What is wrong with this place? [modified]
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As I wandered through the Lounge on my breaks yesterday I smirked, then laughed, then cried. What happened to this place? I always thought the Lounge was a place we could all get together, have fun, be silly, and just generally enjoy ourselves. That ideal broke down yesterday. Yes, I'm talking about the huge, mega 20+ page bunch of threads about leckey's list. Michael Schubert, I have nothing bad to say about you. You saw something that looked interesting and posted it for the rest of us to share. That's what I think the Lounge is for, to find things in our lives and on the Internet and to say to everyone, "hey check this out, I think you'd be interested!" And then things got a little weird. Instead of people saying "hey, that's pretty funny, thanks for bringing it to my attention," people instead began saying ":mad: that's horrible and you're horrible, how could you say that about those people?" Now everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't mind a little debate here, that's another thing that makes the Lounge fun, and eventually that thread died out. Big deal. But then someone deliberately broke the rules, and it's someone who should have known better. Nishant Sivakumar (a.k.a. Nish), I respect you a lot because you have a whole lot of skill and talent. It takes a lot to make CodeProject MVP, and it's even harder to make Microsoft MVP, and I have to give you all the credit you're due for having achieved both. But despite all that, I am calling you out on the carpet right now. You purposefully broke the rules. Everyone rags on newbies and idiots who post "PLZ HELP GIVE ME CODEZ" in the Lounge. The big red phrase "DO NOT POST PROGRAMMING QUESTIONS HERE" is prominently displayed everywhere. But there's more text under that, and I specifically refer you to the part that says "no flame wars." Nish, the title of your post was "Wow - potential character assasination attempt!" Call me crazy, but that sounds like the opening salvo of a flame war to me. The content of your post wasn't overtly objectionable, but you stressed plenty of times that you thought leckey was an idiot herself. Did d@nish ask you to speak on his behalf, Nish? Do you think he cares whether leckey thinks he might be an idiot? Do you really, honestly think that a potential employer would somehow follow a Lounge link to leckey's blog and with all of d@nish's code samples, resume, and glowing recommendations from friends and former employers say to himself, "gee, this lady says on her blog that this kid's
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As I wandered through the Lounge on my breaks yesterday I smirked, then laughed, then cried. What happened to this place? I always thought the Lounge was a place we could all get together, have fun, be silly, and just generally enjoy ourselves. That ideal broke down yesterday. Yes, I'm talking about the huge, mega 20+ page bunch of threads about leckey's list. Michael Schubert, I have nothing bad to say about you. You saw something that looked interesting and posted it for the rest of us to share. That's what I think the Lounge is for, to find things in our lives and on the Internet and to say to everyone, "hey check this out, I think you'd be interested!" And then things got a little weird. Instead of people saying "hey, that's pretty funny, thanks for bringing it to my attention," people instead began saying ":mad: that's horrible and you're horrible, how could you say that about those people?" Now everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't mind a little debate here, that's another thing that makes the Lounge fun, and eventually that thread died out. Big deal. But then someone deliberately broke the rules, and it's someone who should have known better. Nishant Sivakumar (a.k.a. Nish), I respect you a lot because you have a whole lot of skill and talent. It takes a lot to make CodeProject MVP, and it's even harder to make Microsoft MVP, and I have to give you all the credit you're due for having achieved both. But despite all that, I am calling you out on the carpet right now. You purposefully broke the rules. Everyone rags on newbies and idiots who post "PLZ HELP GIVE ME CODEZ" in the Lounge. The big red phrase "DO NOT POST PROGRAMMING QUESTIONS HERE" is prominently displayed everywhere. But there's more text under that, and I specifically refer you to the part that says "no flame wars." Nish, the title of your post was "Wow - potential character assasination attempt!" Call me crazy, but that sounds like the opening salvo of a flame war to me. The content of your post wasn't overtly objectionable, but you stressed plenty of times that you thought leckey was an idiot herself. Did d@nish ask you to speak on his behalf, Nish? Do you think he cares whether leckey thinks he might be an idiot? Do you really, honestly think that a potential employer would somehow follow a Lounge link to leckey's blog and with all of d@nish's code samples, resume, and glowing recommendations from friends and former employers say to himself, "gee, this lady says on her blog that this kid's
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me too :) almost 5pm
Harvey Saayman - South Africa Junior Developer .Net, C#, SQL think BIG and kick ASS
you.suck = (you.passion != Programming)Now everyone goes home, and the office is nice and quite, and now I really start coding!
Pits fall into Chuck Norris.
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It's kind of statments like that, that cause flames, the guy is being serious over a serious issue and you drop remarks like "Nice sig":|
Go on, vote me down, don't like the truth, does it hurt?
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Shog9 wrote:
Well, that's two mornings now where this has been the top topic here. Thanks.
I'm about leave for home and it's 8 PM. :)
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
It's 4:00pm and I'm outta here.
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I visit leckey's blog daily to catch up on the latest CP time wasters. Am I the only one who thinks its a great idea? Heck, I used to keep a similar list in my CP sig, until it just got too hard to maintain!
Me to, in fact I'm gonne ask Leckey for a RSS feed for the top lamers list.
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I visit leckey's blog daily to catch up on the latest CP time wasters. Am I the only one who thinks its a great idea? Heck, I used to keep a similar list in my CP sig, until it just got too hard to maintain!
J4amieC wrote:
I visit leckey's blog daily to catch up on the latest CP time wasters. Am I the only one who thinks its a great idea?
I started visiting it, only after she added the CP Offenders list and I do will keep visiting it, for the same reason. I agree that it is a great idea so that we won't be wasting time on the offenders at the forums, trying to make them understand anything that they won't. It is very unfortunate that Leckey got flamed for having a link to her own blog on her signature. My opinion is that in her own personal blog, she will write what she wants and nobody needs to teach her a damn thing. If someone doesn't like it, they need not go and read it out of their way.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
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Go on, vote me down, don't like the truth, does it hurt?
norm .net wrote:
Go on, vote me down
You voted 1.
norm .net wrote:
don't like the truth, does it hurt?
Nah, I don't like being too serious about serious issues like internet forums... :zzz:
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
J4amieC wrote:
I visit leckey's blog daily to catch up on the latest CP time wasters. Am I the only one who thinks its a great idea?
I started visiting it, only after she added the CP Offenders list and I do will keep visiting it, for the same reason. I agree that it is a great idea so that we won't be wasting time on the offenders at the forums, trying to make them understand anything that they won't. It is very unfortunate that Leckey got flamed for having a link to her own blog on her signature. My opinion is that in her own personal blog, she will write what she wants and nobody needs to teach her a damn thing. If someone doesn't like it, they need not go and read it out of their way.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
...it is a great idea so that we won't be wasting time on the offenders at the forums, trying to make them understand anything that they won't.
Or you could just ignore them, instead of trying to maintain a list of people that don't measure up to your personal standards. The whole thing smacks of Nazi elitism and quite honestly I find it repellent.
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | The Windows Cheerleader
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
...it is a great idea so that we won't be wasting time on the offenders at the forums, trying to make them understand anything that they won't.
Or you could just ignore them, instead of trying to maintain a list of people that don't measure up to your personal standards. The whole thing smacks of Nazi elitism and quite honestly I find it repellent.
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | The Windows Cheerleader
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I hear where you're coming from, and I debated that with myself before I posted this. In the end I felt it was more important to give everyone a chance to sit back and take stock of what happened. If the old thread disappears and nobody ever mentions it again, it becomes just a footnote in the history of CodeProject. But if we look back on it now, when emotions aren't running so high, we might all learn a lesson about ourselves.
Imagine that you are hired to build a bridge over a river. The river gets slightly wider every day; sometimes it shrinks but nobody can predict when. Your contract says you can't use concrete or steel - the client only provides timber and cut stone (but won't tell you what kind). Gravity changes from hour to hour, as does the viscosity of air. Your only tools are a hacksaw, a chainsaw, a rubber mallet, and a length of rope. Welcome to my world. -Me explaining my job to an engineer
Robert Royall wrote:
But if we look back on it now, when emotions aren't running so high, we might all learn a lesson about ourselves.
"Because we do most things relying only on our own sagacity we become self-interested, turn our backs on reason, and things do not turn out well. As seen by other people this is sordid, weak, narrow and inefficient. When one is not capable of true intelligence, it is good to consult with someone of good sense. An adviser will fulfill the Way when he makes a decision by selfless and frank intelligence because he is not personally involved. This way of doing things will certainly be seen by others as being strongly rooted. It is, for example, like a large tree with many roots. One man's intelligence is like a tree that has been simply stuck in the ground. We learn about the sayings and deeds of the men of old in order to entrust ourselves to their wisdom and prevent selfishness. When we throw off our own bias, follow the sayings of the ancients, and confer with other people, matters should go well and without mishap. Lord Katsushige borrowed from the wisdom of Lord Naoshige. This is mentioned in the Ohanashikikigaki. We should be grateful for his concern. Moreover, there was a certain man who engaged a number of his younger brothers as retainers, and whenever he visited Edo or the Kamigata area, he would have them accompany him. As he consulted with them everyday on both private and public matters, it is said that he was without mishap." :-D lesson learned... we are all one big tree! but occasionally the limbs rustle in the wind....
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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Robert Royall wrote:
But if we look back on it now, when emotions aren't running so high, we might all learn a lesson about ourselves.
"Because we do most things relying only on our own sagacity we become self-interested, turn our backs on reason, and things do not turn out well. As seen by other people this is sordid, weak, narrow and inefficient. When one is not capable of true intelligence, it is good to consult with someone of good sense. An adviser will fulfill the Way when he makes a decision by selfless and frank intelligence because he is not personally involved. This way of doing things will certainly be seen by others as being strongly rooted. It is, for example, like a large tree with many roots. One man's intelligence is like a tree that has been simply stuck in the ground. We learn about the sayings and deeds of the men of old in order to entrust ourselves to their wisdom and prevent selfishness. When we throw off our own bias, follow the sayings of the ancients, and confer with other people, matters should go well and without mishap. Lord Katsushige borrowed from the wisdom of Lord Naoshige. This is mentioned in the Ohanashikikigaki. We should be grateful for his concern. Moreover, there was a certain man who engaged a number of his younger brothers as retainers, and whenever he visited Edo or the Kamigata area, he would have them accompany him. As he consulted with them everyday on both private and public matters, it is said that he was without mishap." :-D lesson learned... we are all one big tree! but occasionally the limbs rustle in the wind....
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
Very well said, and much more eloquently than I could have.
Imagine that you are hired to build a bridge over a river. The river gets slightly wider every day; sometimes it shrinks but nobody can predict when. Your contract says you can't use concrete or steel - the client only provides timber and cut stone (but won't tell you what kind). Gravity changes from hour to hour, as does the viscosity of air. Your only tools are a hacksaw, a chainsaw, a rubber mallet, and a length of rope. Welcome to my world. -Me explaining my job to an engineer
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It's kind of statments like that, that cause flames, the guy is being serious over a serious issue and you drop remarks like "Nice sig":|
What's wrong with "nice sig"? I like my sig. Don't you? ;P
Imagine that you are hired to build a bridge over a river. The river gets slightly wider every day; sometimes it shrinks but nobody can predict when. Your contract says you can't use concrete or steel - the client only provides timber and cut stone (but won't tell you what kind). Gravity changes from hour to hour, as does the viscosity of air. Your only tools are a hacksaw, a chainsaw, a rubber mallet, and a length of rope. Welcome to my world. -Me explaining my job to an engineer
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
I'm afraid that I think we are all a bit guilty of hypocrisy here
Not me, I missed the whole thing! :jig:
led mike
led mike wrote:
Not me, I missed the whole thing!
Believe me - you missed nothing. Apart from Leckey saying she had a thing for guys with English accents ;)
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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As I wandered through the Lounge on my breaks yesterday I smirked, then laughed, then cried. What happened to this place? I always thought the Lounge was a place we could all get together, have fun, be silly, and just generally enjoy ourselves. That ideal broke down yesterday. Yes, I'm talking about the huge, mega 20+ page bunch of threads about leckey's list. Michael Schubert, I have nothing bad to say about you. You saw something that looked interesting and posted it for the rest of us to share. That's what I think the Lounge is for, to find things in our lives and on the Internet and to say to everyone, "hey check this out, I think you'd be interested!" And then things got a little weird. Instead of people saying "hey, that's pretty funny, thanks for bringing it to my attention," people instead began saying ":mad: that's horrible and you're horrible, how could you say that about those people?" Now everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't mind a little debate here, that's another thing that makes the Lounge fun, and eventually that thread died out. Big deal. But then someone deliberately broke the rules, and it's someone who should have known better. Nishant Sivakumar (a.k.a. Nish), I respect you a lot because you have a whole lot of skill and talent. It takes a lot to make CodeProject MVP, and it's even harder to make Microsoft MVP, and I have to give you all the credit you're due for having achieved both. But despite all that, I am calling you out on the carpet right now. You purposefully broke the rules. Everyone rags on newbies and idiots who post "PLZ HELP GIVE ME CODEZ" in the Lounge. The big red phrase "DO NOT POST PROGRAMMING QUESTIONS HERE" is prominently displayed everywhere. But there's more text under that, and I specifically refer you to the part that says "no flame wars." Nish, the title of your post was "Wow - potential character assasination attempt!" Call me crazy, but that sounds like the opening salvo of a flame war to me. The content of your post wasn't overtly objectionable, but you stressed plenty of times that you thought leckey was an idiot herself. Did d@nish ask you to speak on his behalf, Nish? Do you think he cares whether leckey thinks he might be an idiot? Do you really, honestly think that a potential employer would somehow follow a Lounge link to leckey's blog and with all of d@nish's code samples, resume, and glowing recommendations from friends and former employers say to himself, "gee, this lady says on her blog that this kid's
Hmmmm. To me it is like drunks in a bar. You either ignore them and they leave you alone or you decide to have a bit of fun and prod them a bit which can get out of hand but usually is just a bit of fun. Don't take it so seriously, this isn't sacred ground. If it bugs you, ignore it.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
...it is a great idea so that we won't be wasting time on the offenders at the forums, trying to make them understand anything that they won't.
Or you could just ignore them, instead of trying to maintain a list of people that don't measure up to your personal standards. The whole thing smacks of Nazi elitism and quite honestly I find it repellent.
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | The Windows Cheerleader
Miszou wrote:
Or you could just ignore them, instead of trying to maintain a list of people that don't measure up to your personal standards.
*You* could as well just ignore the blog, instead of teaching others what to ignore. No hard feelings, but applying your own logic, I find your reply to a repellent of the same too. :) [ADD] It's a funny thing when you preach stuff to people, without following it yourselves and you feel defenseless and can do nothing but down-vote someone anonymously, who would point it out to you. Seriously, this is funny. :) [/ADD]
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
modified on Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:37 AM
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What's wrong with "nice sig"? I like my sig. Don't you? ;P
Imagine that you are hired to build a bridge over a river. The river gets slightly wider every day; sometimes it shrinks but nobody can predict when. Your contract says you can't use concrete or steel - the client only provides timber and cut stone (but won't tell you what kind). Gravity changes from hour to hour, as does the viscosity of air. Your only tools are a hacksaw, a chainsaw, a rubber mallet, and a length of rope. Welcome to my world. -Me explaining my job to an engineer
Robert Royall wrote:
Imagine that you are hired to build a bridge over a river. The river gets slightly wider every day; sometimes it shrinks but nobody can predict when. Your contract says you can't use concrete or steel - the client only provides timber and cut stone (but won't tell you what kind). Gravity changes from hour to hour, as does the viscosity of air. Your only tools are a hacksaw, a chainsaw, a rubber mallet, and a length of rope. Welcome to my world. -Me explaining my job to an engineer
But, but, ... shouldn't you be explaining *your* job then? Why were you explaining mine? :confused: ;P
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
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Robert Royall wrote:
Imagine that you are hired to build a bridge over a river. The river gets slightly wider every day; sometimes it shrinks but nobody can predict when. Your contract says you can't use concrete or steel - the client only provides timber and cut stone (but won't tell you what kind). Gravity changes from hour to hour, as does the viscosity of air. Your only tools are a hacksaw, a chainsaw, a rubber mallet, and a length of rope. Welcome to my world. -Me explaining my job to an engineer
But, but, ... shouldn't you be explaining *your* job then? Why were you explaining mine? :confused: ;P
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
Engineers have a funny way of seeing the world. They study for years and years, have to pass multiple tests and exams, and understand that any structure that bears their approval stamp can get them fined or put in jail if it fails catastrophically. For some reason, they think that creating software is just "well, you sit down and type some stuff for a couple of days and then you've got a program, right?"
Imagine that you are hired to build a bridge over a river. The river gets slightly wider every day; sometimes it shrinks but nobody can predict when. Your contract says you can't use concrete or steel - the client only provides timber and cut stone (but won't tell you what kind). Gravity changes from hour to hour, as does the viscosity of air. Your only tools are a hacksaw, a chainsaw, a rubber mallet, and a length of rope. Welcome to my world. -Me explaining my job to an engineer
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Engineers have a funny way of seeing the world. They study for years and years, have to pass multiple tests and exams, and understand that any structure that bears their approval stamp can get them fined or put in jail if it fails catastrophically. For some reason, they think that creating software is just "well, you sit down and type some stuff for a couple of days and then you've got a program, right?"
Imagine that you are hired to build a bridge over a river. The river gets slightly wider every day; sometimes it shrinks but nobody can predict when. Your contract says you can't use concrete or steel - the client only provides timber and cut stone (but won't tell you what kind). Gravity changes from hour to hour, as does the viscosity of air. Your only tools are a hacksaw, a chainsaw, a rubber mallet, and a length of rope. Welcome to my world. -Me explaining my job to an engineer
Absolutely. My ex-boss used to state sometimes "Software development is not Rocket Science". There was a fine day, when I got sick of it and said to him, "Yes, sir. One cannot think of it to be *that* much of a simple and straight forward task." He then stopped saying that. :)
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
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Now everyone goes home, and the office is nice and quite, and now I really start coding!
Pits fall into Chuck Norris.
amen to that! i also prefer to code while there is no one around to bug me... then something might actually get done! where in SA are you? i work in alberton
Harvey Saayman - South Africa Junior Developer .Net, C#, SQL think BIG and kick ASS
you.suck = (you.passion != Programming)