What IS a large project?
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George wrote: I was wondering what do people consider a large project. [waffle] I think its all relative as one mans monster (large project) is another mans snippet (small project). So a project being both large and small is not exclusive. Also I'm starting to consider projects in size as classes rather than lines of code. All though both measurements are inaccurate. [/waffle] So yes 50,000 lines or 200 classes and I consider it large Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I am sick of fighting with Martin, I think I will ignore his posts from here on in, and spend the time working on articles instead. Christian Graus
Colin Davies wrote: waffle Mmmm, waffles... With creamy butter melting over the top, soaked in real maple syrup... Sorry, i was actually going to post something relevant, but got distracted somehow...
Shog9 --
Maybe Java is kind of like God, it "works in mysterious ways". It seems like your apps are running slowly, because in the backgroud Java is solving world hunger, or finding the cure to cancer. - Ryan Johnston, Don't die java!
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Inspired by a thread below started by Martin I was wondering what do people consider a large project. In my workplace we have quite a few of small servers that have about 10,000 to 30,000 lines and these are small. The large modules that consist the main apllication I work on has three main components working together and it has about 80,000 lines of code in each of them. At home I am working on one app on my own that has about 25,000 lines of code and few years of history, which I consider a middle sized. Another project that I cooperate with couple of folks on the Internet has like 150,000 lines of code in the windows-specific part alone. There is a lot more in Mac and Unix version. That one is rather big ;)
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Why are programmers so competitive? Geez.
Martin Marvinski wrote: Re: Are you trying to one up me? No... :confused: Why are you so insecure all the time? Martin Marvinski wrote: Why are programmers so competitive? I believe that the thread I started is a result of a natural curiosity rather than competitivenes. I am actually quite insterested in the subject of code structure and evelotution, line count, comments/code ratio etc. I often use the line counter addin while coding just to see how is the project doing. The thread you started only gave me an impulse to ask what others think, it's kinda an informal poll in a way ;) Feeling better now? ;P
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Inspired by a thread below started by Martin I was wondering what do people consider a large project. In my workplace we have quite a few of small servers that have about 10,000 to 30,000 lines and these are small. The large modules that consist the main apllication I work on has three main components working together and it has about 80,000 lines of code in each of them. At home I am working on one app on my own that has about 25,000 lines of code and few years of history, which I consider a middle sized. Another project that I cooperate with couple of folks on the Internet has like 150,000 lines of code in the windows-specific part alone. There is a lot more in Mac and Unix version. That one is rather big ;)
A large project I worked on 5-6 years back was a spreadsheet computation package. It comprised of an Excel style application, you could create corporate "tax templates" with the design mode and allow uses to enter data on the finsihed templates. I couldn't remember how many lines of code, but there were 6 full time Software Engineers working on it for 2 1/2 - 3 years. I UML class schema design for the application looked like the blue prints for a rather large complex building. Normski. - the next bit of code is self modifying ... jmp 0xCODE
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A large project I worked on 5-6 years back was a spreadsheet computation package. It comprised of an Excel style application, you could create corporate "tax templates" with the design mode and allow uses to enter data on the finsihed templates. I couldn't remember how many lines of code, but there were 6 full time Software Engineers working on it for 2 1/2 - 3 years. I UML class schema design for the application looked like the blue prints for a rather large complex building. Normski. - the next bit of code is self modifying ... jmp 0xCODE
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Inspired by a thread below started by Martin I was wondering what do people consider a large project. In my workplace we have quite a few of small servers that have about 10,000 to 30,000 lines and these are small. The large modules that consist the main apllication I work on has three main components working together and it has about 80,000 lines of code in each of them. At home I am working on one app on my own that has about 25,000 lines of code and few years of history, which I consider a middle sized. Another project that I cooperate with couple of folks on the Internet has like 150,000 lines of code in the windows-specific part alone. There is a lot more in Mac and Unix version. That one is rather big ;)
OK I work for a tiny company, so "large" to me, may not be to you.... I think "large" is when no one person knows how the entire program works. We even have some apps where the programmers don't know what it does much. The sales guys ask for X, Y, and Z. We program it, and then sales test it. Not a very good situation, but it's the sales people who meet the customer.
I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe Jeremy Davis http://www.astad.org
http://www.jvf.co.uk -
Inspired by a thread below started by Martin I was wondering what do people consider a large project. In my workplace we have quite a few of small servers that have about 10,000 to 30,000 lines and these are small. The large modules that consist the main apllication I work on has three main components working together and it has about 80,000 lines of code in each of them. At home I am working on one app on my own that has about 25,000 lines of code and few years of history, which I consider a middle sized. Another project that I cooperate with couple of folks on the Internet has like 150,000 lines of code in the windows-specific part alone. There is a lot more in Mac and Unix version. That one is rather big ;)
The last project I worked on in San Diego was pushing 750,000 lines of code. The predecessor to that program was about 175,000 lines of code. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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OK I work for a tiny company, so "large" to me, may not be to you.... I think "large" is when no one person knows how the entire program works. We even have some apps where the programmers don't know what it does much. The sales guys ask for X, Y, and Z. We program it, and then sales test it. Not a very good situation, but it's the sales people who meet the customer.
I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe Jeremy Davis http://www.astad.org
http://www.jvf.co.ukJeremy Davis wrote: I think "large" is when no one person knows how the entire program works. I'm not sure how good a metric this is. Years of living in Corporate America have presented me with numerous examples where this is true on a one man project with 500 lines of code. :-) Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Inspired by a thread below started by Martin I was wondering what do people consider a large project. In my workplace we have quite a few of small servers that have about 10,000 to 30,000 lines and these are small. The large modules that consist the main apllication I work on has three main components working together and it has about 80,000 lines of code in each of them. At home I am working on one app on my own that has about 25,000 lines of code and few years of history, which I consider a middle sized. Another project that I cooperate with couple of folks on the Internet has like 150,000 lines of code in the windows-specific part alone. There is a lot more in Mac and Unix version. That one is rather big ;)
Well, I consider a large project to be that stuff bordering on the ridiculous, those systems (or operating systems) that you hear about that are over a million lines of code. I'm working on a project at work that has around 250,000 lines. The lighting / show control app I wrote at home is around 75,000. I'd consider both of them to be medium sized projects. Somewhere around the 10,000 range I'd deem small, and much below 5000 I typically categorize as "just a quick app". I do, however, have a different reaction than does Martin when looking at lots of code (and even 10,000 lines is a lot of code when you're debugging it). Personally, the higher the line count, the higher my twitch factor due to the low priority of quality in our industry ("No, let's go ahead and ship it now - we can release a patch later if we need to."). The more code you've got, the higher the likelihood that changing something in Miami is going to break something in Seattle. And it always breaks at 2 AM on a weekend. But that's just my perspective... Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Well, I consider a large project to be that stuff bordering on the ridiculous, those systems (or operating systems) that you hear about that are over a million lines of code. I'm working on a project at work that has around 250,000 lines. The lighting / show control app I wrote at home is around 75,000. I'd consider both of them to be medium sized projects. Somewhere around the 10,000 range I'd deem small, and much below 5000 I typically categorize as "just a quick app". I do, however, have a different reaction than does Martin when looking at lots of code (and even 10,000 lines is a lot of code when you're debugging it). Personally, the higher the line count, the higher my twitch factor due to the low priority of quality in our industry ("No, let's go ahead and ship it now - we can release a patch later if we need to."). The more code you've got, the higher the likelihood that changing something in Miami is going to break something in Seattle. And it always breaks at 2 AM on a weekend. But that's just my perspective... Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
Christopher Duncan wrote: Well, I consider a large project to be that stuff bordering on the ridiculous, those systems (or operating systems) that you hear about that are over a million lines of code. Been there, done that ;) I was working for few months on 5ESS switch at Lucent Technologies, which at the time was said to have like 6 million lines. I think it's got more than by 10 million now. Development of 5ESS is very well organized. So well that, in fact, it gets boring. The quality is superb thought - due to the extensive testing and code review procedures they got below 1 error in 1000 lines of code. I would probably still work there if I didn't have to relocate 7000 miles from home at the time ;)
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Inspired by a thread below started by Martin I was wondering what do people consider a large project. In my workplace we have quite a few of small servers that have about 10,000 to 30,000 lines and these are small. The large modules that consist the main apllication I work on has three main components working together and it has about 80,000 lines of code in each of them. At home I am working on one app on my own that has about 25,000 lines of code and few years of history, which I consider a middle sized. Another project that I cooperate with couple of folks on the Internet has like 150,000 lines of code in the windows-specific part alone. There is a lot more in Mac and Unix version. That one is rather big ;)
How about 150,000 lines (maybe 70k with no comments) all managed by 1 person. :wtf: Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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Christopher Duncan wrote: Well, I consider a large project to be that stuff bordering on the ridiculous, those systems (or operating systems) that you hear about that are over a million lines of code. Been there, done that ;) I was working for few months on 5ESS switch at Lucent Technologies, which at the time was said to have like 6 million lines. I think it's got more than by 10 million now. Development of 5ESS is very well organized. So well that, in fact, it gets boring. The quality is superb thought - due to the extensive testing and code review procedures they got below 1 error in 1000 lines of code. I would probably still work there if I didn't have to relocate 7000 miles from home at the time ;)
George wrote: they got below 1 error in 1000 lines of code. That's impressive for a codebase that size! Still, I dream of a day when software can be developed and delivered with 0 errors per 1000 lines of code. Of course, having spent the number of years that I have in the business world, I chose the term dream intentionally. Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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How about 150,000 lines (maybe 70k with no comments) all managed by 1 person. :wtf: Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
Tim Smith wrote: all managed by 1 person. Well, that would explain the 80k of comments. Nothing like practicing a little self defense! Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Inspired by a thread below started by Martin I was wondering what do people consider a large project. In my workplace we have quite a few of small servers that have about 10,000 to 30,000 lines and these are small. The large modules that consist the main apllication I work on has three main components working together and it has about 80,000 lines of code in each of them. At home I am working on one app on my own that has about 25,000 lines of code and few years of history, which I consider a middle sized. Another project that I cooperate with couple of folks on the Internet has like 150,000 lines of code in the windows-specific part alone. There is a lot more in Mac and Unix version. That one is rather big ;)
One where I have worked on it long enough to get bored with it. Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs
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Inspired by a thread below started by Martin I was wondering what do people consider a large project. In my workplace we have quite a few of small servers that have about 10,000 to 30,000 lines and these are small. The large modules that consist the main apllication I work on has three main components working together and it has about 80,000 lines of code in each of them. At home I am working on one app on my own that has about 25,000 lines of code and few years of history, which I consider a middle sized. Another project that I cooperate with couple of folks on the Internet has like 150,000 lines of code in the windows-specific part alone. There is a lot more in Mac and Unix version. That one is rather big ;)
George wrote: Inspired by a thread below started by Martin I was wondering what do people consider a large project I would definitely consider Windows XP a large project (45M+ LOC)! :omg:
All of my opinions are correct, even when reality makes the mistake of disagreeing with me.
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George wrote: they got below 1 error in 1000 lines of code. That's impressive for a codebase that size! Still, I dream of a day when software can be developed and delivered with 0 errors per 1000 lines of code. Of course, having spent the number of years that I have in the business world, I chose the term dream intentionally. Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
As long as humans are writting software that's not likely to happen for quite some time. Todd Smith
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George wrote: they got below 1 error in 1000 lines of code. That's impressive for a codebase that size! Still, I dream of a day when software can be developed and delivered with 0 errors per 1000 lines of code. Of course, having spent the number of years that I have in the business world, I chose the term dream intentionally. Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
Christopher Duncan wrote: I chose the term dream intentionally. I don't think dreaming is the correct term. Fantasy comes to mind. A little research into chaos / game theory and the theory of uncertainty will show that it is even beyond fantasy- its impossible. Richard Monarchies, aristocracies, and religions....there was never a country where the majority of the people were in their secret hearts loyal to any of these institutions. Mark Twain - The Mysterious Stranger
