MacBook or cheap laptop + Linux
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Go for the Acer/Fujitsu + Ubuntu. (I have a MacBook Pro. Great hardware and Mac OS X is pretty good but my next laptop will be something like a Lenovo X300 and Ubuntu.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Paul Watson wrote:
(I have a MacBook Pro. Great hardware and Mac OS X is pretty good but my next laptop will be something like a Lenovo X300 and Ubuntu.)
I'm leaning that way these days as well. Except I don't care for Ubuntu's performance compared to Arch (Although I love how Ubuntu has raised the quality and usability bar as an entry into linux).
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Graham Bradshaw wrote:
You're running OS X on non-Apple hardware?
It's really not that difficult and I have a license for everything I use.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Chris Austin wrote:
and I have a license for everything I use.
If you have a license for OS X, you should probably read it. Apple's Mac OS X end-user license states the operating system is only licensed for use on Apple-branded hardware...
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Some question it... http://www.psystar.com/psystar_openmac_osx86_reinventing_the_wheel.html[^]
-- Jarek Andrzejewski
Who knows better than the manufacturer? We can download the license at http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/[^] Concerning OS X: 2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions. A. Single Use. This License allows you to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time. Thus, basically, it is not allow to install OS X on a non-Apple-labeled computer... You may also be interested in this patent http://www.google.com/patents?id=Gt-XAAAAEBAJ&dq=RUN-TIME+CODE+INJECTION+TO+PERFORM+CHECKS[^]
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Paul Watson wrote:
my next laptop will be something like a Lenovo X300 and Ubuntu
I'm truly stunned. :omg: Care to explain why you'd leave the Apple ship?
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Care to explain why you'd leave the Apple ship?
Strangely enough there is very little reason for the change. Apart from some reliability concerns* I have about Apple laptops I like the MacBook Pro a lot. But it could be lighter and have a smaller footprint. The MacBook Air is lovely but the Lenovo X300 is very nicely done too. The WWAN and the GPS in the X300 though tip it into my favour. A removable battery and being able to put a second battery in place of the optical drive is handy too. OS wise, I am a web-developer so OS choice isn't hugely important. I like OS X but it doesn't do anything that I can't do on Ubuntu. Most of my code runs on Ubuntu servers. Deployment is less error prone when you develop close to what you deploy on. I am also a bit weary of Apple's tactics. They are no saints. I'd rather support Ubuntu and an "open" manufacturer like Lenovo/IBM. For non-tech users I'd still recommend OS X and the iMac or MacBook line. But for web-developers who can handle some of the rough edges of Ubuntu I'd go with that on generic Intel hardware. I will still have access to OS X via a Mac Mini just as I have some Windows boxes lying about for testing purposes. At the end of the day not a whole lot is going to change when I swap. * My MacBook Pro HD died after 1.5 years. A co-worker's MacBook Pro HD died after 2 years. Another co-workers MacBook Pro isn't booting up. My girlfriend's MacBook HD died after 6 months. All of them were the known-to-be-faulty Seagate 7.1 drives. But Apple have been poor in responding to this problem, they replace them but don't admit much fault.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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I am in the market for a new laptop, as my company have declared that all personal software be removed from company machines (including iTunes, etc.). Now, I *really* want a MacBook, but they are incredibly expensive (£700 for a basic model) and if I want one with a DVD burner (essential) I have to trade up to one that costs £830! WTF? It appears that the basic model comes with a CDRW/DVD-ROM drive and it cannot be upgraded. Sigh. That really blows. I don't want much - I want to browse, burn DVDs, store music/pictures, sync my iPod, etc. I know a few people with Macs and they seem to think the software is brilliant, the machines reliable and the whole 'experience' painless. Alternatively, I can buy a cheapo laptop (a Fujitsu or an Acer) for around £300, stick Ubuntu on it (Vista doesn't really interest me), and try to find some iTunes-like package so I can keep my music library synced (I have an Apple iPod Hi-Fi, so I don't play music via the computer - but I must be able to manage smart playlists and the like). The Ubuntu route is looking best, obviously - does anyone want to try and talk me out of it? :)
I run Mythbuntu on the HTPC and am setting my main PC to dual boot XP and Mythbuntu for development purposes (and keep it in sync with the HTPC). Ubuntu is definitely the best Linux distro around! Oop - talk you out of it? :-O
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
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Who knows better than the manufacturer? We can download the license at http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/[^] Concerning OS X: 2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions. A. Single Use. This License allows you to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time. Thus, basically, it is not allow to install OS X on a non-Apple-labeled computer... You may also be interested in this patent http://www.google.com/patents?id=Gt-XAAAAEBAJ&dq=RUN-TIME+CODE+INJECTION+TO+PERFORM+CHECKS[^]
The interesting thing is the Apple aren't bothering about the small people, just those trying to operate on a large scale which is fair enough, it would erode their market.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
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Who knows better than the manufacturer? We can download the license at http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/[^] Concerning OS X: 2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions. A. Single Use. This License allows you to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time. Thus, basically, it is not allow to install OS X on a non-Apple-labeled computer... You may also be interested in this patent http://www.google.com/patents?id=Gt-XAAAAEBAJ&dq=RUN-TIME+CODE+INJECTION+TO+PERFORM+CHECKS[^]
I know the Apple SLA, but it is questioned by Psystar. I found: There is quite a clear decision by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit (with a writ of certiorari denied by the Supreme Court, so it's pretty strong decision) in DATA GENERAL CORP. v. DIGIDYNE CORP. , 473 U.S. 908 (1985) which prohibits forcing someone to run a software on a specific piece of hardware. Since Apple sells Leopard as a separate piece of software (not as part of a machine) the EULA seems just to blow smoke to scare people away. That's why Psystar includes a shrink-wrapped copy of Leopard with each machine. And also: http://1stedition.wordpress.com/2008/04/23/apple-inc-vs-psystar-corp-apples-achilles-heel/[^] So this is what I meant writing "questioned".
-- Jarek Andrzejewski
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Just keep in mind the old saying: "You get what you pay for".
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
Just curious what you think you get from Apple that you won't get from Acer/Fujitsu + Ubuntu?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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cheap laptop (i can recommend an ibm t41p in particular) and ubuntu ... i use it to talk to my nano 3g ipod with no problems ... you might need to recompile libgpod and gtkpod if you have one of the latest ipods (it sounds wayyyyyyyyyy harder than it is) and i would recommend gpodder (for podcasts) ... email me if you should need any help ;)
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
modified on Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:22 PM
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I've tried it.. Works perfectly.
To hell with circumstances; I create opportunities.
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I am in the market for a new laptop, as my company have declared that all personal software be removed from company machines (including iTunes, etc.). Now, I *really* want a MacBook, but they are incredibly expensive (£700 for a basic model) and if I want one with a DVD burner (essential) I have to trade up to one that costs £830! WTF? It appears that the basic model comes with a CDRW/DVD-ROM drive and it cannot be upgraded. Sigh. That really blows. I don't want much - I want to browse, burn DVDs, store music/pictures, sync my iPod, etc. I know a few people with Macs and they seem to think the software is brilliant, the machines reliable and the whole 'experience' painless. Alternatively, I can buy a cheapo laptop (a Fujitsu or an Acer) for around £300, stick Ubuntu on it (Vista doesn't really interest me), and try to find some iTunes-like package so I can keep my music library synced (I have an Apple iPod Hi-Fi, so I don't play music via the computer - but I must be able to manage smart playlists and the like). The Ubuntu route is looking best, obviously - does anyone want to try and talk me out of it? :)
Have a look at: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/200708-94/[^] Usually Ubuntu do not complain too much when you install it in a laptop. But having a certified laptop would avoid you having some unpleasant surprises. Like what happens to me, that I have to compile ALSA (kernel audio module) each time I update the distro to a new version to work with my Fujistsu-Siemens 1439G (about 3 years old). O with Ubuntu 7.10 when I had to recompile my kernel because the ACPI did not work properly and after an hour my laptop was about to Burn... If you want something like iTunes I would recommend you: http://banshee-project.org/Main_Page[^] There are many other players, but this is (IMHO) one of the most similar to iTunes is that one.
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I run Mythbuntu on the HTPC and am setting my main PC to dual boot XP and Mythbuntu for development purposes (and keep it in sync with the HTPC). Ubuntu is definitely the best Linux distro around! Oop - talk you out of it? :-O
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Care to explain why you'd leave the Apple ship?
Strangely enough there is very little reason for the change. Apart from some reliability concerns* I have about Apple laptops I like the MacBook Pro a lot. But it could be lighter and have a smaller footprint. The MacBook Air is lovely but the Lenovo X300 is very nicely done too. The WWAN and the GPS in the X300 though tip it into my favour. A removable battery and being able to put a second battery in place of the optical drive is handy too. OS wise, I am a web-developer so OS choice isn't hugely important. I like OS X but it doesn't do anything that I can't do on Ubuntu. Most of my code runs on Ubuntu servers. Deployment is less error prone when you develop close to what you deploy on. I am also a bit weary of Apple's tactics. They are no saints. I'd rather support Ubuntu and an "open" manufacturer like Lenovo/IBM. For non-tech users I'd still recommend OS X and the iMac or MacBook line. But for web-developers who can handle some of the rough edges of Ubuntu I'd go with that on generic Intel hardware. I will still have access to OS X via a Mac Mini just as I have some Windows boxes lying about for testing purposes. At the end of the day not a whole lot is going to change when I swap. * My MacBook Pro HD died after 1.5 years. A co-worker's MacBook Pro HD died after 2 years. Another co-workers MacBook Pro isn't booting up. My girlfriend's MacBook HD died after 6 months. All of them were the known-to-be-faulty Seagate 7.1 drives. But Apple have been poor in responding to this problem, they replace them but don't admit much fault.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Paul Watson wrote:
* My MacBook Pro HD died after 1.5 years. A co-worker's MacBook Pro HD died after 2 years. Another co-workers MacBook Pro isn't booting up. My girlfriend's MacBook HD died after 6 months. All of them were the known-to-be-faulty Seagate 7.1 drives. But Apple have been poor in responding to this problem, they replace them but don't admit much fault.
If it makes you feel any better, i've had similar issues with Dell machines (also Seagate drives...) :sigh:
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
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Chris Austin wrote:
and I have a license for everything I use.
If you have a license for OS X, you should probably read it. Apple's Mac OS X end-user license states the operating system is only licensed for use on Apple-branded hardware...
I don't care.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Just curious what you think you get from Apple that you won't get from Acer/Fujitsu + Ubuntu?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Well at the risk of sounding like a "fanboy", my experience has been that the hardware itself tends to be really good. In terms of dekstop PC's that's worth a lot to me, in the sense that it's easy to open the box up, expand things, and so on. Most of the PC's I've worked with have not been physically designed well for this even though they allow it. In terms of an OS, while Unbuntu has made *huge* strides, there's still *potentially* stuff you have to tweak at the command line which is just silly. That and the ridiculous licensing stance means that I tend to have little interest in using it other than when forced to for development purposes.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Well at the risk of sounding like a "fanboy", my experience has been that the hardware itself tends to be really good. In terms of dekstop PC's that's worth a lot to me, in the sense that it's easy to open the box up, expand things, and so on. Most of the PC's I've worked with have not been physically designed well for this even though they allow it. In terms of an OS, while Unbuntu has made *huge* strides, there's still *potentially* stuff you have to tweak at the command line which is just silly. That and the ridiculous licensing stance means that I tend to have little interest in using it other than when forced to for development purposes.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
Jim Crafton wrote:
in the sense that it's easy to open the box up, expand things
Their Mac Pro line is very good in this regard. The iMac and even Mac Mini though are pretty dismal when it comes to expandability or easy swapping of bits. The MacBooks are even poorer. About the only two things you can easily are memory and the battery. HD is a warranty voiding torx screw-driver affair. The hardware is well designed though and lovely to use, absolutely agree.
Jim Crafton wrote:
ridiculous licensing stance
Ubuntu has a ridiculous license?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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Jim Crafton wrote:
in the sense that it's easy to open the box up, expand things
Their Mac Pro line is very good in this regard. The iMac and even Mac Mini though are pretty dismal when it comes to expandability or easy swapping of bits. The MacBooks are even poorer. About the only two things you can easily are memory and the battery. HD is a warranty voiding torx screw-driver affair. The hardware is well designed though and lovely to use, absolutely agree.
Jim Crafton wrote:
ridiculous licensing stance
Ubuntu has a ridiculous license?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Paul Watson wrote:
Their Mac Pro line is very good in this regard.
Yeah, sorry I should have been more specific. The Imac and mini are nice but a practically speaking they're a black box.
Paul Watson wrote:
Ubuntu has a ridiculous license?
Ubuntu per se, no, but the fact that it's built on top of a GPL kernel and all sorts of other GPL apps, and that the community around it gets into a hissy fit over the slightest perceived slant to it, means that they don't (or didn't maybe it's changed in the latest release) distribute practical software modules. For example, in the past you could make *any* use of your kick ass Nvidia graphics card till you updated various drivers, and that meant monkeying around with the update repository, setting it to include the "tainted" drivers repository, and then downloading them and installing them. Ditto for various common everyday codecs from Apple or Microsoft (or whomever). Who the hell wants to dick around with stuff like that? I don't, it's a complete waste of my time. Sure it's easier than it use to be, and you can probably accomplish it without the command line (maybe!), and it only takes 5 or 6 clicks of the mouse, and then only waiting around for 15 to 45 minutes depending on your net connection, and then a possible X reset, and so on... But the fact that I have to do this *at all* is a complete waste of time. And *all* of this is due simply to blind adherence to the GPL license.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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yah it works great if you have the right version of libgpod for your ipod model :)
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
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Paul Watson wrote:
Their Mac Pro line is very good in this regard.
Yeah, sorry I should have been more specific. The Imac and mini are nice but a practically speaking they're a black box.
Paul Watson wrote:
Ubuntu has a ridiculous license?
Ubuntu per se, no, but the fact that it's built on top of a GPL kernel and all sorts of other GPL apps, and that the community around it gets into a hissy fit over the slightest perceived slant to it, means that they don't (or didn't maybe it's changed in the latest release) distribute practical software modules. For example, in the past you could make *any* use of your kick ass Nvidia graphics card till you updated various drivers, and that meant monkeying around with the update repository, setting it to include the "tainted" drivers repository, and then downloading them and installing them. Ditto for various common everyday codecs from Apple or Microsoft (or whomever). Who the hell wants to dick around with stuff like that? I don't, it's a complete waste of my time. Sure it's easier than it use to be, and you can probably accomplish it without the command line (maybe!), and it only takes 5 or 6 clicks of the mouse, and then only waiting around for 15 to 45 minutes depending on your net connection, and then a possible X reset, and so on... But the fact that I have to do this *at all* is a complete waste of time. And *all* of this is due simply to blind adherence to the GPL license.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
ummmmmmm not really ... it's far easier than that these days AND it isn't to do with the GPL license ... it's beacuse those formats are patented and as such ANY linux distro cannot distribute them with their distro and HAVE TO make the user install them afterwards if that bothers you then talk to the patent owners about allowing it to be pre-installed i respect you and your abilities and knowledge jim but to blame linux for these problems is really stretching a point a bit no?
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"