MS Interview
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Naww, we'd miss ya. Well, miss the sig at any rate. :-\
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
I second that. His sig always makes me laugh :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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OK, so I managed to score an interview in Redmond. Anyone have advise (relevant, advise) on the process, what to expect, what to look out for, what would it be like if I got an offer?
only two letters away from being an asset
Mark Nischalke wrote:
I managed to score an interview in Redmond
Wow! Good luck to you, Mark.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Be prepared for the stupid questions masquerading as "we want to know how you think." And whatever you do, if asked what the best feature would be for Word, don't answer "a button to turn off all the automatic shit." (A friend did that on purpose.) As for an offer, be prepared to be low balled on salary (my brother.) Odds are they won't pay your move (if required.) [EDIT: Apparently, Microsoft has greatly improved the relocation package in the past few years.] I almost got an interview there--I fit the [obscure] job description exactly--but was given the brush off. I highly suspect it was an obligatory H1B job posting, which nobody but one person was supposed to actually match. I didn't really want to move to Seattle so it didn't bother me.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
modified on Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:33 PM
Joe Woodbury wrote:
asked what the best feature would be for Word, don't answer "a button to turn off all the automatic sh*t." (A friend did that on purpose.)
I'll have to remember that one :laugh:
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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OK, so I managed to score an interview in Redmond. Anyone have advise (relevant, advise) on the process, what to expect, what to look out for, what would it be like if I got an offer?
only two letters away from being an asset
Congrats...hope it works out! Mike
Semper Fi http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] My Site
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You know, if an interviewer played those kinds of stupid mind-games with me, I'd tell them to take their position, fold it until it's all sharp corners, and shove it up their a...
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
fold it until it's all sharp corners, and shove it up their a...
Exactly. This procedure seems to be for it own sake. What happened to asking straight forward and very pointed questions?
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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OK, so I managed to score an interview in Redmond. Anyone have advise (relevant, advise) on the process, what to expect, what to look out for, what would it be like if I got an offer?
only two letters away from being an asset
Hi, sometime ago i found this video http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/WM_IN/Zoe-Goldring-and-Gretchen-Ledgard-What-is-it-like-to-interview-at-Microsoft/[^] It's gets you an inside look into the recruiting process at microsoft. And I heart about a book "How Would You Move Mount Fuji?". it's all about interviewing questions. Good luck. :-D
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OK, so I managed to score an interview in Redmond. Anyone have advise (relevant, advise) on the process, what to expect, what to look out for, what would it be like if I got an offer?
only two letters away from being an asset
Hey Mark, Well, I've been working for M$ for about 8 years now, and have been on the "other side" of the interview process. What I can say is answer honestly and talk through your thought process. Most of the "obscure" questions we ask is to understand how you think, how you break down problems, basically how you deal with ambiguity. I would say the most important trait in a successful M$ employee is dealing with ambiguity. I don't know what type of position you are interviewing for, but if it is coding related, again, just be honest. If you don't know it offhand, but know where you can get the info in a hurry, say that. We aren't looking for someone who knows every single syntax for every command ever written. We're looking for good solid people that have a personality, are willing to admit they are human. Then we hire them and force them to do super-human feats! Anyways, overall it's a great place to work. Feel free to send me a direct email if you have other questions. Good Luck, Randy
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Wow, congratulations! Did you have a phone screen prior? :cool:
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Anyone have advise (relevant, advise) on the process
From what I have read - You will have 5 interviews if you get through the whole process - 2 before lunch, one during lunch (be careful, it masquerades as just "having lunch" but it's another interview and if you blow it, you'll be escorted back to the HR bus), and 2 after lunch. If at any time before the 5th interview you get told your interviews are done, you blew it somewhere and will not be offered a position. If you get through all 5, apparently it's very likely you'll be offered a position (because each one gives a HIRE or NO HIRE assessment immediately, and the first NO HIRE will get you escorted to the door. So if you get to 5, you have only one more group to impress and the odds of doing that are better). Don't look for any rhyme or reason in why they may decide to escort you to the door. The process seems like they're looking for specific things, but really they're just doing what every other hiring manager does - hire the person who seems most like themselves the instant they walk in the door. Ok, ok, before I get the business from everyone here who does any hiring, studies have shown that something like 85% of hiring decisions are made in the first 2 seconds when you meet someone. Yes, 2 seconds. Read "Moving Mount Fuji" for more - it's pretty interesting, and its main thesis is built around the sort of puzzle-based, grueling interview process given by Microsoft and companies like it. The people giving those interviews are just as subjective and prone to whim as everyone else is. We go through the farce of actually giving a complete interview pretty much to reinforce the notion we conceive the instant the person walks through the door. Far less frequently does an interview result in you changing someone's mind about their first impression. It's not impossible, but unlikely. So what I'm getting at is, take it in stride, do the best you can, and don't feel badly if you don't get offered a position. Unless you screw up royally in a way you know you could have done better, there probably would have been nothing you could have done differently. More specific advice that I've seen offered by other applicants (yeah, I've been reading up pretty heavily on this lately): 1. Bring snack bars with you and put them in your pocket. Eat them between interviews. You need to keep
Hi, First, best of luck with the interviews. I've gone through the whole process twice and got selected in the second try (obviously, failed in the first :P). Anyways, the process is quite simple. Expect small yet hard to crack riddles/programming questions. Remember, if a question is taking too long to make sense or if your writing too much code to solve something your probably off the track. THINK ALOUD AND ASK FOR CLARIFICATIONS, this probably is the best advice i can give you. They are never looking for the solution just your thinking pattern. By the way, everyone will give you an introduction before starting the interview. Listen to it carefully, this will help you in writing code. How? For example, If the interviewer is a manager for a test group, make sure you place checks in your code, WHEREEVER POSSIBLE :). The vice versa works for manager from the development teams, they value efficiency more (well to support the argument, its quite simple to get the BSOD in windows :P). This doesn't mean you don't need to check your input. Its always a good idea to ask the interviewer explicitly about the checks. Lastly, 5 interviews are not a must. I got selected after 4.5 :) (two guys in the fourth interview, i agree theoretically its 5) but if your really good they might select you in 3 interviews. Moreover, some people posted earlier about the relocation. Frankly, i think they have the best relocation benefits you can find. I hope this helps. If you have any further queries drop me an email and I'll try to help you as much as possible. Chao!
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Hey Mark, Well, I've been working for M$ for about 8 years now, and have been on the "other side" of the interview process. What I can say is answer honestly and talk through your thought process. Most of the "obscure" questions we ask is to understand how you think, how you break down problems, basically how you deal with ambiguity. I would say the most important trait in a successful M$ employee is dealing with ambiguity. I don't know what type of position you are interviewing for, but if it is coding related, again, just be honest. If you don't know it offhand, but know where you can get the info in a hurry, say that. We aren't looking for someone who knows every single syntax for every command ever written. We're looking for good solid people that have a personality, are willing to admit they are human. Then we hire them and force them to do super-human feats! Anyways, overall it's a great place to work. Feel free to send me a direct email if you have other questions. Good Luck, Randy
ogryzek wrote:
If you don't know it offhand, but know where you can get the info in a hurry, say that
Like... Google?
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Hi, First, best of luck with the interviews. I've gone through the whole process twice and got selected in the second try (obviously, failed in the first :P). Anyways, the process is quite simple. Expect small yet hard to crack riddles/programming questions. Remember, if a question is taking too long to make sense or if your writing too much code to solve something your probably off the track. THINK ALOUD AND ASK FOR CLARIFICATIONS, this probably is the best advice i can give you. They are never looking for the solution just your thinking pattern. By the way, everyone will give you an introduction before starting the interview. Listen to it carefully, this will help you in writing code. How? For example, If the interviewer is a manager for a test group, make sure you place checks in your code, WHEREEVER POSSIBLE :). The vice versa works for manager from the development teams, they value efficiency more (well to support the argument, its quite simple to get the BSOD in windows :P). This doesn't mean you don't need to check your input. Its always a good idea to ask the interviewer explicitly about the checks. Lastly, 5 interviews are not a must. I got selected after 4.5 :) (two guys in the fourth interview, i agree theoretically its 5) but if your really good they might select you in 3 interviews. Moreover, some people posted earlier about the relocation. Frankly, i think they have the best relocation benefits you can find. I hope this helps. If you have any further queries drop me an email and I'll try to help you as much as possible. Chao!
Awesome, thank you for the advice!!
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
if an interviewer played those kinds of stupid mind-games with me
Seems like more and more of them are going this direction these days. Driven by the need to compete, companies increasingly believe these sorts of interview tactics have anything to do with the quality of employee you end up hiring. Personally I think company culture has alot more to do with how employees end up performing.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Works excellent in a buyers market where there are way more applicants than jobs: You end up with those that are willing to deal with all kinds of silly sh*t.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
Awesome, thank you for the advice!!
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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You know, if an interviewer played those kinds of stupid mind-games with me, I'd tell them to take their position, fold it until it's all sharp corners, and shove it up their a...
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]It sucks. I interned with MS and then later worked with them. Even then, someone you'd expect them to know more or less pretty well after interning for about 9 months they still go through the motions of the interview and the really stupid mind games. Back then I used to think they were cool and showed off creativity and smarts. By the time I applied to the last company, the Manager I was talking to thought he could play mind games and read into my words; after 10 minutes I told him to take things at face value because I'm waaaaaaaaaay past the whole psychobabble and mind games stage.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "You're an idiot." John Simmons, THE Outlaw programmer "I realised that all of my best anecdotes started with "So there we were, pissed". Pete O'Hanlon Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation
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ogryzek wrote:
If you don't know it offhand, but know where you can get the info in a hurry, say that
Like... Google?
..by posting a programming question in the lounge !
;-]
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OK, so I managed to score an interview in Redmond. Anyone have advise (relevant, advise) on the process, what to expect, what to look out for, what would it be like if I got an offer?
only two letters away from being an asset
Mark Nischalke wrote:
what to expect
Expect a long day, and be yourself.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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OK, so I managed to score an interview in Redmond. Anyone have advise (relevant, advise) on the process, what to expect, what to look out for, what would it be like if I got an offer?
only two letters away from being an asset
I took an interview with Microsoft a number of years ago and was very surprised by the childishness of it. At the time it was obvious that Microsoft had implemented a prepackaged method of interviewing candidates no matter what the position was. In my case it was for an application engineer. One of the first questions I was asked was, "Where do you hope to see yourself in 5 years?"... Wanting to end this nonsense quickly, I told the interviewer that I simply hoped to be still alive...
Steve Naidamast Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@ix.netcom.com
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
what to expect
Expect a long day, and be yourself.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
be yourself
Damn there goes that plan, was about to submit the travel request as Bill G :-D
only two letters away from being an asset
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You know, if an interviewer played those kinds of stupid mind-games with me, I'd tell them to take their position, fold it until it's all sharp corners, and shove it up their a...
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]Generally I ask one of those stupid questions in an interview. That would be my last question after going through the normal dialog. The reason I do it is I am not interested in the right/wrong answer. All I am interested is the candidates approach to the problem at hand. In fact if I get correct answer in the first trial I would ask follow up questions to probe the candidates mind. This question plays only a single role in whole process and by the time I get to this question I have pretty much made my mind about the candidate. The biggest lesson I learn from each candidate from this questions is that how well the candidate fits into the culture. It shows about the candidates ego, personality, imagination and thinking process.
Yusuf
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Wow, congratulations! Did you have a phone screen prior? :cool:
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Anyone have advise (relevant, advise) on the process
From what I have read - You will have 5 interviews if you get through the whole process - 2 before lunch, one during lunch (be careful, it masquerades as just "having lunch" but it's another interview and if you blow it, you'll be escorted back to the HR bus), and 2 after lunch. If at any time before the 5th interview you get told your interviews are done, you blew it somewhere and will not be offered a position. If you get through all 5, apparently it's very likely you'll be offered a position (because each one gives a HIRE or NO HIRE assessment immediately, and the first NO HIRE will get you escorted to the door. So if you get to 5, you have only one more group to impress and the odds of doing that are better). Don't look for any rhyme or reason in why they may decide to escort you to the door. The process seems like they're looking for specific things, but really they're just doing what every other hiring manager does - hire the person who seems most like themselves the instant they walk in the door. Ok, ok, before I get the business from everyone here who does any hiring, studies have shown that something like 85% of hiring decisions are made in the first 2 seconds when you meet someone. Yes, 2 seconds. Read "Moving Mount Fuji" for more - it's pretty interesting, and its main thesis is built around the sort of puzzle-based, grueling interview process given by Microsoft and companies like it. The people giving those interviews are just as subjective and prone to whim as everyone else is. We go through the farce of actually giving a complete interview pretty much to reinforce the notion we conceive the instant the person walks through the door. Far less frequently does an interview result in you changing someone's mind about their first impression. It's not impossible, but unlikely. So what I'm getting at is, take it in stride, do the best you can, and don't feel badly if you don't get offered a position. Unless you screw up royally in a way you know you could have done better, there probably would have been nothing you could have done differently. More specific advice that I've seen offered by other applicants (yeah, I've been reading up pretty heavily on this lately): 1. Bring snack bars with you and put them in your pocket. Eat them between interviews. You need to keep
Interview process is well organized in the MS. There are some standard procedures, guidelines for interviewers and mandatory training before you allowed to be an interviewer. Loop takes one day. Starts and ends with recruiter. At morning recruiter instructs you about process. 5 interviews one hour each. One of them is a lunch interview. Interviewers exchange information about you in between and fill up report form available for limited amount of people. First question of the form: Hire/No Hire. Several paragraph of explanation your decision after it. If candidate get first tree "No Hire" he gos home after the lunch. After first 5 interviews there is one more -- bonus play. Usually a manager of two-tree levels up. Answer you get from recruiter. Typically in a week. Content of interview depends on the position and on the team. Stupid questions like "Why road hatches are round?" are discouraged now. Hiring of right people is the most vital task for any high tech company. The goal of interview is anything else but demonstrating how smart and funny the interviewer is. Expectation is that you would grow couple "levels" in the next 5 years so questions where you want to be your career are impotent. If you don't have potential to grow you don't fit for the position. There is no magic answer here. Its ok to not have a plan especially if you are a collage hire. You can instead ask an interviewer about career opportunities in the MS. Asking right questions about a group, company, development/shipping process is as impotent as answering questions. Show an interest in getting position and respect to yourself and to the company. In some way you are "selling" yourself. Be prepared to discuss your previous work experience; what you consider was success and challenge and how you deal with this challenge. Usually on each interview you have one problem. The good problem is not well defined. You need to work with the interviewer on "formalizing" the task. It would be a mistake to make an assumption and jump to white board for codding it without postulating your assumptions at least. In most tasks you need to find and code some algorithm. Usually it is easy to find n*n algorithm or one that requires additional memory (or stack) allocation. If this is the case it may be helpful to show your knowledge. If you stick you would be offered a hint. Hint is usually not a full answer so keep working. In codding you don't need to write a "production" code but need to take in account all conner cases and possibly inva
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Hey Mark, Well, I've been working for M$ for about 8 years now, and have been on the "other side" of the interview process. What I can say is answer honestly and talk through your thought process. Most of the "obscure" questions we ask is to understand how you think, how you break down problems, basically how you deal with ambiguity. I would say the most important trait in a successful M$ employee is dealing with ambiguity. I don't know what type of position you are interviewing for, but if it is coding related, again, just be honest. If you don't know it offhand, but know where you can get the info in a hurry, say that. We aren't looking for someone who knows every single syntax for every command ever written. We're looking for good solid people that have a personality, are willing to admit they are human. Then we hire them and force them to do super-human feats! Anyways, overall it's a great place to work. Feel free to send me a direct email if you have other questions. Good Luck, Randy
Wait, you work for Microsoft and use the tired "M$" slang. :confused: :doh:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Upon this disciple I'll build my new religion? The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
