Are you smarter than a 17-year-old?
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Meh. I got all 6. Brought it to my 18 y/o son (today is his birthday!) who is interning in the mechanical engineering office across the hall and he too got all 6.
Like I said, it depends on the 17 yo. If knowledge is valued in the home, then any kid is going to be knowledgable, despite the failings of the school system.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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No, my reference here is actual books made of paper. One such book is called 'lies my teacher told me', from memory. I believe that's the book that actually examined the history books used in high schools and gave example passages and explained what parts were actually true.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Like I said, it depends on the 17 yo. If knowledge is valued in the home, then any kid is going to be knowledgable, despite the failings of the school system.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Can you provide a couple examples of historical "lies" being taught? Keep in mind, I don't doubt you/them - I'm just curious where my historical "knowledge" falls.
Well, for starters, it was well known that the world was round when Columbus sailed. He was looking for gold. The main area that springs to mind is that Indians were a successful agrarian culture before the white man came, the image of war like Indians attacking settlers is the result of them being on the run because they were themselves under attack from folks who wanted their land. I'd imagine you'd know that, but it's not the image given in history books. In fact, the book published the section on Columbus from one history book and 90% of what was stated, was made up ( that is, stuff we plain don't know, not stuff that was outright lies ).
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Well, for starters, it was well known that the world was round when Columbus sailed. He was looking for gold. The main area that springs to mind is that Indians were a successful agrarian culture before the white man came, the image of war like Indians attacking settlers is the result of them being on the run because they were themselves under attack from folks who wanted their land. I'd imagine you'd know that, but it's not the image given in history books. In fact, the book published the section on Columbus from one history book and 90% of what was stated, was made up ( that is, stuff we plain don't know, not stuff that was outright lies ).
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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I can only speak for my local schools but the Columbus / Indian garbage you mention is pretty common in elementary school K-4 but starts to get fleshed out in middle school and debunked completely in high school.
OK - well, that's something, I guess. I just don't understand why it gets taught at all ? Well, I do, it's part of the creation myth. It's a shame tho.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Teachers spend a significant amount of time: Teaching a politically correct version of American History. Teaching why it is okay for Sally to have two mothers. Not harming Johnny's self esteem. Passing the lil fuckers because it looks silly when they can no longer fit their legs under a desk.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Yeah, I have friends who are teachers in the US and they make it sound pretty grim.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Well, for starters, it was well known that the world was round when Columbus sailed. He was looking for gold. The main area that springs to mind is that Indians were a successful agrarian culture before the white man came, the image of war like Indians attacking settlers is the result of them being on the run because they were themselves under attack from folks who wanted their land. I'd imagine you'd know that, but it's not the image given in history books. In fact, the book published the section on Columbus from one history book and 90% of what was stated, was made up ( that is, stuff we plain don't know, not stuff that was outright lies ).
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
Christian Graus wrote:
Indians were a successful agrarian culture before the white man came
I'm sure you meant to say "some." There were almost 2 million Amerinds living in the Americas in 1500, and they were hardly homogeneous. There were nations that were considerably beyond being labeled agrarian. Others that were nomadic stone-age hunter-gatherers. Many Amerind cultures glorified the warrior caste and could reasonably be considered blood-thirsty, more than one is believed to have been cannibalistic (The word itself comes from the name of an island in the West Indies), and some were, as you said, peaceable agrarians. Some of those, however, began to attack Europeans when they realised that the whites were taking their land - peacefully, but permanently. The Powhattans, for instance attacked Virginia's first settlement (Jamestown, which they had earlier saved from starvation) even though the English settlers did not (by European standards) provoke the attack. Another untruth often taught in history books is that the majority of Indians were killed by cavalry raids and rapacious settlers. The truth is the equally tragic but far more plebeian case that the great decline in population occurred because of small pox, and other diseases that had not been known on these continents until the Europeans brought them over. I don't wish to be pedantic, but its important that one set of untruths not get replaced by another, even by accident.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Christian Graus wrote:
Indians were a successful agrarian culture before the white man came
I'm sure you meant to say "some." There were almost 2 million Amerinds living in the Americas in 1500, and they were hardly homogeneous. There were nations that were considerably beyond being labeled agrarian. Others that were nomadic stone-age hunter-gatherers. Many Amerind cultures glorified the warrior caste and could reasonably be considered blood-thirsty, more than one is believed to have been cannibalistic (The word itself comes from the name of an island in the West Indies), and some were, as you said, peaceable agrarians. Some of those, however, began to attack Europeans when they realised that the whites were taking their land - peacefully, but permanently. The Powhattans, for instance attacked Virginia's first settlement (Jamestown, which they had earlier saved from starvation) even though the English settlers did not (by European standards) provoke the attack. Another untruth often taught in history books is that the majority of Indians were killed by cavalry raids and rapacious settlers. The truth is the equally tragic but far more plebeian case that the great decline in population occurred because of small pox, and other diseases that had not been known on these continents until the Europeans brought them over. I don't wish to be pedantic, but its important that one set of untruths not get replaced by another, even by accident.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Yeah, I did know that. In fact, I've read that a major reason for the successful settlement of the USA, is the number of Indians who had died due to disease brought about by folks who arrived before the Jamestown/Plymouth Rock settlers.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Are you surprised that in June 2004 when Achieve, Inc., a bipartisan, nonprofit education organization formed by governors and prominent business leaders, found that math and English tests for high school diplomas require only middle school knowledge, and that those math graduation tests measure only what students in other countries learn in the seventh grade? Are you surprised that 2000 mathematicians and scientists, including four Nobel Prize recipients and two winners of a prestigious math prize, the Fields Medal, deplore math teaching methods saying they are 'horrifyingly short on basics' Are you surprised that in February 2005 a report stated that China produced 4 times more BS engineering degrees than the U.S., and Japan twice as many. Nobel Prize-winning scientist R.E.Smalley of Rice University reported "by 2010, 90% of all Ph.D. physical scientists and engineers in the world will be Asian living in Asia." The International Math & Science Study reported U.S. 12th graders were out-performed by 90% of other nations in math and 76% in science. In advanced math the US was out performed by 94% and in science by 100% of other nations. The American Association for the Advancement of Science reported 90% of math books and 100% of science text books are unacceptable. Are you suprised that the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) reported in 2005 that the testing of 300,000 students nation-wide showed that 82% of 12th grade students were not proficient in math and science - - even worse than 10 years earlier. 73% of 4th graders failed to gain proficiency scores. 8th graders showed no improvement in the past 10 years. Are you surprised to learn that, in 2006, 65% of 12-graders were not proficient in reading, a worse result than 1992 when the test was initiated. Are you surprised that the president of the American Association of Physics Teachers and his review committee say, 'none of the 12 textbooks used by 85% of middle school students have an acceptable level of accuracy' - - and that 'honors high school texts are no more difficult than an eighth grade reader was before World War II.'
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Are you suprised that many parents now depend entirely on the school system to educate their children? Weekends are all about "quality time" not sitting down to study a book together. Surely a childs education is the parents responsibility. If the school system is lacking then its their job to find a better school or pick up the slack.
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Meh. I got all 6. Brought it to my 18 y/o son (today is his birthday!) who is interning in the mechanical engineering office across the hall and he too got all 6.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
I got all 6. Brought it to my 18 y/o son (today is his birthday!) who is interning in the mechanical engineering office across the hall and he too got all 6.
We need more people like you raising kids. Luckily, you seem to be replicating yourself.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Yeah, I did know that. In fact, I've read that a major reason for the successful settlement of the USA, is the number of Indians who had died due to disease brought about by folks who arrived before the Jamestown/Plymouth Rock settlers.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
Christian Graus wrote:
a major reason for the successful settlement of the USA, is the number of Indians who had died due to disease brought about by folks who arrived before the Jamestown/Plymouth Rock settlers.
and people think the bio-warfare is some new form of warfare brought about by technology and evil scientists. personally, i am holding out for the zombie invasion
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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Are you suprised that many parents now depend entirely on the school system to educate their children? Weekends are all about "quality time" not sitting down to study a book together. Surely a childs education is the parents responsibility. If the school system is lacking then its their job to find a better school or pick up the slack.
I agree - I had a parent try to get me in on a campaign to attack a teacher who I thought was really good, and she said 'we've had to do maths with her at home'. I looked at her like she was insane. We've always done math and spelling in the car, read with the kids, and generally expected to take part in their education.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
I got all 6. Brought it to my 18 y/o son (today is his birthday!) who is interning in the mechanical engineering office across the hall and he too got all 6.
We need more people like you raising kids. Luckily, you seem to be replicating yourself.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Luckily, you seem to be replicating yourself.
Most people essentially do. The sad thing is how rarely that's a good thing.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Christian Graus wrote:
a major reason for the successful settlement of the USA, is the number of Indians who had died due to disease brought about by folks who arrived before the Jamestown/Plymouth Rock settlers.
and people think the bio-warfare is some new form of warfare brought about by technology and evil scientists. personally, i am holding out for the zombie invasion
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
Well, to be fair, the Europeans thought it was proof of Gods deliverance and the Indians were despondent b/c their religion could not explain it. Neither side planned it or expected it.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Christian Graus wrote:
a major reason for the successful settlement of the USA, is the number of Indians who had died due to disease brought about by folks who arrived before the Jamestown/Plymouth Rock settlers.
and people think the bio-warfare is some new form of warfare brought about by technology and evil scientists. personally, i am holding out for the zombie invasion
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
jgasm wrote:
personally, i am holding out for the zombie invasion
Still looking for love, eh? ;)
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
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Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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I believe the meme you're wanting goes by "No Child Left Behind" .edit. 5/6, i thought the walt whitman one was misleading due to capitalization of 'i' :doh:
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Christian Graus wrote:
a major reason for the successful settlement of the USA, is the number of Indians who had died due to disease brought about by folks who arrived before the Jamestown/Plymouth Rock settlers.
and people think the bio-warfare is some new form of warfare brought about by technology and evil scientists. personally, i am holding out for the zombie invasion
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
jgasm wrote:
and people think the bio-warfare is some new form of warfare brought about by technology and evil scientists.
Genghis Khan used to catapult the bodies of his warriors who died from disease over the walls of the towns and cities he was attacking. . . I guess that was as close to a zombie invasion as you are going to get. . .
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Are you suprised that many parents now depend entirely on the school system to educate their children? Weekends are all about "quality time" not sitting down to study a book together. Surely a childs education is the parents responsibility. If the school system is lacking then its their job to find a better school or pick up the slack.
No baby yet?
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!