Mathematically-troubled Computer Scientist?
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Sadly, I am one of those mathematically-troubled student whose taking-up Computer Science. I've barely passed all my math subjects (never failed one though) and I had a hard time in my Automata and Algorithms Complexity (Big o stuff) subjects. However, I aced all my programming subjects including Data Structures and Artificial Intelligence. I also aced all software development subjects. How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life? Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math? :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Ian Uy wrote:
How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life?
It's, uh, important. To re-use a worn-out cooking analogy, learning to program is like learning to read and write recipe cards... but that doesn't mean you'll ever be able to produce a good product, it just means you can specify and follow instructions. The other stuff - maths, HCI, design - that's learning how to choose good ingredients, identify flavors that work together, avoid just adding butter and salt to everything until it tastes ok, and lay out the finished product in a way that is attractive to your guests users. You can get by without it. But "getting by" probably shouldn't be your ultimate goal in school. I say don't worry about your grades (well, you need to pass, so worry that much, but don't feel bad if that's all you do). But work on really understanding the concepts they're trying (perhaps not very well) to teach you. Find external resources: plenty of good books on this stuff that they'll never give you. Read the articles here. Fall asleep watching UWTV if that helps. When you get a feel for how it's important, you'll know you're on the right track.
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
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Ian Uy wrote:
How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life?
It's, uh, important. To re-use a worn-out cooking analogy, learning to program is like learning to read and write recipe cards... but that doesn't mean you'll ever be able to produce a good product, it just means you can specify and follow instructions. The other stuff - maths, HCI, design - that's learning how to choose good ingredients, identify flavors that work together, avoid just adding butter and salt to everything until it tastes ok, and lay out the finished product in a way that is attractive to your guests users. You can get by without it. But "getting by" probably shouldn't be your ultimate goal in school. I say don't worry about your grades (well, you need to pass, so worry that much, but don't feel bad if that's all you do). But work on really understanding the concepts they're trying (perhaps not very well) to teach you. Find external resources: plenty of good books on this stuff that they'll never give you. Read the articles here. Fall asleep watching UWTV if that helps. When you get a feel for how it's important, you'll know you're on the right track.
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
cooking analogy... marinated briskets... next time i turn on the tv "cooking for geeks! hosted by Shog"
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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Sadly, I am one of those mathematically-troubled student whose taking-up Computer Science. I've barely passed all my math subjects (never failed one though) and I had a hard time in my Automata and Algorithms Complexity (Big o stuff) subjects. However, I aced all my programming subjects including Data Structures and Artificial Intelligence. I also aced all software development subjects. How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life? Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math? :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Maths skill is irrelevant. If you enjoy programming, then do it. I've been a software developer for 3 years and I never use any of the maths I was taught at highschool/uni. Some areas of maths are helpful for different things. (Like don't go expecting to be a 3d graphics programming without a good grasp of geometry & matrix maths). But if you can write good programs, and have a good talent for design, lack of maths isn't important.
Simon
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Ian Uy wrote:
Am I doomed?
Certainly not by not being ace at maths. I got an N at A Level, hate calculus with a passion, fundamentally disagree with Cantor about the nature of infinity, don't think statistics is even worth studying and it's never once even slowed me down in my software development and had no discernable effect on my career whatsoever. Creating real software is much more of an art than a science anyway and unless you're reimplementing mathCad the chances are you'll never need any advanced math.
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
don't think statistics is even worth studying
You are right! (47% of the Time)
------------------------------------ "Password Protected? You're dealing with Geeks, just turn it on, type Gandalf and you're in!" - Frankie Boyle
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cooking analogy... marinated briskets... next time i turn on the tv "cooking for geeks! hosted by Shog"
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
jgasm wrote:
marinated briskets...
Rubbed, damnit - rubbed! I spent a good chunk of Wednesday evening rubbing my huge piece of meat, and... uh... yeah, let's go with marinated. :-\
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
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Maths skill is irrelevant. If you enjoy programming, then do it. I've been a software developer for 3 years and I never use any of the maths I was taught at highschool/uni. Some areas of maths are helpful for different things. (Like don't go expecting to be a 3d graphics programming without a good grasp of geometry & matrix maths). But if you can write good programs, and have a good talent for design, lack of maths isn't important.
Simon
Simon Stevens wrote:
Maths skill is irrelevant.
so are english skills apparently.
Simon Stevens wrote:
Maths skill is irrelevant.
not really. if you do any kind of business programming you at least have to know the order of operations in and out. at the bare bones minimum. and probably understanding percentage will be very helpful. ;P
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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Ian Uy wrote:
Am I doomed?
Certainly not by not being ace at maths. I got an N at A Level, hate calculus with a passion, fundamentally disagree with Cantor about the nature of infinity, don't think statistics is even worth studying and it's never once even slowed me down in my software development and had no discernable effect on my career whatsoever. Creating real software is much more of an art than a science anyway and unless you're reimplementing mathCad the chances are you'll never need any advanced math.
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
Thank you for that reassurance! You have certainly regained my faith. :)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
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jgasm wrote:
marinated briskets...
Rubbed, damnit - rubbed! I spent a good chunk of Wednesday evening rubbing my huge piece of meat, and... uh... yeah, let's go with marinated. :-\
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
how am i supposed to focus on my work with i am thinking about marinated meat. because of my obsession with food...someone's mind is in the gutter.
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
-
Maths skill is irrelevant. If you enjoy programming, then do it. I've been a software developer for 3 years and I never use any of the maths I was taught at highschool/uni. Some areas of maths are helpful for different things. (Like don't go expecting to be a 3d graphics programming without a good grasp of geometry & matrix maths). But if you can write good programs, and have a good talent for design, lack of maths isn't important.
Simon
Simon Stevens wrote:
Maths skill is irrelevant
Yeah, come and work for me, I will pay you £1000 per week, thats nearly £5000 a year! You only have to work 26 hours a day, and a -25% pay rise each year will see you through your 40 e/ Pi^2 holidays
------------------------------------ "Password Protected? You're dealing with Geeks, just turn it on, type Gandalf and you're in!" - Frankie Boyle
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Maths skill is irrelevant. If you enjoy programming, then do it. I've been a software developer for 3 years and I never use any of the maths I was taught at highschool/uni. Some areas of maths are helpful for different things. (Like don't go expecting to be a 3d graphics programming without a good grasp of geometry & matrix maths). But if you can write good programs, and have a good talent for design, lack of maths isn't important.
Simon
I believe that math skills are still relevant in some way. I was tasked to represent my university in the ACM-ICPC Asia regional and after flipping thru the problem sets, I realized the real meaning of "computer science".
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
-
Sadly, I am one of those mathematically-troubled student whose taking-up Computer Science. I've barely passed all my math subjects (never failed one though) and I had a hard time in my Automata and Algorithms Complexity (Big o stuff) subjects. However, I aced all my programming subjects including Data Structures and Artificial Intelligence. I also aced all software development subjects. How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life? Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math? :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Noone is "stupid at math" unless you are stupid at everything. Math is just like any other subject (including a programming language). You just have to learn to think about the subject correctly. Once you have the basics down, it is easy. Unfortunately, not enough teachers in the world understand that in order to teach successfully, you have to be able to get your students to actually understand the subject rather than memorize answers. As for how much math relates to programming. there are two MAJOR programming genre's: Math and Business. Just stick to programming business logic and you will be fine but don't expect to ever be able to create something like an encryption algorythm that is the new RSA standard or something in that league. If this is the type of stuff you want to do (rather than just programming windows forms all day long), you will need to sit yerself down and learn to understand the basics of math.
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how am i supposed to focus on my work with i am thinking about marinated meat. because of my obsession with food...someone's mind is in the gutter.
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
You think you've got it bad - my whole kitchen still smells like it. Seriously tempted to try a BBQ breakfast... :~
jgasm wrote:
because of my obsession with food...someone's mind is in the gutter.
Hey, i assure you, my mind is on high and noble matters. My rich and tangy sauce, for instance.
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
-
Ian Uy wrote:
How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life?
It's, uh, important. To re-use a worn-out cooking analogy, learning to program is like learning to read and write recipe cards... but that doesn't mean you'll ever be able to produce a good product, it just means you can specify and follow instructions. The other stuff - maths, HCI, design - that's learning how to choose good ingredients, identify flavors that work together, avoid just adding butter and salt to everything until it tastes ok, and lay out the finished product in a way that is attractive to your guests users. You can get by without it. But "getting by" probably shouldn't be your ultimate goal in school. I say don't worry about your grades (well, you need to pass, so worry that much, but don't feel bad if that's all you do). But work on really understanding the concepts they're trying (perhaps not very well) to teach you. Find external resources: plenty of good books on this stuff that they'll never give you. Read the articles here. Fall asleep watching UWTV if that helps. When you get a feel for how it's important, you'll know you're on the right track.
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
How can I relate Integral Calculus to programming? If I can relate a math topic (Say discrete mathematics) to programming, I find it easier and more enjoyable to learn. :laugh:
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
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Thank you for that reassurance! You have certainly regained my faith. :)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
In the past year all that comes to mind that I've used is trig, Euclidean distance, integrals and some geometric translations. Thats it. Seldom do I have to move beyond that which is rather good, because I forgotten most of it :)
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
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Noone is "stupid at math" unless you are stupid at everything. Math is just like any other subject (including a programming language). You just have to learn to think about the subject correctly. Once you have the basics down, it is easy. Unfortunately, not enough teachers in the world understand that in order to teach successfully, you have to be able to get your students to actually understand the subject rather than memorize answers. As for how much math relates to programming. there are two MAJOR programming genre's: Math and Business. Just stick to programming business logic and you will be fine but don't expect to ever be able to create something like an encryption algorythm that is the new RSA standard or something in that league. If this is the type of stuff you want to do (rather than just programming windows forms all day long), you will need to sit yerself down and learn to understand the basics of math.
Oooh yeah, my current project is cryptography. However, by reading Schenier's "Applied Cryptography" I was able to understand the underlying math (Finite Fields and stuff) and cryptographic primitives. My problem is I can't relate other math subjects like Integral Calculus to programming. :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
-
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
don't think statistics is even worth studying
You are right! (47% of the Time)
------------------------------------ "Password Protected? You're dealing with Geeks, just turn it on, type Gandalf and you're in!" - Frankie Boyle
Dalek Dave wrote:
Matthew Faithfull wrote: don't think statistics is even worth studying You are right! (47% of the Time)
I'm 87.8470% sure you're implying a degree of precision not supported by the data. Edit: meanwhile I provided exactly the amount of precision needed for my message. PS we need a smirk smiley.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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it is mine as well. perhaps we can start a code project math forum ;P
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
There's already one. I asked a stupid elementary math question there and got flamed for it. Click -> http://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/View.aspx?fid=326859&select=2612810&fr=134#xx2612810xx[^]
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
-
Sadly, I am one of those mathematically-troubled student whose taking-up Computer Science. I've barely passed all my math subjects (never failed one though) and I had a hard time in my Automata and Algorithms Complexity (Big o stuff) subjects. However, I aced all my programming subjects including Data Structures and Artificial Intelligence. I also aced all software development subjects. How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life? Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math? :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Define mathematically challenged? If you can get through basic calculus, and understand how it works, I'd say you'll be fine, as most of the time programming doesn't require that level of math. If you had a hard time with Automata and Algorithms Complexity, then just keep studying it. Keep working at it and you'll be fine.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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How can I relate Integral Calculus to programming? If I can relate a math topic (Say discrete mathematics) to programming, I find it easier and more enjoyable to learn. :laugh:
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Ian Uy wrote:
Say discrete mathematics
I prefer Discreet Mathematics, doing it so nobody finds out! :)
------------------------------------ "Password Protected? You're dealing with Geeks, just turn it on, type Gandalf and you're in!" - Frankie Boyle
-
Sadly, I am one of those mathematically-troubled student whose taking-up Computer Science. I've barely passed all my math subjects (never failed one though) and I had a hard time in my Automata and Algorithms Complexity (Big o stuff) subjects. However, I aced all my programming subjects including Data Structures and Artificial Intelligence. I also aced all software development subjects. How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life? Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math? :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Persevere. Mathematics is often percieved as difficult (particularly advanced calculus). In my experience the best approach is to find a real-world application of the techniques you are trying to learn / understand. Very often this will give you an insight into the purpose of what you are learning that you can not achieve in a lecture theatre or read in (most) text books. The most valuable thing I took away from my maths was not any technique or method but a general approach to analytical thought - which remains with me to this day and (I hope) makes me a better developer.
"I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant."