First programming language for high school students?

[DrFrankenstein90]

I'll tell you my experience as a self-taught teenager programmer (I'm 18 now). Maybe that'll be good input... Maybe. I started at his age with VB 4 (!! because I had it...), then quickly switched to VB.NET when I saw an ad about the free editions of Visual Studio (http://www.microsoft.com/express). Some time before I had my try with C++ and Java and didn't really pick it up. I did some mIRC scripting too (interesting to try, too). So yes, I picked VB up and liked it for its english-like syntax and visual designer. I started making a calculator program (good startup project if you ask me). So I drew its interface in Paint and recopied it in Visual Studio. Then I started double-clicking the UI elements (mainly buttons!) and wrote code... outputBox.Text &= "5" for example. I knew how to do basic coding elements (conditions, selects, functions, subs) from my little mIRC/BASIC/C++ experience, and I've read about (built-in) types in my C++ book. If I didn't know how to do something (for example converting from String to Integer (or Double)), I'd hit F1 and search. That worked well. One tip I can give you at this time... it doesn't matter if your son writes shitty code or even hacks when he's beginning. I wouldn't recommend starting directly with OOP. Since I saw some assembler, I thought it would be interesting to try to dis-ASM my own program. I knew what .NET meant, and I knew it ran its own bytecode, like Java. So I Googled for .NET disassembler and downloaded Reflector. That program was a kind of revelation. I didn't look at the disASMs for long, I was more interested by how it showed the elements of my program in a tree. Yes, that was how I was introduced to OOP. Interesting, huh? Yes, I've read some disassembly. Hovering my mouse over an instruction made a tooltip appear, explaining what it meant. Disassembling simple structures like my_var = 5 * other_var would be interesting. Reflector also acted as a really good .NET API reference and also showed me how that thing worked. Priceless. It also made me find out about C#, and I liked its syntax better. Reminded me of C++, JavaScript and mIRC. So I downloaded it, and made the switch. As simple as that. After that, well, some practicing. I eventually started writing more complex programs, learned more about OOP, threads and the like. I wrote a IRC client stub using smartirc4net. I never finished my calculator :-D . Then, I switched to C++. Why? Because it resembled C# and it was multiplatform, and everyone used it, etc. etc. For

[T Mac Oz]

Joe Woodbury wrote:

A good programmer needs to learn the basic procedural aspects of programming which lie at the heart of everything.

True that :) . Studies have shown that the first programming language learned shapes the way a programmer approaches design & code for the rest of their life. VB might well be easy to learn but for a first language something a bit more challenging - that will provide a better understanding across a wider range of s/w development concepts - is probably the go (and there's no concept you can't model in C/C++). Rather than starting off with graphical apps though, I'd suggest the instant gratification of ye olde "Hello World!" type command line apps & moving into ascii graphics for "Life" before venturing into GUI based apps. Event-driven programming is a whole 'nother world of hurt. If C/C++ is a bit too heavy, try Java or C#. Of course, if you want to future-proof your kid with parallel programming concepts, it's gotta be Erlang.

T-Mac-Oz

[Jonathan C Dickinson]

It's tricky. VB vs C#, I am a Basic refugee myself and I must say after learning C# I found it much easier to learn other languages.

He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Chineese Proverb] Jonathan C Dickinson (C# Software Engineer)

[Jonathan C Dickinson]

Lolcode claims on their website that it is good for teaching basic concepts. Go on: teach him code like:

ON CATURDAY
IM IN YR BED
I IZ SLEEPIN!!10
VISIBLE "Z!"
KTHX
KTHXBYE

You will be infinitely popular with the English department!!!

He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Chineese Proverb] Jonathan C Dickinson (C# Software Engineer)

[EHaskins]

I meant on this particular topic. I'm only 16, and I've had to teach other people programming. Sorry for the confusion. EDIT: I did also say my age at the end of the post, but I should have clarified.

Total geek! :)

modified on Wednesday, July 2, 2008 2:25 AM

[User 3947158]

C# should be perfect.. its simple.. easy to understand.. and pretty robust(considering your son uses it in future too)

Que saraa saraa.. Whaever will be will be..

[Rizean]

I'd have to go with C# as it leads in to C++ very easily and I supect he wants to write games. There is nothing better than C# for getting into game development with XNA. They have a whole series of videos for free from MS on game dev with XNA.

[Peter Kassenaar]

maxxx# wrote:

Also, instant gratification is good at that age (!) so something GUI has the appeal of getting something visual up and running quickly.

I think this is correct, considering the age of your son. Have you considered using [Flash] ActionScript? The current AS 3.0 programming model is quite nice IMHO and lots of documentation and visual appealing examples are now available. I think AS is now mature enough to teach the basics of programming and architectural principles yet maintaining the connection with the 15 year old world. As a development environment you could use the Flash authoring tool, or something like Flex Builder. Good luck, Peter.

[V 0]

Why don't you try simple games with GDI+? Snake, sokoban, ... stuff like that. I always love the fact you can draw items and make them move. I would recommend a C type language though, VB is really nasty ;)

V.
Stop smoking so you can: Enjoy longer the money you save. Moviereview Archive

[V 0]

DrFrankenstein90 wrote:

And next year we're starting COBOL

:confused: X| I never touched COBOL anymore outside college. (5 years ago) They still teach that? Never take a job to do COBOL, that's for the 'old' guys. I don't mean this negative, but those who are using COBOL are gradually switching. What do they teach these kids these days. :-\

V.
Stop smoking so you can: Enjoy longer the money you save. Moviereview Archive

[Hamid Taebi]

I saw a lot of people asked about which language is better for us or which lanuage is better for money here and other places but I think it depends to you and your work and your country and your clinets we cant say that c++ is better or C# or vb and etc whats your favorite and your occupation? VB is easy C# is powerful and c++ is very powerful and hard (because I know it :-D ).

[momo17]

Hello. Teach him C#. This si the best languange he can learn and it's easy.

[firegryphon]

These are the reason I liked teaching people Delphi back in the mid-late 90s. Verbosity helps people get both what is happening and strictness keeps them honest for future languages.

[firegryphon]

Amen! Finally someone suggested the original alter of Anders. I learned to program first with basic on a trash 80 in jr high, but didn't get hooked until learning Turbo Pascal in high school.

[HuntrCkr]

Considering that I myself have programmed in virtually every language that any poster has mentioned, I would personally also recommend C# I have personally watched many a potentially brilliant programmer become useless because they were taught with VB. Not saying there is anything wrong with VB. I think it's a great language actually, but not for learning... Let me explain 1) Case insensitivity - This is the biggest problem with this language. It makes programmers lazy. Period. :( Once they have gotten use to not having to type in the correct case, any chances of them ever moving on to another language is lost. 2) Not having to declare variables - I have this same gripe with Java. Once you get into the habit of not declaring your variables, you get into the habit of forgetting that your data is actually represented in a certain way on the PC, and then you learn even less of how your computer actually works. 3) Syntax lessness - I know that's not a word, but you know what I mean. The semi-colon in coding is a big thing. And if it wasn't, the most used languages in the world would have gotten rid of it already a long time ago. I have had many a VB programmer give up on learning other languages because they had to put a semi-colon at the end of statements. In short, I recommend C#(or a C based language) simply because it teaches good programming practices. After that, any programming language is good, because you understand whats going on. I myself do programming in PHP, Java, and VB on a regular basis for work projects, and they are perfect for some of the projects, so nobody has to jump down my throat that I am bad mouthing VB,(insert other language of choice...) Just my 0.02c ;P

[GYAMTSO]

Ruby (www.ruby-lang.org)? It's immensely powerful, lots of libraries that are easy to install with a single command, and it (the language and it's community to be precise) focuses on readability and good practices. A friend of mine has a nice experience of using it to automate tests of a large (10M members) social network site. She was assigned with a test of testing things manually; fortunatelly, her boyfriend is a software developer. It took just a few quick lessons and she's now writing her own tests (no programming background whatsoever). Just my $0.02 MB

[CrankDev]

C (not C++).

[lnkgoeng]

I don't know if people understand what technology is all about:mad:. Surely assembler, C or any other low level language is not the way to understand the computer - is just that people often refuse the change and get stuck deep inside the computer chips. I can see a lot of purist :suss: trying to lure a 15 years old kid into joining their outdated and self proclaimed groups:mad:. To teach a kid any language developed in the 80's is like denying him an ipod and give him a cd player. Let the kid have fun :) with programming he still have homeworks to do. Give him the simplest of any language. i will suggest anything that has nothing to do with low level maching code:mad:. Almost all new languages addresses the concepts of datatypes, functions and objects :-D . Thats all he need to know in order to be able to tackle pointers, binary, octal & hexadecimal numbers later in life. Don't impose things on this kid:mad:. Only a teacher can device a simpler way of explaining something as huge as computer programming.

[User 3614320]

Dear Mr: PASCAL language is the best language for teaching programming. the PASCAL was design for teaching purpose. Regards Computer Teacher.

[oooshola]

6 years ago at my high school they were teaching C++ as the first language, and I very liked it. However, I became sick the day that my teacher taught OOP, and was somewhat lost for a while when I came back to school. I think my university had it right--which taught Java. It is more straight forward and less ambiguous than how C++ can be, and it (painlessly?) instills the following good programming practices that are seen in many languages: -straight forward OOP (no extra .h header files reqired, like in C++, etc) -reference vs. value -case sensitivity awareness (i.e. VB can sometimes mislead the beginner in when this matters) -great FREE IDEs out there (netbeans, eclipse) ...many more