Well it's back to the Salt Mines
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Finally got word (3 dyas late) that I wasn't selected in the first round draft pick at PeopleSoft. I'm not trying out for the NBA or NFL but the selection process seems even more convoluted. There are 26 people going for 12 positions. 16 were interviewed via video conference last week with 5 being selected immediately. 10 more will be interviewed next week for the final 7 positions, though all 7 may not come from that 10. Some of us left from the original 16 may get in. To say I am frustrated is an understatement. Does anyone have any idea what other profession an aggressive, constantly angry, pessimistic, opinionated, pissed off Aussie should try. Now that has to be an attractive package to any prospective employer. Don't bother mentioning labouring, as I don't have experience they don't want to know me. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
You considered getting into games? -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!
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You considered getting into games? -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!
benjymous wrote: You considered getting into games? No I hadn't though that wasn't cause I don't like them just never thought of coding them for a living. I have a pretty diverse background and with the market the way it is at the moment they want me to have current, specific, broad and deep skills to get any job even if it is shit shovelling. Coding Job - I see you haven't been a full time coder for 3 years. Support Job - I see you haven't been in support fulltime. SysAdmin Job - I see you don't have an MCSE, do you have Active Directory? Consultant Job - I see you aren't a smarmy cunt, how do you expect to do this job. I still had to code at my last job. I have held programmer support positions, supported help desks and in my last job supported customers in development, testing and production environments. I was the System and Network Administrator at last company. I was also a technical consultant at last company and had to perform requirements analysis through to implementation of systems using our product, this included going on client sites and travelling inter-state and overseas. I don't know what the problem is, it's not like I have 2 heads or am an idiot. But while in years gone by my diverse skills were seen as a bonus they are now seen as a hinderance. While not happy to take a substantial paycut I will but then they get worried about why a senior guy would be interested. It's a catch-22 that is just driving me up the wall. If I was in/an America(n) I would have gone postal by now. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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benjymous wrote: You considered getting into games? No I hadn't though that wasn't cause I don't like them just never thought of coding them for a living. I have a pretty diverse background and with the market the way it is at the moment they want me to have current, specific, broad and deep skills to get any job even if it is shit shovelling. Coding Job - I see you haven't been a full time coder for 3 years. Support Job - I see you haven't been in support fulltime. SysAdmin Job - I see you don't have an MCSE, do you have Active Directory? Consultant Job - I see you aren't a smarmy cunt, how do you expect to do this job. I still had to code at my last job. I have held programmer support positions, supported help desks and in my last job supported customers in development, testing and production environments. I was the System and Network Administrator at last company. I was also a technical consultant at last company and had to perform requirements analysis through to implementation of systems using our product, this included going on client sites and travelling inter-state and overseas. I don't know what the problem is, it's not like I have 2 heads or am an idiot. But while in years gone by my diverse skills were seen as a bonus they are now seen as a hinderance. While not happy to take a substantial paycut I will but then they get worried about why a senior guy would be interested. It's a catch-22 that is just driving me up the wall. If I was in/an America(n) I would have gone postal by now. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Please hang in there man. Once you hit bottom there's nowhere else to go but up. Also, I've always wondered why people in your situation don't ever think about trying to come down to Africa. No, really. Think about it as a last resort if you will. Great weather, friendly people, laid back, low cost of living...plus your skills would be an asset. Of course the other side of the coin is the lack of anything technologically cutting edge (outside of South Africa that is) and adapting might take some time. But the foreign workers I met while in Botswana all seemed pretty content :-) Just something to think about someday perhaps. Good luck! Senkwe Finish this sentence: We're movin' on up, to the top...
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Finally got word (3 dyas late) that I wasn't selected in the first round draft pick at PeopleSoft. I'm not trying out for the NBA or NFL but the selection process seems even more convoluted. There are 26 people going for 12 positions. 16 were interviewed via video conference last week with 5 being selected immediately. 10 more will be interviewed next week for the final 7 positions, though all 7 may not come from that 10. Some of us left from the original 16 may get in. To say I am frustrated is an understatement. Does anyone have any idea what other profession an aggressive, constantly angry, pessimistic, opinionated, pissed off Aussie should try. Now that has to be an attractive package to any prospective employer. Don't bother mentioning labouring, as I don't have experience they don't want to know me. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Finally got word (3 dyas late) that I wasn't selected in the first round draft pick at PeopleSoft. I'm not trying out for the NBA or NFL but the selection process seems even more convoluted. There are 26 people going for 12 positions. 16 were interviewed via video conference last week with 5 being selected immediately. 10 more will be interviewed next week for the final 7 positions, though all 7 may not come from that 10. Some of us left from the original 16 may get in. To say I am frustrated is an understatement. Does anyone have any idea what other profession an aggressive, constantly angry, pessimistic, opinionated, pissed off Aussie should try. Now that has to be an attractive package to any prospective employer. Don't bother mentioning labouring, as I don't have experience they don't want to know me. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: Does anyone have any idea what other profession an aggressive, constantly angry, pessimistic, opinionated, pissed off Aussie should try. Absolutely: come up with a good product idea for a shareware program (for business, not home users, you don't want that market and all it's hassles) and sell it over the internet, just don't do any part of the work that involves interaction with the customers! ;) (speaking from experience, it's hard not to take what people say personally instead of constructively when you have written all the code yourself) It's a hell of a good living if the idea is right and you're willing to work long hours initially to get it going and more long hours just before and several months after a major update (I'm sitting at home by the ocean in my housecoat sipping coffee and working away right now) All you need is a good understanding of internationalization issues (not just Multibyte character sets, but paper formats, date formatting etc), search engine optmization techniques for your website, US$30.00 a month for an ad-free website hoster in the U.S. and lots of hard work. Why more programmers don't do this is a neverending mystery to me. Who in their right mind would actually want to sit in a cubicle all day leaving their destiny up to beancounters somewhere "upstairs" and having to take any crap that comes their way? Of course you need some other form of employment to get it off the ground so it means double workload for the first year or two but in the long run it sure pays off in so many ways beyond financial.
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Finally got word (3 dyas late) that I wasn't selected in the first round draft pick at PeopleSoft. I'm not trying out for the NBA or NFL but the selection process seems even more convoluted. There are 26 people going for 12 positions. 16 were interviewed via video conference last week with 5 being selected immediately. 10 more will be interviewed next week for the final 7 positions, though all 7 may not come from that 10. Some of us left from the original 16 may get in. To say I am frustrated is an understatement. Does anyone have any idea what other profession an aggressive, constantly angry, pessimistic, opinionated, pissed off Aussie should try. Now that has to be an attractive package to any prospective employer. Don't bother mentioning labouring, as I don't have experience they don't want to know me. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Dell helpdesk ? ;P Elaine :rose: Would you like to meet my teddybear ?
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Finally got word (3 dyas late) that I wasn't selected in the first round draft pick at PeopleSoft. I'm not trying out for the NBA or NFL but the selection process seems even more convoluted. There are 26 people going for 12 positions. 16 were interviewed via video conference last week with 5 being selected immediately. 10 more will be interviewed next week for the final 7 positions, though all 7 may not come from that 10. Some of us left from the original 16 may get in. To say I am frustrated is an understatement. Does anyone have any idea what other profession an aggressive, constantly angry, pessimistic, opinionated, pissed off Aussie should try. Now that has to be an attractive package to any prospective employer. Don't bother mentioning labouring, as I don't have experience they don't want to know me. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: Does anyone have any idea what other profession an aggressive, constantly angry, pessimistic, opinionated, pissed off Aussie should try. Koala rustling? Foster's commercials? Almost anything would be better than the crap you've been going through, Michael...:( "Knock, knock." "Who's there?" "Recursion." "Recursion who?" "Knock, knock..."
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Dell helpdesk ? ;P Elaine :rose: Would you like to meet my teddybear ?
They could use the help:-) But do they sell in Australia? They also hire locals for onsite maintenance, so that might be a possibility. "Knock, knock." "Who's there?" "Recursion." "Recursion who?" "Knock, knock..."
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Finally got word (3 dyas late) that I wasn't selected in the first round draft pick at PeopleSoft. I'm not trying out for the NBA or NFL but the selection process seems even more convoluted. There are 26 people going for 12 positions. 16 were interviewed via video conference last week with 5 being selected immediately. 10 more will be interviewed next week for the final 7 positions, though all 7 may not come from that 10. Some of us left from the original 16 may get in. To say I am frustrated is an understatement. Does anyone have any idea what other profession an aggressive, constantly angry, pessimistic, opinionated, pissed off Aussie should try. Now that has to be an attractive package to any prospective employer. Don't bother mentioning labouring, as I don't have experience they don't want to know me. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Get Pissed, or become Self-employed Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I am sick of fighting with Martin, I think I will ignore his posts from here on in, and spend the time working on articles instead. Christian Graus
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Finally got word (3 dyas late) that I wasn't selected in the first round draft pick at PeopleSoft. I'm not trying out for the NBA or NFL but the selection process seems even more convoluted. There are 26 people going for 12 positions. 16 were interviewed via video conference last week with 5 being selected immediately. 10 more will be interviewed next week for the final 7 positions, though all 7 may not come from that 10. Some of us left from the original 16 may get in. To say I am frustrated is an understatement. Does anyone have any idea what other profession an aggressive, constantly angry, pessimistic, opinionated, pissed off Aussie should try. Now that has to be an attractive package to any prospective employer. Don't bother mentioning labouring, as I don't have experience they don't want to know me. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Just go back to college. In three years, you will have a BA and the economy will have improved.
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Please hang in there man. Once you hit bottom there's nowhere else to go but up. Also, I've always wondered why people in your situation don't ever think about trying to come down to Africa. No, really. Think about it as a last resort if you will. Great weather, friendly people, laid back, low cost of living...plus your skills would be an asset. Of course the other side of the coin is the lack of anything technologically cutting edge (outside of South Africa that is) and adapting might take some time. But the foreign workers I met while in Botswana all seemed pretty content :-) Just something to think about someday perhaps. Good luck! Senkwe Finish this sentence: We're movin' on up, to the top...
Senkwe Chanda wrote: Please hang in there man. Once you hit bottom there's nowhere else to go but up. Also, I've always wondered why people in your situation don't ever think about trying to come down to Africa. No, really. Think about it as a last resort if you will. Great weather, friendly people, laid back, low cost of living...plus your skills would be an asset. Of course the other side of the coin is the lack of anything technologically cutting edge (outside of South Africa that is) and adapting might take some time. But the foreign workers I met while in Botswana all seemed pretty content :) Don't know why I hadn't thought of it but you are right about the fact I hadn't. I may seriously start thinking soon. The biggest obstacle is a wife and 2 kids. It's a big thing taking my son out of school and wife away from family to move to a new country. Just have to see how I go. Thanks for the thought provoking reply. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Michael Martin wrote: Does anyone have any idea what other profession an aggressive, constantly angry, pessimistic, opinionated, pissed off Aussie should try. Absolutely: come up with a good product idea for a shareware program (for business, not home users, you don't want that market and all it's hassles) and sell it over the internet, just don't do any part of the work that involves interaction with the customers! ;) (speaking from experience, it's hard not to take what people say personally instead of constructively when you have written all the code yourself) It's a hell of a good living if the idea is right and you're willing to work long hours initially to get it going and more long hours just before and several months after a major update (I'm sitting at home by the ocean in my housecoat sipping coffee and working away right now) All you need is a good understanding of internationalization issues (not just Multibyte character sets, but paper formats, date formatting etc), search engine optmization techniques for your website, US$30.00 a month for an ad-free website hoster in the U.S. and lots of hard work. Why more programmers don't do this is a neverending mystery to me. Who in their right mind would actually want to sit in a cubicle all day leaving their destiny up to beancounters somewhere "upstairs" and having to take any crap that comes their way? Of course you need some other form of employment to get it off the ground so it means double workload for the first year or two but in the long run it sure pays off in so many ways beyond financial.
J Cardinal wrote: It's a hell of a good living if the idea is right and you're willing to work long hours initially to get it going and more long hours just before and several months after a major update (I'm sitting at home by the ocean in my housecoat sipping coffee and working away right now) Good idea, will have a think over the next couple of weeks while still looking for a paying job. By the way what product do you produce? Do you have a website I can visit? No I'm not looking to steal your idea, I am just interested to see what other CPians are doing. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Dell helpdesk ? ;P Elaine :rose: Would you like to meet my teddybear ?
Trollslayer (at work) wrote: Dell helpdesk ? ;P Don't laugh, I would do this at the moment as long as they aren't paying student rates. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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They could use the help:-) But do they sell in Australia? They also hire locals for onsite maintenance, so that might be a possibility. "Knock, knock." "Who's there?" "Recursion." "Recursion who?" "Knock, knock..."
Roger Wright wrote: They could use the help :) But do they sell in Australia? They most certainlly do. Roger Wright wrote: They also hire locals for onsite maintenance, so that might be a possibility. I didn't think about this possibility, I shall pursue. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Michael Martin wrote: Does anyone have any idea what other profession an aggressive, constantly angry, pessimistic, opinionated, pissed off Aussie should try. Koala rustling? Foster's commercials? Almost anything would be better than the crap you've been going through, Michael...:( "Knock, knock." "Who's there?" "Recursion." "Recursion who?" "Knock, knock..."
Roger Wright wrote: Koala rustling? Is there a market for illegal Koalas I don't know about? :confused: Roger Wright wrote: Foster's commercials? Not for that shit beer. They changed the recipe in the last couple of years of the 1980's and it lost it's taste. Roger Wright wrote: Almost anything would be better than the crap you've been going through, Michael... :( Your not wrong there, but unfortunately they seem to want extensive experience before they will look at you. Even if it is to simply shovel shit. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Just go back to college. In three years, you will have a BA and the economy will have improved.
Martin Marvinski wrote: Just go back to college. In three years, you will have a BA and the economy will have improved. Good idea though Bullshit Artist is not my preferred degree. I am more than half way throught a Bachelor of Information Technology I was doing part-time as a distance education student. I stopped dead second semester of 1998 (my fourth year of six) when my little sister died. I want to start it up again (was going to be this year) but fulltime will not be an option as I have a wife and 2 kids to support. I haven't looked into it but I think unemployment benefits change while doing uni as opposed to just being a dole bludger. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Roger Wright wrote: Koala rustling? Is there a market for illegal Koalas I don't know about? :confused: Roger Wright wrote: Foster's commercials? Not for that shit beer. They changed the recipe in the last couple of years of the 1980's and it lost it's taste. Roger Wright wrote: Almost anything would be better than the crap you've been going through, Michael... :( Your not wrong there, but unfortunately they seem to want extensive experience before they will look at you. Even if it is to simply shovel shit. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: they seem to want extensive experience before they will look at you It was like that 10 years ago, too, when I was first laid off. And they were whining about being unable to find help then! I wonder if the morons who do the hiring will ever learn? Do they really think that you, as a programmer of some set of languages and user of some set of tools, are incapable of learning new ones in very short order? Or that your skills are somehow inferior because you haven't been a full-time programmer recently. Ridiculous! "Knock, knock." "Who's there?" "Recursion." "Recursion who?" "Knock, knock..."