Multi-Touch
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The new Mac notebooks use multi-touch on their touchpads for various on-screen manipulations. The 2 finger scroll is nice and easy to remember but IMO most of the others are kind of arcane. Time will tell if it really "does" much. Rumor is that Apple may introduce a multi-touch tablet in the not too distant future. Microsoft showed us Surface displays a while back that certainly look cool but appear to be a niche market at best. Misters Ballmer and Gates showed a bit of multi-touch in Windows 7 the other day. Here is my question: Forgetting the applications you write and forgetting your users - does multi-touch offer anything to developers themselves. Can any of you fathom where it might be helpful to you in your daily work? Personally, I'm not seeing where it does much. Secondary question: Does multitouch really offer anything to the millions of home users who surf the web, write letters, print birthday cards, etc...
A touch screen (like MS Surface) basically eliminates one of two layers. The mouse layer device becomes your finger. The problem is precision. IMHO, the display you're interacting with would have to be exponentially larger to have the same precision. Works great for kiosk apps (atm, directories and such). Adding a stylus (ala the old palm pilots) just means you need supplemental support, which defeats the purpose of eliminating a layer. Doable and useable? Sure. And it'll happen. The best analogy I can think of is the old rotary phones. People, at first, detested pushing number keys instead of rotating a dial.
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A touch screen (like MS Surface) basically eliminates one of two layers. The mouse layer device becomes your finger. The problem is precision. IMHO, the display you're interacting with would have to be exponentially larger to have the same precision. Works great for kiosk apps (atm, directories and such). Adding a stylus (ala the old palm pilots) just means you need supplemental support, which defeats the purpose of eliminating a layer. Doable and useable? Sure. And it'll happen. The best analogy I can think of is the old rotary phones. People, at first, detested pushing number keys instead of rotating a dial.
Bert delaVega wrote:
The best analogy I can think of is the old rotary phones. People, at first, detested pushing number keys instead of rotating a dial.
Sure but ultimately telephone keypads proved faster and added lots of features due to touchtones for no additional cost. These features were available and apparent to the vast majority of telephone users. I'm just wondering if multitouch will offer anything to a majority of users that can't already be done now without additional cost.
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Bert delaVega wrote:
The best analogy I can think of is the old rotary phones. People, at first, detested pushing number keys instead of rotating a dial.
Sure but ultimately telephone keypads proved faster and added lots of features due to touchtones for no additional cost. These features were available and apparent to the vast majority of telephone users. I'm just wondering if multitouch will offer anything to a majority of users that can't already be done now without additional cost.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
due to touchtones for no additional cost
Ah, that's just it. Touch tone service was an additional cost. People started using dialpad phones with the rotary service at first. Then it shifted to touchtone for both the physical phone and service (faster response time). It won out. Then the phone company made it a standard. That's what I'm getting at. If it makes sense, incrementally people will adopt it and "un-learn" the old way. We're sitting here with a CRT, a keyboard and mouse: CRT - Invented in the 1920's Keyboard - Invented in the late 1800's Mouse - Invented in the 1970's I guess my point is that the rotary dial phone and service offered the majority of users something useful. Touchtone service was an additional cost (and provided the same service to connect) but people adopted it because it was quicker, easier and faster.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
due to touchtones for no additional cost
Ah, that's just it. Touch tone service was an additional cost. People started using dialpad phones with the rotary service at first. Then it shifted to touchtone for both the physical phone and service (faster response time). It won out. Then the phone company made it a standard. That's what I'm getting at. If it makes sense, incrementally people will adopt it and "un-learn" the old way. We're sitting here with a CRT, a keyboard and mouse: CRT - Invented in the 1920's Keyboard - Invented in the late 1800's Mouse - Invented in the 1970's I guess my point is that the rotary dial phone and service offered the majority of users something useful. Touchtone service was an additional cost (and provided the same service to connect) but people adopted it because it was quicker, easier and faster.
Bert delaVega wrote:
Touch tone service was an additional cost.
Good point.
Bert delaVega wrote:
Touchtone service was an additional cost (and provided the same service to connect) but people adopted it because it was quicker, easier and faster.
I'm thinking that the "quicker, easier, faster" wasn't the big deal though. I'm thinking automated menu systems, voice mail, etc... were the driving forces behind the switch. Both for AT&T to develop and "sell" touchtone phones in the first place as well as users adoption of the phones. New features drove the new interface. I'm just trying to imagine what new features (on a PC) will benefit a majority of users that warrant a new interface (multitouch). I'm not suggesting there are no features just trying to get a feel for them and hear others ideas. So far, Paul's seem the most logical for the most users in the near term.
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Bert delaVega wrote:
Touch tone service was an additional cost.
Good point.
Bert delaVega wrote:
Touchtone service was an additional cost (and provided the same service to connect) but people adopted it because it was quicker, easier and faster.
I'm thinking that the "quicker, easier, faster" wasn't the big deal though. I'm thinking automated menu systems, voice mail, etc... were the driving forces behind the switch. Both for AT&T to develop and "sell" touchtone phones in the first place as well as users adoption of the phones. New features drove the new interface. I'm just trying to imagine what new features (on a PC) will benefit a majority of users that warrant a new interface (multitouch). I'm not suggesting there are no features just trying to get a feel for them and hear others ideas. So far, Paul's seem the most logical for the most users in the near term.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
I'm thinking that the "quicker, easier, faster" wasn't the big deal though
Actually, it was. You're probaby way younger than I am. Automated menus systems, IVR and voicemail weren't in the equation until the mid/late 90's. In the beginning (80's), it was not having to wait for the "clicks" and delay. Touchtone made it quicker, easier and faster. Initially, the only feature was speed. There really wasn't any other value added service or benefit to the end user (it was the same call on the same network with the same quality). Instead of a 30 second dial on rotary, it became 10 seconds. That was it. But that benefit changed the entire landscape.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
I'm thinking that the "quicker, easier, faster" wasn't the big deal though
Actually, it was. You're probaby way younger than I am. Automated menus systems, IVR and voicemail weren't in the equation until the mid/late 90's. In the beginning (80's), it was not having to wait for the "clicks" and delay. Touchtone made it quicker, easier and faster. Initially, the only feature was speed. There really wasn't any other value added service or benefit to the end user (it was the same call on the same network with the same quality). Instead of a 30 second dial on rotary, it became 10 seconds. That was it. But that benefit changed the entire landscape.
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I'm 26 so do I. Until it broke in 02(?) my parents kept an old rotary phone around for incoming calls. It's replacement is a faux antique with a J shaped handset and the buttons arranged in a ring like a rotary phone. :rolleyes:
You know, every time I tried to win a bar-bet about being able to count to 1000 using my fingers I always got punched out when I reached 4.... -- El Corazon
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I'm 100% sure there were advantages for AT&T. The end consumer was what I was writing about, which I think was your original question? :laugh:
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leppie wrote:
Now imagine typing on a virtual keyboard, and the gloves giving you feedback
Last time I checked, which is right now, my keyboard gave me feedback. ;)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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The new Mac notebooks use multi-touch on their touchpads for various on-screen manipulations. The 2 finger scroll is nice and easy to remember but IMO most of the others are kind of arcane. Time will tell if it really "does" much. Rumor is that Apple may introduce a multi-touch tablet in the not too distant future. Microsoft showed us Surface displays a while back that certainly look cool but appear to be a niche market at best. Misters Ballmer and Gates showed a bit of multi-touch in Windows 7 the other day. Here is my question: Forgetting the applications you write and forgetting your users - does multi-touch offer anything to developers themselves. Can any of you fathom where it might be helpful to you in your daily work? Personally, I'm not seeing where it does much. Secondary question: Does multitouch really offer anything to the millions of home users who surf the web, write letters, print birthday cards, etc...
All of our products use touch screens. I can't imagine how multi-touch would help, considering some of the issues we've had with single touch. Our environment might be on the fringe, however. Our touch screen is a control panel for a machine. Most operations are via buttons. Our most complicated operation is a slider-like control that sets a numerical quantity.
Software Zen:
delete this;
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Only when I do this; www.microsoft.com, enter. :rolleyes:
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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The new Mac notebooks use multi-touch on their touchpads for various on-screen manipulations. The 2 finger scroll is nice and easy to remember but IMO most of the others are kind of arcane. Time will tell if it really "does" much. Rumor is that Apple may introduce a multi-touch tablet in the not too distant future. Microsoft showed us Surface displays a while back that certainly look cool but appear to be a niche market at best. Misters Ballmer and Gates showed a bit of multi-touch in Windows 7 the other day. Here is my question: Forgetting the applications you write and forgetting your users - does multi-touch offer anything to developers themselves. Can any of you fathom where it might be helpful to you in your daily work? Personally, I'm not seeing where it does much. Secondary question: Does multitouch really offer anything to the millions of home users who surf the web, write letters, print birthday cards, etc...
Won't do anything for me - I just checked and my regular screen position is about 6" from the end of my outstretched fingers... Not sure if this means I have bad eysight or short arms though :)
Apathy Rules - I suppose...
Its not the things you fear that come to get you but all the things that you don't expect
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The new Mac notebooks use multi-touch on their touchpads for various on-screen manipulations. The 2 finger scroll is nice and easy to remember but IMO most of the others are kind of arcane. Time will tell if it really "does" much. Rumor is that Apple may introduce a multi-touch tablet in the not too distant future. Microsoft showed us Surface displays a while back that certainly look cool but appear to be a niche market at best. Misters Ballmer and Gates showed a bit of multi-touch in Windows 7 the other day. Here is my question: Forgetting the applications you write and forgetting your users - does multi-touch offer anything to developers themselves. Can any of you fathom where it might be helpful to you in your daily work? Personally, I'm not seeing where it does much. Secondary question: Does multitouch really offer anything to the millions of home users who surf the web, write letters, print birthday cards, etc...
My (biased) opinion is that we have nothing to loose by just trying them out. I got myy hands on some docs on the internet on how to make one (the same tech used by the Jeff Hahn himself: the idea M$ copied). The only really expensive piece of hardware is the projector, but other than that all you need is a (dopted) webcam, perspex, IR LEDs and a powersource (and some programming skill). All I need now is the perspex, but I have no idea where to get it :). This is no doubt begging a CP article once I get it right!!!
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My (biased) opinion is that we have nothing to loose by just trying them out. I got myy hands on some docs on the internet on how to make one (the same tech used by the Jeff Hahn himself: the idea M$ copied). The only really expensive piece of hardware is the projector, but other than that all you need is a (dopted) webcam, perspex, IR LEDs and a powersource (and some programming skill). All I need now is the perspex, but I have no idea where to get it :). This is no doubt begging a CP article once I get it right!!!
For those who are interested here is a description on how it works[^] and a doc on how to make one[^] (not my original doc, can't find it).