Wisconsin Parents Who Prayed as Daughter Died to Face Murder Charges
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Ray Cassick wrote:
Good.
What, that she died? I know that will be a welcomed news to many. It is sad to hear of the death, but one thing is clear the Giver of life has the right over life - He gives and He takes, to Him be all the Glory. I will not condemn them, we all go through stages in our Christian life, we have challenges, and with some we fail. Even though going to hospital is not a guarantee for cure, the parents still have to obey the laws of their country.
Ray Cassick wrote:
Really bad way to die.
I just hope we really feel the same way about aborted babies. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
What, that she died?
Gosh - talk about a chip on your shoulder. I don't see how you remotely got that from this reply.
Paul Selormey wrote:
I know that will be a welcomed news to many.
That the parents are going to jail ? Damn straight....
Paul Selormey wrote:
It is sad to hear of the death, but one thing is clear the Giver of life has the right over life
I'm having trouble working out if you think that praying for a sick child and denying them medical care is OK. I don't think you do, but you've not made it clear IMO.
Paul Selormey wrote:
I just hope we really feel the same way about aborted babies.
Yeah, because, that's the same as watching a child suffer and die while you pray and deny basic care. The abortion debate in the US is totally retarded, it seems like one side wants to kill unborn babies at will, and the other wants to deny the right to abortion in all cases. What happened to common sense ?
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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Crap, they chose to prevent her receiving treatment.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
Yeah, that is one view of it, and the one that will be used against them. To me they chose to teach their child to learn to trust in the Lord even in hopeless times, something she will neeed if she had lived. Many things happen in a Christian life. So, I will avoid packaging all under a single "visible result". Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Paul Selormey wrote:
What, that she died?
Gosh - talk about a chip on your shoulder. I don't see how you remotely got that from this reply.
Paul Selormey wrote:
I know that will be a welcomed news to many.
That the parents are going to jail ? Damn straight....
Paul Selormey wrote:
It is sad to hear of the death, but one thing is clear the Giver of life has the right over life
I'm having trouble working out if you think that praying for a sick child and denying them medical care is OK. I don't think you do, but you've not made it clear IMO.
Paul Selormey wrote:
I just hope we really feel the same way about aborted babies.
Yeah, because, that's the same as watching a child suffer and die while you pray and deny basic care. The abortion debate in the US is totally retarded, it seems like one side wants to kill unborn babies at will, and the other wants to deny the right to abortion in all cases. What happened to common sense ?
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
Christian Graus wrote:
What happened to common sense ?
It was stabbed in the back by True Believers of every hue and cry, defending their right to slash and burn until there's nothing left of civil discourse.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Paul Selormey wrote:
What, that she died?
Gosh - talk about a chip on your shoulder. I don't see how you remotely got that from this reply.
Paul Selormey wrote:
I know that will be a welcomed news to many.
That the parents are going to jail ? Damn straight....
Paul Selormey wrote:
It is sad to hear of the death, but one thing is clear the Giver of life has the right over life
I'm having trouble working out if you think that praying for a sick child and denying them medical care is OK. I don't think you do, but you've not made it clear IMO.
Paul Selormey wrote:
I just hope we really feel the same way about aborted babies.
Yeah, because, that's the same as watching a child suffer and die while you pray and deny basic care. The abortion debate in the US is totally retarded, it seems like one side wants to kill unborn babies at will, and the other wants to deny the right to abortion in all cases. What happened to common sense ?
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
Christian Graus wrote:
Gosh - talk about a chip on your shoulder. I don't see how you remotely got that from this reply.
I asked a question, hope you can read that.
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm having trouble working out if you think that praying for a sick child and denying them medical care is OK. I don't think you do, but you've not made it clear IMO.
Read the parents statements, they never meant to deny her medical care. They miscalculated it. Just hope as a parent you will never make mistake.
Christian Graus wrote:
Yeah, because, that's the same as watching a child suffer and die while you pray and deny basic care. The abortion debate in the US is totally retarded, it seems like one side wants to kill unborn babies at will, and the other wants to deny the right to abortion in all cases. What happened to common sense ?
I was speaking to him, I hope he understood it - and did not response, but if you just want to show how only have a common sense you have my blessings. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Yeah, that is one view of it, and the one that will be used against them. To me they chose to teach their child to learn to trust in the Lord even in hopeless times, something she will neeed if she had lived. Many things happen in a Christian life. So, I will avoid packaging all under a single "visible result". Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
So, the death of the child is an unfortunate side effect of true faith ? It's a shame that will be 'used against them' ? The Bible indicates to me that Christians should be like a bright and shining light, that our conduct should attract people to the church. I'm not sure how this qualifies. And that's just taking the religious argument and ignoring the not insignificant ( to me anyhow ) fact that a child is dead.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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Christian Graus wrote:
Gosh - talk about a chip on your shoulder. I don't see how you remotely got that from this reply.
I asked a question, hope you can read that.
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm having trouble working out if you think that praying for a sick child and denying them medical care is OK. I don't think you do, but you've not made it clear IMO.
Read the parents statements, they never meant to deny her medical care. They miscalculated it. Just hope as a parent you will never make mistake.
Christian Graus wrote:
Yeah, because, that's the same as watching a child suffer and die while you pray and deny basic care. The abortion debate in the US is totally retarded, it seems like one side wants to kill unborn babies at will, and the other wants to deny the right to abortion in all cases. What happened to common sense ?
I was speaking to him, I hope he understood it - and did not response, but if you just want to show how only have a common sense you have my blessings. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
they never meant to deny her medical care. They miscalculated it.
There is a profound difference between "miscalculation" and criminal negligence. This was the latter, not the former.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Gosh - talk about a chip on your shoulder. I don't see how you remotely got that from this reply.
I asked a question, hope you can read that.
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm having trouble working out if you think that praying for a sick child and denying them medical care is OK. I don't think you do, but you've not made it clear IMO.
Read the parents statements, they never meant to deny her medical care. They miscalculated it. Just hope as a parent you will never make mistake.
Christian Graus wrote:
Yeah, because, that's the same as watching a child suffer and die while you pray and deny basic care. The abortion debate in the US is totally retarded, it seems like one side wants to kill unborn babies at will, and the other wants to deny the right to abortion in all cases. What happened to common sense ?
I was speaking to him, I hope he understood it - and did not response, but if you just want to show how only have a common sense you have my blessings. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
I asked a question, hope you can read that.
Yeah, I saw that, I just didn't get how that was remotely implied for you to ask it.
Paul Selormey wrote:
they never meant to deny her medical care.
I have no doubt. I also read they are being charged accordingly, not as if it was deliberate. The real issue here, IMO, is that the publicity this generates may cause another moron to get medical help for their child. I am all for prayer. Prayer and denial of medical help is testing God, the Bible says not to do that.
Paul Selormey wrote:
but if you just want to show how only have a common sense you have my blessings.
Not sure what you meant to ask here ? Only who has common sense ?
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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Paul Selormey wrote:
they never meant to deny her medical care. They miscalculated it.
There is a profound difference between "miscalculation" and criminal negligence. This was the latter, not the former.
"Criminal negligence" on the hand will mean that they never cared about their child, which nothing in the report shows. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Yeah, that is one view of it, and the one that will be used against them. To me they chose to teach their child to learn to trust in the Lord even in hopeless times, something she will neeed if she had lived. Many things happen in a Christian life. So, I will avoid packaging all under a single "visible result". Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
It's like the story about the man who clung to his roof in a flood, in the early stages the police told him to leave he said he trusted the lord, when a boat came and offered help he said he trusted the lord, when the helicopter came he said he trusted the lord, and he drowned. When he got to the pearly gates he was angry and demanded to see the boss and the lord said "but I sent a policeman to warn you, I sent a boat and a helicopter and you ignored them all". Surely it is not too much for believers to believe that doctors and hospitals are god's work, or do you believe that are they aligned with the other side??
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
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"Criminal negligence" on the hand will mean that they never cared about their child, which nothing in the report shows. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
"Criminal negligence" on the hand will mean that they never cared about their child
They might have cared but rejecting medical treatment in favor of asking an invisible friend to magically heal a child is criminal negligence no matter how you slice it.
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
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It's like the story about the man who clung to his roof in a flood, in the early stages the police told him to leave he said he trusted the lord, when a boat came and offered help he said he trusted the lord, when the helicopter came he said he trusted the lord, and he drowned. When he got to the pearly gates he was angry and demanded to see the boss and the lord said "but I sent a policeman to warn you, I sent a boat and a helicopter and you ignored them all". Surely it is not too much for believers to believe that doctors and hospitals are god's work, or do you believe that are they aligned with the other side??
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
Exactly - like I said, not letting doctors help you, is testing God, not trusting Him.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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So, the death of the child is an unfortunate side effect of true faith ? It's a shame that will be 'used against them' ? The Bible indicates to me that Christians should be like a bright and shining light, that our conduct should attract people to the church. I'm not sure how this qualifies. And that's just taking the religious argument and ignoring the not insignificant ( to me anyhow ) fact that a child is dead.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
Christian Graus wrote:
So, the death of the child is an unfortunate side effect of true faith ? It's a shame that will be 'used against them' ?
If that child will die, she will - whether in hospital or not. In the court, it is not going to be Bible/faith but law, so yes, it will be "used against them".
Christian Graus wrote:
The Bible indicates to me that Christians should be like a bright and shining light, that our conduct should attract people to the church. I'm not sure how this qualifies. And that's just taking the religious argument and ignoring the not insignificant ( to me anyhow ) fact that a child is dead.
And it is unfornatute, when you start drawing conclusions about things you do not know how it will end. God's plan for this issue is unknown to both of us, it might look hopeless/end to you if you lack faith. The problem we Christians have is to join the world and mock/condemn other Christians if they appear to have stambled, instead of with love, prayerfully helping them stand. "attract people to the church", it seem all that is important to you, to those in "help yourself". Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
modified on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:23 PM
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Exactly - like I said, not letting doctors help you, is testing God, not trusting Him.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
That is your level of faith, and please do not extend it to mean "testing God" - which part of the Bible teaches that? Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Paul Selormey wrote:
"Criminal negligence" on the hand will mean that they never cared about their child
They might have cared but rejecting medical treatment in favor of asking an invisible friend to magically heal a child is criminal negligence no matter how you slice it.
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
DemonPossessed wrote:
...asking an invisible friend...
Hmmm, we just feel different things. I feel the presense of God in me, and He is real to me. If you do not, He is not real to you. We can talk about it all day, and we will not agree since it is beyond human understanding or logic. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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That is your level of faith, and please do not extend it to mean "testing God" - which part of the Bible teaches that? Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Wow - you've not read the Gospels ? Astounding... Jesus was tempted by the devil to throw himself into harm, and Jesus said that the Bible says not to put God to the test. How is denying your child medical treatment in favour of prayer not testing God ?
Paul Selormey wrote:
That is your level of faith,
I'm sorry, it's my level of literacy, and it's people who ignore these basic Bible teachings and kill their kids, who make all believers look bad.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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Christian Graus wrote:
So, the death of the child is an unfortunate side effect of true faith ? It's a shame that will be 'used against them' ?
If that child will die, she will - whether in hospital or not. In the court, it is not going to be Bible/faith but law, so yes, it will be "used against them".
Christian Graus wrote:
The Bible indicates to me that Christians should be like a bright and shining light, that our conduct should attract people to the church. I'm not sure how this qualifies. And that's just taking the religious argument and ignoring the not insignificant ( to me anyhow ) fact that a child is dead.
And it is unfornatute, when you start drawing conclusions about things you do not know how it will end. God's plan for this issue is unknown to both of us, it might look hopeless/end to you if you lack faith. The problem we Christians have is to join the world and mock/condemn other Christians if they appear to have stambled, instead of with love, prayerfully helping them stand. "attract people to the church", it seem all that is important to you, to those in "help yourself". Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
modified on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:23 PM
Paul Selormey wrote:
If that child will die, she will - whether in hospital or not
True. If she was uncurable, by medicine, she would have died. She was simply diabetic, a bit of insulin would have saved her.
Paul Selormey wrote:
The problem we Christians have is to join the world and mock/condemn other Christians if they appear to have stambled, instead of with love, prayerfully helping them stand
Their stand ? Are you insane ? A child is DEAD !!!!
Paul Selormey wrote:
"attract people to the church", it seen all that is important to, to those in "help yourself".
Not sure what this means ?
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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DemonPossessed wrote:
...asking an invisible friend...
Hmmm, we just feel different things. I feel the presense of God in me, and He is real to me. If you do not, He is not real to you. We can talk about it all day, and we will not agree since it is beyond human understanding or logic. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
But surely you see that letting your child die is an unreasonable expression of faith ?
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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But surely you see that letting your child die is an unreasonable expression of faith ?
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
Christian Graus wrote:
But surely you see that letting your child die is an unreasonable expression of faith ?
Abraham was willing to barbeque his child because God asked him.
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
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Wow - you've not read the Gospels ? Astounding... Jesus was tempted by the devil to throw himself into harm, and Jesus said that the Bible says not to put God to the test. How is denying your child medical treatment in favour of prayer not testing God ?
Paul Selormey wrote:
That is your level of faith,
I'm sorry, it's my level of literacy, and it's people who ignore these basic Bible teachings and kill their kids, who make all believers look bad.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
Christian Graus wrote:
Wow - you've not read the Gospels ? Astounding...
Interesting, reading the Bible is one thing, understand it is a different thing.
Christian Graus wrote:
Jesus was tempted by the devil to throw himself into harm, and Jesus said that the Bible says not to put God to the test. How is denying your child medical treatment in favour of prayer not testing God ?
Hmmm, and when they brought the sick to Him or was called to raise the dead, He said "Go and see the physician, stop testing God". You are really reading the Gospel. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Wow - you've not read the Gospels ? Astounding...
Interesting, reading the Bible is one thing, understand it is a different thing.
Christian Graus wrote:
Jesus was tempted by the devil to throw himself into harm, and Jesus said that the Bible says not to put God to the test. How is denying your child medical treatment in favour of prayer not testing God ?
Hmmm, and when they brought the sick to Him or was called to raise the dead, He said "Go and see the physician, stop testing God". You are really reading the Gospel. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Why not just believe in a higher power without all the 'up the ass shit' of religion?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.