to WPF or not
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Hello Karl, if your info is up-to-date, and your employer is empgovpower you might be the best person to answer my q's... Our company, creates software for law enforcement agencies... one of our major clients, has a deployment where its web based with ASP.... and an oracle back... .. .. you can imagine the nightmare... our system pretty much gets rid of the "paper" based processes and docs and makes them electronic. so the review-approve process exists,... a lot of the fancy stuff you can do with applications., doesnt apply to law enforcement agencies as the purpose is pretty specific., however., UI exp can be ofcourse improved.. which is why i have this question for you... you are actively moving old apps into WPF., i WAS going to redesign the asp web app into a Web service + winforms app., since most local/state agencies have a disconnect with their IT., its easier to give the client an updated thinapp/winform, than have it deployed to the web farms.. i do plan on eventually creating a web based portal... but for now., i have a couple of weeks in which i need to create an application that displays the data that has been colllected + entered., request changes., approve changes., supplement reports., and so on.... as you can see., the greater concern is making sure data is good., and things are entered correctly since many of the documetns are legal documents... So the main issue is i have no time., ive been with .net since its alpha stages., and i know my stuff., i dont know if i have time to play with wpf and make mistakes... what do you think i should do? Wpf now? or winform now, WPF later....
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Hello Karl, if your info is up-to-date, and your employer is empgovpower you might be the best person to answer my q's... Our company, creates software for law enforcement agencies... one of our major clients, has a deployment where its web based with ASP.... and an oracle back... .. .. you can imagine the nightmare... our system pretty much gets rid of the "paper" based processes and docs and makes them electronic. so the review-approve process exists,... a lot of the fancy stuff you can do with applications., doesnt apply to law enforcement agencies as the purpose is pretty specific., however., UI exp can be ofcourse improved.. which is why i have this question for you... you are actively moving old apps into WPF., i WAS going to redesign the asp web app into a Web service + winforms app., since most local/state agencies have a disconnect with their IT., its easier to give the client an updated thinapp/winform, than have it deployed to the web farms.. i do plan on eventually creating a web based portal... but for now., i have a couple of weeks in which i need to create an application that displays the data that has been colllected + entered., request changes., approve changes., supplement reports., and so on.... as you can see., the greater concern is making sure data is good., and things are entered correctly since many of the documetns are legal documents... So the main issue is i have no time., ive been with .net since its alpha stages., and i know my stuff., i dont know if i have time to play with wpf and make mistakes... what do you think i should do? Wpf now? or winform now, WPF later....
If you design the architecture correctly then neither should matter, you can use what you're most familiar with at the moment to get the first edition out of the door. Once you've got somre spare time and read up on WPF then you can move the code-base across to WPF as opposed to Windows Forms. The problem with WPF that I see is that if you're a programmer then in all likely hood you'll want to employ a designer and/or get some professional components to make your life easier and look better. For a good example of what I meant in the above paragraph take a look at Josh Smith's Podder application where he gives an example of a UI designed by a programmer and a UI designed by, well, a designer. Do you think you're capable of the second option?
I doubt it. If it isn't intuitive then we need to fix it. - Chris Maunder
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If you design the architecture correctly then neither should matter, you can use what you're most familiar with at the moment to get the first edition out of the door. Once you've got somre spare time and read up on WPF then you can move the code-base across to WPF as opposed to Windows Forms. The problem with WPF that I see is that if you're a programmer then in all likely hood you'll want to employ a designer and/or get some professional components to make your life easier and look better. For a good example of what I meant in the above paragraph take a look at Josh Smith's Podder application where he gives an example of a UI designed by a programmer and a UI designed by, well, a designer. Do you think you're capable of the second option?
I doubt it. If it isn't intuitive then we need to fix it. - Chris Maunder
thanks for your quick reply 1996 - 1999 and creeping into 2001 i was a graphic / flash person... then i jumped into the programming world., i am a jack of all trades., i can do both., and have been... the main meat of my product is a .net CF app that collects data., ditching the boring winform look, i used opennetcf to create a pretty application... while wpf looks really good, and it might make it easier for me to close the deal on the product when shown., i might have to go with winforms so that the product is complete... p.s. thank you for the ref to podder
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thanks for your quick reply 1996 - 1999 and creeping into 2001 i was a graphic / flash person... then i jumped into the programming world., i am a jack of all trades., i can do both., and have been... the main meat of my product is a .net CF app that collects data., ditching the boring winform look, i used opennetcf to create a pretty application... while wpf looks really good, and it might make it easier for me to close the deal on the product when shown., i might have to go with winforms so that the product is complete... p.s. thank you for the ref to podder
Not a problem, not really coming from a design background (I can manage websites etc but then I have lots to base my designs on) then I see that flaw in WPF. In Windows.Forms it's easier for a non-designer like myself to make professional looking applications whereas the defaults in WPF tend to be quite bad.
I doubt it. If it isn't intuitive then we need to fix it. - Chris Maunder
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Not a problem, not really coming from a design background (I can manage websites etc but then I have lots to base my designs on) then I see that flaw in WPF. In Windows.Forms it's easier for a non-designer like myself to make professional looking applications whereas the defaults in WPF tend to be quite bad.
I doubt it. If it isn't intuitive then we need to fix it. - Chris Maunder
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ran into something interesting... http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2007/06/13/wpf-hands-on-lab-build-an-outlook-2007-ui-clone.aspx[^]
Yep seen that one. Personally I feel that ok you can create an outlook clone but isn't the whole point of WPF to simplify things by creating a new UX (user experience)? While I acknowledge the fact that there have been very vocal opinions against the ribbon in Office I feel that it is a positive step in the right direction. I'll always remember one of the girls on my corridor who I helped with some Excel work for a project, she was using 2003 and I 2007 and she immediately commented on how simple 2007 was to use (not having used Excel that much before). Having the things organised into the task-based tabs makes things quite a bit easier to find if you don't know what you're looking for.
I doubt it. If it isn't intuitive then we need to fix it. - Chris Maunder
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Yep seen that one. Personally I feel that ok you can create an outlook clone but isn't the whole point of WPF to simplify things by creating a new UX (user experience)? While I acknowledge the fact that there have been very vocal opinions against the ribbon in Office I feel that it is a positive step in the right direction. I'll always remember one of the girls on my corridor who I helped with some Excel work for a project, she was using 2003 and I 2007 and she immediately commented on how simple 2007 was to use (not having used Excel that much before). Having the things organised into the task-based tabs makes things quite a bit easier to find if you don't know what you're looking for.
I doubt it. If it isn't intuitive then we need to fix it. - Chris Maunder
i dont think its the ribbon effect that i am after., i just wanted to place the buttons in an easy to get to place., i cant rememer what its called but MS has a free small business accounting software that uses a similar design., I have looked at karls little app demo., and notice that all the open windows get added to the tab... i dont know if thats what i want to do... or should do for my app I have a main dashboard, that shows statistics for the individual., total reports written., type of reports written so on... and there are 4 other specific report types., for example., Company A., hires runners/field agents, who go out., do meter readings., electric, water., gas so on.. collect data on a handheld,. and when they get back., sync the data., then on the WPF app., or winforms app., the login get the dashboard., and can then select WATER ELECTRIC GAS SEWAGE... the screen is actually broken up into 2 columns., the left navi bar and the content pane., so when you click water., it loads the water control.. which right now is actually a control that consists of a listview, search buttons, a "summary" pane...., you click on a report thats in the list,. it refreshes the summary pane with preview data (couple of fields + labels), double clicking opens up a new form window that displays the entire report... you can then edit it (another form that has all the edit logic),. view/export to pdf... and so on... i dont mind showing my application., its not open source (yet)... what i want to do., is contine building my winforms application., and then start building the WPF part of it., then coming here onto the code projected and sharing all the stuff i have learnt.. the controls created and all the fun stuff so... if anyone who knows wpf (you? Karl?) wants to have a lookie... id be glad to share my executables... its a winforms app talking to a web service., which i will eventually convert to wpf + wcf., and see how i can host the wpf onto a web based app., cant remember the tech term form that wpf/e ? too late to try and remember., so if anyone is interested in helping, who has real life business app dev knowledge using wpf., let me know :) im open to suggestions.,
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i dont think its the ribbon effect that i am after., i just wanted to place the buttons in an easy to get to place., i cant rememer what its called but MS has a free small business accounting software that uses a similar design., I have looked at karls little app demo., and notice that all the open windows get added to the tab... i dont know if thats what i want to do... or should do for my app I have a main dashboard, that shows statistics for the individual., total reports written., type of reports written so on... and there are 4 other specific report types., for example., Company A., hires runners/field agents, who go out., do meter readings., electric, water., gas so on.. collect data on a handheld,. and when they get back., sync the data., then on the WPF app., or winforms app., the login get the dashboard., and can then select WATER ELECTRIC GAS SEWAGE... the screen is actually broken up into 2 columns., the left navi bar and the content pane., so when you click water., it loads the water control.. which right now is actually a control that consists of a listview, search buttons, a "summary" pane...., you click on a report thats in the list,. it refreshes the summary pane with preview data (couple of fields + labels), double clicking opens up a new form window that displays the entire report... you can then edit it (another form that has all the edit logic),. view/export to pdf... and so on... i dont mind showing my application., its not open source (yet)... what i want to do., is contine building my winforms application., and then start building the WPF part of it., then coming here onto the code projected and sharing all the stuff i have learnt.. the controls created and all the fun stuff so... if anyone who knows wpf (you? Karl?) wants to have a lookie... id be glad to share my executables... its a winforms app talking to a web service., which i will eventually convert to wpf + wcf., and see how i can host the wpf onto a web based app., cant remember the tech term form that wpf/e ? too late to try and remember., so if anyone is interested in helping, who has real life business app dev knowledge using wpf., let me know :) im open to suggestions.,
zorro911 wrote:
wpf/e ?
Unfortunately it was renamed to Silverlight.
zorro911 wrote:
so if anyone is interested in helping, who has real life business app dev knowledge using wpf
You might want to take a look at Paul Stovell's Trial Balance[^], it provides a nice way of producing a first-screen so to speak. There's been another demo from Microsoft which was pretty cool but I can't remember what it was, something to do with Customer Relations but used a 3-d kind of tree view.
I doubt it. If it isn't intuitive then we need to fix it. - Chris Maunder