Who else saw the "Birth of Israel" on TV on Sunday? (BBC)
-
fat_boy wrote:
Interesting program, it certainly showed the militancy of the Israelis, and how vicous they were, slaughtering a Mosque full of civilians, including women and children. I can imaging how the Palestinians feel with this in their recent memory
first here's a link to the BBC site for the program (you conveniently forgot to add it) now let's see, i don't see a reference to mosque anywhere in there, the Dir Yassin Battle/Massacre (opinions are divided, to this day) is/was one of the darkest points in israel's history, and was condemned by just about every sane person in israel, then again, it's somewhat interesting to see the british people condemn Israel a few years after flattening german cities to the ground.
fat_boy wrote:
So here's the wquestion; Did what the Jews suffered at the hands of the Nazis give them the right to act like this against Palestnians?
how exactly did israel "act" toward the palestinians? care to elaborate?
-
73Zeppelin wrote:
don't think Israel has any problem with the existence of Palestine, it's Palestine that has a problem with the existence of Israel.
That's your media bias talking, not your fault, but that of your media.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
Christian Graus wrote:
That's your media bias talking, not your fault, but that of your media.
No, I don't think so. If Israel wanted Palestine destroyed, they could simply break off all contact and sweep through with their army. They don't do that, and it's not out of fear of Arab reprisals. There's a reason Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc... are labelled as terrorist organizations.
-
fat_boy wrote:
Did what the Jews suffered at the hands of the Nazis give them the right to act like this against Palestnians?
No, it's fascinating to consider a group who should know what it means to be persecuted, yet so quick to put the boot in when they are the ones in power.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
-
73Zeppelin wrote:
Act like what?
OK, reread what I wrote, or even better watch the program. "slaughtering a Mosque full of civilians, including women and children" Get it?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Yeah, and the Palestinians are innocent, how, exactly?
-
So you are from Israel. OK, I guesss there is little point discussing this with you.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
-
fat_boy wrote:
Interesting program, it certainly showed the militancy of the Israelis, and how vicous they were, slaughtering a Mosque full of civilians, including women and children. I can imaging how the Palestinians feel with this in their recent memory.
Well , in fact its true Isrealies (or the early Zionists to be precise) were ruthless when they occupied thier promised land . The islamic terrorism which has taken a brand new dimension as the major threat to global peace has its roots in the palestenian problem .
fat_boy wrote:
Also the Palestinians were aparently supporters of Hitler, even today Mein Kampf is still a popular book there.
Enemy of your enemy is a friend . But none can support the holocaust suffered by 60 million jews in the hands of nazis...
fat_boy wrote:
Something else the program said was interesting: the Trans Jordanian invasion force was led by British Officers!
Not only that there was an army called "The arab legion" commandered by an English general. In fact all the arab nations swore to wipe (the newly born) Isreal from the face of earth . Had the Arab legion been successful in thwarting the still struggling Isreal state all Isrealies would have ended up drowned in red sea . Thanks to internal fights of Whos_the_first_arab_to_contribute_money among Iraq , Egpht , Lebonan , Syria and Jordan - the much expected assault from Arabs never occured fully .
fat_boy wrote:
So here's the wquestion; Did what the Jews suffered at the hands of the Nazis give them the right to act like this against Palestnians?
Of course what they suffered at the hands of Hitler and Stalin substantiated thier claim to thier promised land . What went wrong was due to the divide and escape policies of the English . They left Jerusalem so abrutply that jews and palestenians fought for building by building and street by street . Finally it was the jews who won . The reason is simple - a community which has been suffering for 2000 years (or less , I am not quoting bible here) all over Europe (except for India where the oldest Synagogue outside Isreal is in India and Indians never treated them badly) would ofcourse had its adrenalin running fast and bright - the hunted animal runs faster than the hunting one!! Well , they could have peacefully shared this part o
-
So you are from Israel. OK, I guesss there is little point discussing this with you.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
So you are from Israel. OK, I guesss there is little point discussing this with you.
Oh, what a cop-out. Since you're not Jewish or Palestinian, there's little point in you raising this issue, is there?
-
Yeah, and the Palestinians are innocent, how, exactly?
-
Careful, you might be labeled an anti-semite. :suss:
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Yeah, I 5d you because you got what I regard was probably a mindless 1. It's the old trick, cry racism to deflect any sort of serious discussion.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
-
really? i thought the whole purpose of posting this on the forums was to create a debate. then again, perhaps all you wanted was a bunch of people to nod and agree to anything you say, no matter how inaccurate it is.
-
Christian Graus wrote:
That's your media bias talking, not your fault, but that of your media.
No, I don't think so. If Israel wanted Palestine destroyed, they could simply break off all contact and sweep through with their army. They don't do that, and it's not out of fear of Arab reprisals. There's a reason Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc... are labelled as terrorist organizations.
73Zeppelin wrote:
If Israel wanted Palestine destroyed, they could simply break off all contact and sweep through with their army
I think they are happy just to keep them under submission, and they certainly do that. But historically, they have certainly done worse, perhaps before they had to worry about negative press, or under different leadership ?
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
-
73Zeppelin wrote:
If Israel wanted Palestine destroyed, they could simply break off all contact and sweep through with their army
I think they are happy just to keep them under submission, and they certainly do that. But historically, they have certainly done worse, perhaps before they had to worry about negative press, or under different leadership ?
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
How about the problem involves two sides with one surrounded by a legion of countries that would like to see Israel destroyed? The problem is a political one, and the politicians representing the Palestinians are less politicians than they are terrorists.
-
fat_boy wrote:
Interesting program, it certainly showed the militancy of the Israelis, and how vicous they were, slaughtering a Mosque full of civilians, including women and children. I can imaging how the Palestinians feel with this in their recent memory.
Well , in fact its true Isrealies (or the early Zionists to be precise) were ruthless when they occupied thier promised land . The islamic terrorism which has taken a brand new dimension as the major threat to global peace has its roots in the palestenian problem .
fat_boy wrote:
Also the Palestinians were aparently supporters of Hitler, even today Mein Kampf is still a popular book there.
Enemy of your enemy is a friend . But none can support the holocaust suffered by 60 million jews in the hands of nazis...
fat_boy wrote:
Something else the program said was interesting: the Trans Jordanian invasion force was led by British Officers!
Not only that there was an army called "The arab legion" commandered by an English general. In fact all the arab nations swore to wipe (the newly born) Isreal from the face of earth . Had the Arab legion been successful in thwarting the still struggling Isreal state all Isrealies would have ended up drowned in red sea . Thanks to internal fights of Whos_the_first_arab_to_contribute_money among Iraq , Egpht , Lebonan , Syria and Jordan - the much expected assault from Arabs never occured fully .
fat_boy wrote:
So here's the wquestion; Did what the Jews suffered at the hands of the Nazis give them the right to act like this against Palestnians?
Of course what they suffered at the hands of Hitler and Stalin substantiated thier claim to thier promised land . What went wrong was due to the divide and escape policies of the English . They left Jerusalem so abrutply that jews and palestenians fought for building by building and street by street . Finally it was the jews who won . The reason is simple - a community which has been suffering for 2000 years (or less , I am not quoting bible here) all over Europe (except for India where the oldest Synagogue outside Isreal is in India and Indians never treated them badly) would ofcourse had its adrenalin running fast and bright - the hunted animal runs faster than the hunting one!! Well , they could have peacefully shared this part o
dharani wrote:
Well , in fact its true Isrealies (or the early Zionists to be precise) were ruthless when they occupied thier promised land . The islamic terrorism which has taken a brand new dimension as the major threat to global peace has its roots in the palestenian problem .
damn, i knew israel should have done what their arab brothers did when they didn't really like what you're doing, if you're forgetful, i suggest you read what happened to the palestinians under the benevolent rule of king hussain from Jordan in the 70's when they got a bit too spirited for his taste.
dharani wrote:
Enemy of your enemy is a friend . But none can support the holocaust suffered by 60 million jews in the hands of nazis...
1. 6 million, not 60, it's importent to keep the numbers streight. 2. last i checked main kampf is still one of the best sellers in the arab world (which is amusing since hitler considered the arabs to be no better then lowly slaves to his race of white overlords), quite a few in the arab world insist the the holocust is some sort of an elaborate scam on the part of the jews, etc...
dharani wrote:
Well , they could have peacefully shared this part of land among each other . Thanks to English for having triggered such a nasty issue which continues to consume the peace of the world now in the form of terrorism
it's one of the most common conspiracy theories to assume the brits left the place as an intentional mess so they'll be recalled to it, but the place was a powder keg ready to go off much earlier then that.
-
Oh dont be so black and white. The guilt of one does not absolve the other. This was the point of my question.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Of course not, but does Jewish television broadcast an ideology of death and destruction of Palestine? I think not.
-
fat_boy wrote:
So you are from Israel. OK, I guesss there is little point discussing this with you.
Oh, what a cop-out. Since you're not Jewish or Palestinian, there's little point in you raising this issue, is there?
Lets take a look at his post shall we. "first here's a link to the BBC site for the program (you conveniently forgot to add it) now let's see, i don't see a reference to mosque anywhere in there," Now, he isnt refering to the program, but to a precis on line, which he uses to deny that the events the film stated as fact, happened. And then, using the pejorative 'you conveniently forgot to add it' to try to reinforce his asserion that I am lying. Do you really expect me to debate with such intentional dishonesty?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
modified on Tuesday, May 6, 2008 4:39 AM
-
Of course not, but does Jewish television broadcast an ideology of death and destruction of Palestine? I think not.
-
How about the problem involves two sides with one surrounded by a legion of countries that would like to see Israel destroyed? The problem is a political one, and the politicians representing the Palestinians are less politicians than they are terrorists.
it's the religious fanatics that are really the problem, on both sides, the problem is israel zealots are (usually) contained or pushed to the sidelines by the sane majority, where on the other side if you even dare to speak against them you (and usually most of your family) are slaughtered on the spot. all my palestinian friends agree with me when i say the whole issue can be resolved in about 10 minutes if those damn zealots wouldn't be so insistant on having things their way
-
Except for the '60 million' I agree with what you say. It seems the British were caught in the middle, and made a mess of things.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
Except for the '60 million'
Whats the real number then ?
fat_boy wrote:
Except for the '60 million' I agree with what you say. It seems the British were caught in the middle, and made a mess of things.
It was the US which passed a "White Paper" supporting the birth of Isreal . This act caught the Brits surprised . The US support was due to the heavy lobbying by the powerful Zionists in US who wanted birth of Isreal at any cost . And ofcourse the guilty Europe started thinking in the lines of the zionists because they were silent spectators (barring few exceptions like Holland) to the atrocities commited to jews. So I buy your argument that UK was caught it the middle . But they could have done a more better job than running away from the crisis . They could have clearly demarcated the lands between jews and arabs and made sure arabs accept the existence of Isreal . After all it was English who allowed the first landing of 1000 odd jews from shores of Europe into red sea shores....and they were the colonial rulers who should have shown more responsibility . Remember : The massacre of millions of Hindus in Pakistan when India got freedom . Lord Mountbatten did not plan properly about the security of so many millions of Hindus there ....while Gandhi was there to save the lives of 18% of muslims in India .
redindian
-
it's the religious fanatics that are really the problem, on both sides, the problem is israel zealots are (usually) contained or pushed to the sidelines by the sane majority, where on the other side if you even dare to speak against them you (and usually most of your family) are slaughtered on the spot. all my palestinian friends agree with me when i say the whole issue can be resolved in about 10 minutes if those damn zealots wouldn't be so insistant on having things their way
randprin wrote:
all my palestinian friends agree with me when i say the whole issue can be resolved in about 10 minutes if those damn zealots wouldn't be so insistant on having things their way
I would believe that. In the end I think (normal) people just want to live their lives.
-
73Zeppelin wrote:
Of course not, but does Jewish television broadcast an ideology of death and destruction of Palestine? I think not.
Is the act not worse than an ideology?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
The ideology is much worse - it's longer lasting.