Mozilla - enough for me!
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Mozilla is definately a resource hogg. Even on my Linux boxes I don't use Mozilla ( Go Konqueror ). Too slow especially on the startup Jared jparsons@jparsons.org www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte477n
jparsons wrote: Even on my Linux boxes Is interesting to hear this... at least on Linux, they had no reason to complain about MS "undocumented" etc. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: And true, Konqueror seems fine.
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After seing so many discutions here, on CP, about Mozilla nice features, I decided finally to give a try and install it on my computer. Everything fine, untill I start it. What a piece of crap! Nothing to really impress me. Usually I open lot of IE instancess to see many pages, and... it worked fine for me. It seems IE doesn't consume so many resources for a new instance... (and in fact this is true indeed). But when I started Mozilla, my IE become slow also. Hm... One thought, finally: about that "navigation tab"s - nice feature, but... let be serious: in few hours, a skilled COM developer could develop a explorer band for IE, which could emulate this tab navigation... and much more, if he want ;P So, after 5 minutes, I remove Mozilla :-D :-D and go back to my nice IE. I had also the feeling that I keep my computer cleaner, this way. ;). Serious, I use only MS products for my tasks, and, with proper settings and a little atention, everything work fine for me.
Of course, we all must remember that if Mozilla fails it will be caused by the EVIL MICROSOFT EMPIRE. It will have nothing to do with questionable quality. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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Of course, we all must remember that if Mozilla fails it will be caused by the EVIL MICROSOFT EMPIRE. It will have nothing to do with questionable quality. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
Tim Smith wrote: Of course, we all must remember that if Mozilla fails it will be caused by the EVIL MICROSOFT EMPIRE. It will have nothing to do with questionable quality. Duh! That's sure, even I didn't take a look to sourcecode...
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I have also been giving it a go and I don't think it's that bad at all. I like the look - but I have had some minor, though annoying, problems: 1. I like to use larger fonts than normal (120%), but Mozilla loses the damn setting each time it's closed. 2. Printing. I can't get this to work - I often need to print bank statements and Mozilla just hangs displaying a "Printing" dialog. 3. Some sites do not render very well. Using fonts larger than 100% makes the CP navigation bar on the left look crappy. It does seem to start up faster than IE. The lack of Mozilla cookies has been a pain though! (can IE cookies be imported?).
Faith. Believing in something you *know* isn't true.
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: 3. Some sites do not render very well. Using fonts larger than 100% makes the CP navigation bar on the left look crappy. JSYK, that is not Mozilla's fault, but the fault of the site coders. Mozilla follows standards quite well (not perfectly of course) and if it encounters a site optimised for IE then there will be problems. Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: The lack of Mozilla cookies has been a pain though! Mozilla Cookies? Do you mean cookies are not working at all on your Mozilla? If so then maybe you have the cookie filter turned onto "Out damned spot out" mode. Mozilla definitley supports cookies. Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: (can IE cookies be imported?). Never tried. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
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After seing so many discutions here, on CP, about Mozilla nice features, I decided finally to give a try and install it on my computer. Everything fine, untill I start it. What a piece of crap! Nothing to really impress me. Usually I open lot of IE instancess to see many pages, and... it worked fine for me. It seems IE doesn't consume so many resources for a new instance... (and in fact this is true indeed). But when I started Mozilla, my IE become slow also. Hm... One thought, finally: about that "navigation tab"s - nice feature, but... let be serious: in few hours, a skilled COM developer could develop a explorer band for IE, which could emulate this tab navigation... and much more, if he want ;P So, after 5 minutes, I remove Mozilla :-D :-D and go back to my nice IE. I had also the feeling that I keep my computer cleaner, this way. ;). Serious, I use only MS products for my tasks, and, with proper settings and a little atention, everything work fine for me.
i didnt keep mozilla on my computer for long either.
:suss: Email: theeclypse@hotmail.com URL: http://www.onyeyiri.co.uk
:suss:"All programmers are playwrights and all computers are lousy actors." -
i didnt keep mozilla on my computer for long either.
:suss: Email: theeclypse@hotmail.com URL: http://www.onyeyiri.co.uk
:suss:"All programmers are playwrights and all computers are lousy actors."Good for you!! Anyway, where are Mozilla fans? ...and btw.: why did they do it?? To enter the market? X| oh, no, I understand now: they missed proper Java support from IE!! ROTFL!!! Only Chris will spen a lot of time to provide good support to Mozilla browser, but this is something else...
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Tim Smith wrote: Of course, we all must remember that if Mozilla fails it will be caused by the EVIL MICROSOFT EMPIRE. It will have nothing to do with questionable quality. Duh! That's sure, even I didn't take a look to sourcecode...
Duh! That's sure, even I didn't take a look to sourcecode... You BASTARD!!!! That just leaves them with 999,999 pairs of eyes making sure everything works and is secure. :laugh: :rolleyes: Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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jparsons wrote: Even on my Linux boxes Is interesting to hear this... at least on Linux, they had no reason to complain about MS "undocumented" etc. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: And true, Konqueror seems fine.
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Of course, we all must remember that if Mozilla fails it will be caused by the EVIL MICROSOFT EMPIRE. It will have nothing to do with questionable quality. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
I'd estimate that 90% of the problems mentioned above are because: 1. IE is faster, because it's built into the damn OS. You don't notice the startup time, BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY LOADED. 2. Mozilla has trouble rendering certain sites, because MOZILLA STICKS TO THE STANDARD. When a moron site coder builds toward IE (e.g. non-standard) of course Moz is gonna have problems on it.
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I have also been giving it a go and I don't think it's that bad at all. I like the look - but I have had some minor, though annoying, problems: 1. I like to use larger fonts than normal (120%), but Mozilla loses the damn setting each time it's closed. 2. Printing. I can't get this to work - I often need to print bank statements and Mozilla just hangs displaying a "Printing" dialog. 3. Some sites do not render very well. Using fonts larger than 100% makes the CP navigation bar on the left look crappy. It does seem to start up faster than IE. The lack of Mozilla cookies has been a pain though! (can IE cookies be imported?).
Faith. Believing in something you *know* isn't true.
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: I like to use larger fonts than normal (120%), but Mozilla loses the damn setting each time it's closed. Go to Edit->Preferences->Appearance->Fonts and change the pixel size of Proportional and Monospace fonts. These changes are permanent. A remaining irritation is that the fonts on Mozilla menus are smaller than on the rest of my system. I suspect that, in pursuit of platform independence, the Mozilla developers elected to ignore some system settings on Windows. Another annoyance is with the Newsgroup reader. With Outlook Express, messages are always grouped by thread (as they should be) so you can sort by date, subject, author etc. while retaining the thread grouping. With the Mozilla Newsgroup reader, sorting by some of those other things means the thread grouping is lost and you are left with individual messages. Crazy. John Carson
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Good for you!! Anyway, where are Mozilla fans? ...and btw.: why did they do it?? To enter the market? X| oh, no, I understand now: they missed proper Java support from IE!! ROTFL!!! Only Chris will spen a lot of time to provide good support to Mozilla browser, but this is something else...
Um, no. If you'll recall, Mozilla is the answer to the horridness that was netscape - and primarily intended for *nix boxen. It wasn't, as you imply, to get proper Java support on Win32 - Microsoft broke that. (I can't believe they did it accidentally, either - they're not dumb.) If you want proper Java support on Win32, go to http://java.sun.com/ and download the JRE. As for Chris spending a lot of time to provide good support for Mozilla: I'm inclined to question your intelligence. Making a site work under Mozilla does _not_ involve some non-standard-changes-every-minute extentions - it involves ONLY USING THE STANDARDS. I mean, try the damned HTML/CSS & XML validators. (http://validator.w3.org/ for starters.)
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Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: 3. Some sites do not render very well. Using fonts larger than 100% makes the CP navigation bar on the left look crappy. JSYK, that is not Mozilla's fault, but the fault of the site coders. Mozilla follows standards quite well (not perfectly of course) and if it encounters a site optimised for IE then there will be problems. Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: The lack of Mozilla cookies has been a pain though! Mozilla Cookies? Do you mean cookies are not working at all on your Mozilla? If so then maybe you have the cookie filter turned onto "Out damned spot out" mode. Mozilla definitley supports cookies. Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: (can IE cookies be imported?). Never tried. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
Paul Watson wrote: Mozilla follows standards quite well (not perfectly of course) and if it encounters a site optimised for IE then there will be problems. Paper standards. Comitee Standars. IE is "de facto" standard. Concussus surgo. When struck I rise.
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I'd estimate that 90% of the problems mentioned above are because: 1. IE is faster, because it's built into the damn OS. You don't notice the startup time, BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY LOADED. 2. Mozilla has trouble rendering certain sites, because MOZILLA STICKS TO THE STANDARD. When a moron site coder builds toward IE (e.g. non-standard) of course Moz is gonna have problems on it.
Hold it, IE IS PART OF THE OS??? CONTACT THE DOJ!!!! Lol... When you run IE, it creates a new process just like any other program. It has to load the same DLLs just like any other program. It does everything just like any other program. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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Um, no. If you'll recall, Mozilla is the answer to the horridness that was netscape - and primarily intended for *nix boxen. It wasn't, as you imply, to get proper Java support on Win32 - Microsoft broke that. (I can't believe they did it accidentally, either - they're not dumb.) If you want proper Java support on Win32, go to http://java.sun.com/ and download the JRE. As for Chris spending a lot of time to provide good support for Mozilla: I'm inclined to question your intelligence. Making a site work under Mozilla does _not_ involve some non-standard-changes-every-minute extentions - it involves ONLY USING THE STANDARDS. I mean, try the damned HTML/CSS & XML validators. (http://validator.w3.org/ for starters.)
You forgot to mention the great right wing conspiracy. I am sure they are involved too!!!! Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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I'd estimate that 90% of the problems mentioned above are because: 1. IE is faster, because it's built into the damn OS. You don't notice the startup time, BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY LOADED. 2. Mozilla has trouble rendering certain sites, because MOZILLA STICKS TO THE STANDARD. When a moron site coder builds toward IE (e.g. non-standard) of course Moz is gonna have problems on it.
negacao wrote: 1. IE is faster, because it's built into the damn OS. You don't notice the startup time, BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY LOADED Opera is faster than both IE and Mozilla. So how come the Opera guys were able to create a faster browser if they didn't have the advantage of embedding it into the OS? IE and Mozilla have a fair share of bloat and that's all. It has nothing to do with IE being built into the OS. negacao wrote: Mozilla has trouble rendering certain sites, because MOZILLA STICKS TO THE STANDARD. When a moron site coder builds toward IE (e.g. non-standard) of course Moz is gonna have problems on it. How is someone a moron for coding to a browser with what...95% of the market :confused: Finish this sentence: Cringer became the mighty BattleCat....
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negacao wrote: 1. IE is faster, because it's built into the damn OS. You don't notice the startup time, BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY LOADED Opera is faster than both IE and Mozilla. So how come the Opera guys were able to create a faster browser if they didn't have the advantage of embedding it into the OS? IE and Mozilla have a fair share of bloat and that's all. It has nothing to do with IE being built into the OS. negacao wrote: Mozilla has trouble rendering certain sites, because MOZILLA STICKS TO THE STANDARD. When a moron site coder builds toward IE (e.g. non-standard) of course Moz is gonna have problems on it. How is someone a moron for coding to a browser with what...95% of the market :confused: Finish this sentence: Cringer became the mighty BattleCat....
We must speak the STANDARDS MANTRA. LOL... What I find so funny is that Netscape never gave a rat's *** about standards until they thought they could use it as a talking point while trashing MS. If MS was 100% standards compliant and has 100% pure Java, they would just find something else to bitch about. I think I will stick with software that works and not what someone decided was best for their political or religious (GNU) leanings. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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Hold it, IE IS PART OF THE OS??? CONTACT THE DOJ!!!! Lol... When you run IE, it creates a new process just like any other program. It has to load the same DLLs just like any other program. It does everything just like any other program. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
Tim Smith wrote: It does everything just like any other program. Does any other program warp your mind, feed your brains to a blender, and attempt to brand your buttocks with a "Hail Mcirosoft" emblem? :) Jeremy Falcon Imputek "..." - Paul Watson 07-17
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Um, no. If you'll recall, Mozilla is the answer to the horridness that was netscape - and primarily intended for *nix boxen. It wasn't, as you imply, to get proper Java support on Win32 - Microsoft broke that. (I can't believe they did it accidentally, either - they're not dumb.) If you want proper Java support on Win32, go to http://java.sun.com/ and download the JRE. As for Chris spending a lot of time to provide good support for Mozilla: I'm inclined to question your intelligence. Making a site work under Mozilla does _not_ involve some non-standard-changes-every-minute extentions - it involves ONLY USING THE STANDARDS. I mean, try the damned HTML/CSS & XML validators. (http://validator.w3.org/ for starters.)
negacao wrote: If you want proper Java support on Win32, go to http://java.sun.com/ and download the JRE. Sorry to be honest, when I'll be in this situation, I will retire myself from programming. Java - JAPOC (just another piece of crap ;) ) But, don't understand me wrong: MS indeed should provide more standards compliance in their products. At least, they are the standards, isn't like that??? :-D :-D
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Tim Smith wrote: It does everything just like any other program. Does any other program warp your mind, feed your brains to a blender, and attempt to brand your buttocks with a "Hail Mcirosoft" emblem? :) Jeremy Falcon Imputek "..." - Paul Watson 07-17
Does any other program warp your mind, feed your brains to a blender, and attempt to brand your buttocks with a "Hail Mcirosoft" emblem? Just GNU. :) "We must program for the one. The one is us. The us is one. We must program for the one us. One million eyes must not fail to see one million bugs." And Linus is laughing his ass off on the way to the bank to cash another fat check. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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negacao wrote: If you want proper Java support on Win32, go to http://java.sun.com/ and download the JRE. Sorry to be honest, when I'll be in this situation, I will retire myself from programming. Java - JAPOC (just another piece of crap ;) ) But, don't understand me wrong: MS indeed should provide more standards compliance in their products. At least, they are the standards, isn't like that??? :-D :-D
We are 100% buzzword compliant. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture