Gold members are abusing this site
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
And none answered the poor guy's question
Are you under the impression that it's a requirement that all questions asked in the forums must be answered?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
all questions asked in the forums must be answered?
Not the dumb questions or ones that have a very obvious answer that can be found with a little effort.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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When people ask the same questions over and over, and refuse to learn, or to do any research of their own, what should we do ? This is a free service, our reward is seeing people get better, I'd have thought.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
Christian Graus wrote:
ask the same questions over and over, and refuse to learn, or to do any research of their own, what should we do ?
Do nothing but chastise them over their laziness. I was always under the impression programmers/software developers should have some kind of problem solving skills, and if people rush to help idiots over simple little things, how are they to develop any serious skills?
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Probably the programmers are frustrating exactly from the fact that the questions are too “simple”. The answers of these questions are in the books and/or universities…not in the internet forum, even if this forum name is CP.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
The answers of these questions are in the books and/or universities…not in the internet forum, even if this forum name is CP.
What? This is a forum brother. A forum? The best way to get an answer. Give me a textbook that gives you a live discussion and different perspective on solving a problem.
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
seems you need a masters degree in computer science to post a question !
No so. One just needs at least half a brain to post a question. It is the vague and lame questions that can be likely answered by a quick google search that chap me.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
Paul Conrad wrote:
No so. One just needs at least half a brain to post a question. It is the vague and lame questions that can be likely answered by a quick google search that chap me.
Why is it OK to post a question on google and not ask on CP? CP is a popular website that appears in most searches because of the heavy duty information that exist on this site.Most of the folks here are beginners at the start of their learning process.Have you ever thought that they may not know what they are looking for? They read an article that they found in their search result but that they didnt understand it? They are just looking for a professional that can help them understand a concept in a simple way.
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A bad question is one that can't be answered. Like 'when I click on a data grid, I get an object somehing exception HELP !!! URGENT !!!!'
Bassam Saoud wrote:
could have been easily been answered if there was a will to help
Answering the really easy questions doesn't help. I am not really answering much anymore b/c I get downvoted all the time for trying to lead a horse to water instead of just throwing water at them, too many people here don't want to learn, they want someone to do their job for them, perpetually.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
Christian Graus wrote:
Answering the really easy questions doesn't help. I am not really answering much anymore b/c I get downvoted all the time for trying to lead a horse to water instead of just throwing water at them, too many people here don't want to learn, they want someone to do their job for them, perpetually.
Downvoted? who cares man ! You guys are really respected by the community. I mean what do you want more that your blog being constantly visited, articles and so on.
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Since you went to the trouble of bringing in actual examples, i'll do the same. Here are two recent questions from the WebDev forum: Firefox is the odd one out[^] This question is phrased poorly - he's obviously frustrated because code that worked in IE doesn't work in Firefox, and lets that get the better of him and his question. Still, he provides enough information to give a clear answer: the relevant code that worked for him in IE. I'm not sure that i was able to solve his problem, but i do feel confident in the ability of my reply to correct the problem he described. Setting style to a div's overflow scroll bar[^] I'll probably never know what this poor soul's real question was. He managed to state it in such a vague, imprecise manner that i felt compelled to fall back on a humorously literal interpretation for my first reply. He takes another chance at it, but again throws away the opportunity to actually describe the problem he's seeing. I'm forced to assume that he is working with such a poor understanding of the systems involved that when his cargo-cult efforts to achieve results went awry he was left without any clear idea of even what it was he was trying to do. Or perhaps he was simply too lazy to bother typing up a description of what he saw on the screen before him. It's questions like this, and the folk asking them, that suck all the life from the forums.
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
Shog9 wrote:
I'll probably never know what this poor soul's real question was. He managed to state it in such a vague, imprecise manner that i felt compelled to fall back on a humorously literal interpretation for my first reply. He takes another chance at it, but again throws away the opportunity to actually describe the problem he's seeing. I'm forced to assume that he is working with such a poor understanding of the systems involved that when his cargo-cult efforts to achieve results went awry he was left without any clear idea of even what it was he was trying to do. Or perhaps he was simply too lazy to bother typing up a description of what he saw on the screen before him. It's questions like this, and the folk asking them, that suck all the life from the forums.
Well you did answer after all, I mean you took the time to understand the question and answer. I am not sure English is his first language even though He is in the united states.
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
It seems you need a masters degree in computer science to post a question
No, you need just a little bit of sanity to ask question. Many times, I start writing a question, mainly on CP forums and I end up canceling it all together. Why? In the process of writing the question, I realize what I need and figure out what the solution to my question is. What is annoying is that, most of the questions, it does not look they even did any effort of understanding what the question is all about. come on, if some one does not understand what a delegate is, how can you expect him/her to answer it in in interview. at least that should be a wake up call to go and learn what in the world is a delegate. I don't think it will be learned to throwing a question on CP. It is perfectly ok for someone to ask a question something like I am trying to learn about delegates, any pointers, websites ..... or I did read such and such and I need to understand/learn about .... you see this shows some effort on the questioners side. Just my 2 cents.
Yusuf
Yusuf wrote:
you see this shows some effort on the questioners side.
Never knew it was required ! The guy have a question. Answer or skip its your choice.
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A bad question is one that can't be answered. Like 'when I click on a data grid, I get an object somehing exception HELP !!! URGENT !!!!'
Bassam Saoud wrote:
could have been easily been answered if there was a will to help
Answering the really easy questions doesn't help. I am not really answering much anymore b/c I get downvoted all the time for trying to lead a horse to water instead of just throwing water at them, too many people here don't want to learn, they want someone to do their job for them, perpetually.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
I tend to agree with you - if the person shows in their question a desire to 'learn' rather than just a desire to 'solve' then I tend to be far more willing and happy to answer their question. I find this in work generally - it's almost as if the 'can you solve this for me?' questions sometimes feel like someone trying to cut bits out of me whereas the 'can you help me learn?' questions are like a fresh breeze on a summer's day. Ooh I'm getting all poetic :-\
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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When people ask the same questions over and over, and refuse to learn, or to do any research of their own, what should we do ? This is a free service, our reward is seeing people get better, I'd have thought.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
Christian Graus wrote:
When people ask the same questions over and over, and refuse to learn, or to do any research of their own
They are different people Chris, Its not the same person asking the same questions
Christian Graus wrote:
what should we do ?
Maximum, dont answer them.
Christian Graus wrote:
This is a free service, our reward is seeing people get better, I'd have thought.
Yes you are right, and people are being better ! I can give you examples if you want ;)
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In both cases, the questions are simple and could have been easily been answered if there was a will to help. I mean I understand the frustration of cross posting or posting programming questions in the lounge and all that crap, but I think its becoming more of an "Obsession" and whats up with the Good Question/Bad Question buttons? I thought all questions are good.Thats what we were thought in schools anyways! It seems you need a masters degree in computer science to post a question !
Bassam Saoud wrote:
I thought all questions are good.Thats what we were thought in schools anyways! It seems you need a masters degree in computer science to post a question !
Well, School lied to you then. There seriously are stupid/bad questions, and many of them get posted on forums as well.
--------------------------- Blogging about SQL, Technology and many other things
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Give beginners a break! Thread[^] or Another Thread[^] Have fun, but at least answer the questions. Okay, it’s a cross post, but does that have to be mentioned 10 times by 10 different members? And none answered the poor guy's question. This is not 1 in a million, its happening all the time!
Where's the abuse?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
i agree some of the people here take the chance to just rip the poster up rather than address the question. say nothing if you have nothing nice to say. here is an MVP being so helpful http://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/View.aspx?fid=3785&tid=2640834[^] unless it is a soapbox thread then flame on
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Oakman wrote:
all questions asked in the forums must be answered?
Not the dumb questions or ones that have a very obvious answer that can be found with a little effort.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
Paul Conrad wrote:
Not the dumb questions or ones that have a very obvious answer that can be found with a little effort.
AFAIK, no member of CP, including guys like Christian who have gone into some of the kiddie forums like ASP.NET and answered question after question are required to answer even one. They do it because they think they should. And I admire his patience and desire to help others. It's a loss that he is beginning to burn out. I have tried very occasionally to help out in some of the programming forums, but these days it's obvious that the old saw has been rewritten: Give a hungry man a fish and you get a 5; try to teach him how to fish and you get a 1.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Paul Conrad wrote:
Not the dumb questions or ones that have a very obvious answer that can be found with a little effort.
AFAIK, no member of CP, including guys like Christian who have gone into some of the kiddie forums like ASP.NET and answered question after question are required to answer even one. They do it because they think they should. And I admire his patience and desire to help others. It's a loss that he is beginning to burn out. I have tried very occasionally to help out in some of the programming forums, but these days it's obvious that the old saw has been rewritten: Give a hungry man a fish and you get a 5; try to teach him how to fish and you get a 1.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Give a hungry man a fish and you get a 5; try to teach him how to fish and you get a 1.
Very good. Seems like that. Get a 1 vote chaps me when simply telling someone to look a little harder or try something, then come back when stumped. I refuse to do anyone's coding for them, unless they want to send me $100/hr via PayPal ;P
Oakman wrote:
beginning to burn out.
Same here. I used to answer a lot of questions in the programming forums but the simple idiot questions have gotten to the point I don't even bother. That is why I am in the Lounge or Soapbox more these days. Even the Soapbox is burning me out with all the Ilion garbage.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Shog9 wrote:
I'll probably never know what this poor soul's real question was. He managed to state it in such a vague, imprecise manner that i felt compelled to fall back on a humorously literal interpretation for my first reply. He takes another chance at it, but again throws away the opportunity to actually describe the problem he's seeing. I'm forced to assume that he is working with such a poor understanding of the systems involved that when his cargo-cult efforts to achieve results went awry he was left without any clear idea of even what it was he was trying to do. Or perhaps he was simply too lazy to bother typing up a description of what he saw on the screen before him. It's questions like this, and the folk asking them, that suck all the life from the forums.
Well you did answer after all, I mean you took the time to understand the question and answer. I am not sure English is his first language even though He is in the united states.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Well you did answer after all, I mean you took the time to understand the question and answer.
I took time, yes. But i never got the satisfaction of understanding anything. Which is another frequent irritation: threads that dead-end because the person asking the question found what they needed (here or elsewhere) or gave up in frustration or... but we have to guess, because rarely is anyone polite enough to bother posting a final reply, even "kthnxbye", and so in cases like this there's still that little nagging voice in the back of my mind, repeating that damn vague question over and over again while i sleep or shower, trying to flush out any limited understanding from some dark forgotten corner of my brain, until curiosity has turned to bitterness. :shrug: I get fed up and stop answering questions entirely for a few days, weeks, months... Others have more direct ways of taking out their frustration.
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
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A bad question is one that can't be answered. Like 'when I click on a data grid, I get an object somehing exception HELP !!! URGENT !!!!'
Bassam Saoud wrote:
could have been easily been answered if there was a will to help
Answering the really easy questions doesn't help. I am not really answering much anymore b/c I get downvoted all the time for trying to lead a horse to water instead of just throwing water at them, too many people here don't want to learn, they want someone to do their job for them, perpetually.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
Christian Graus wrote:
A bad question is one that can't be answered. Like 'when I click on a data grid, I get an object somehing exception HELP !!! URGENT !!!!'
Christian is absolutely right here, Bassam. And there's another impact that would be fair to acknowledge - it takes time for good programmers to go through forum questions and provide good answers. Questions like the above are happening with such frequency that it's taking longer and longer just to find a reasonable question. When there's too much junk to wade through on a forum, the best responders are less inclined to participate - and why should they? We should never forget that a good answer on a forum is a donation of their time. So when the good responders leave, who's left? Just the junk-posters? A forum without standards can denigrate very quickly. It's appropriate for CP to encourage some base standards of acceptability in the questions that get posted.
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Paul Conrad wrote:
No so. One just needs at least half a brain to post a question. It is the vague and lame questions that can be likely answered by a quick google search that chap me.
Why is it OK to post a question on google and not ask on CP? CP is a popular website that appears in most searches because of the heavy duty information that exist on this site.Most of the folks here are beginners at the start of their learning process.Have you ever thought that they may not know what they are looking for? They read an article that they found in their search result but that they didnt understand it? They are just looking for a professional that can help them understand a concept in a simple way.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Have you ever thought that they may not know what they are looking for?
Sure. Here's a question back to you. Have you ever thought there may be mooches or lazy leeches out there wanting people to do their work for them without learning anything at all?
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Christian Graus wrote:
When people ask the same questions over and over, and refuse to learn, or to do any research of their own
They are different people Chris, Its not the same person asking the same questions
Christian Graus wrote:
what should we do ?
Maximum, dont answer them.
Christian Graus wrote:
This is a free service, our reward is seeing people get better, I'd have thought.
Yes you are right, and people are being better ! I can give you examples if you want ;)
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Christian Graus wrote: When people ask the same questions over and over, and refuse to learn, or to do any research of their own They are different people Chris, Its not the same person asking the same questions
I think CP needs another forum for Homework Questions. Then person #2 does not have to ask the identical question, he can just wait for someone to ask a question and someone to answer the question. He gets his homework done with no effort or learning at all. We could have special rules for Cross-posting encouraged, and stupid questions with no basic research allowed. All students could then research the available answers (although I doubt he would) to find the best one. Maybe force them to look at every cross-posted question and every answer, and rate each answer and question 1 through N for best to worst. BTW - Personally I don't think it is the Gold members abusing the site.
Gary
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
And none answered the poor guy's question
Are you under the impression that it's a requirement that all questions asked in the forums must be answered?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
Bassam Saoud wrote: And none answered the poor guy's question Are you under the impression that it's a requirement that all questions asked in the forums must be answered?
Excellent Question!
Gary