system from a builder, and they usually smoke test the system before shipment and even offer warranties. Check out Pricewatch for some builders that deals that they may have. Peace!
-=- James
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