Mathematically-troubled Computer Scientist?
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Noone is "stupid at math" unless you are stupid at everything. Math is just like any other subject (including a programming language). You just have to learn to think about the subject correctly. Once you have the basics down, it is easy. Unfortunately, not enough teachers in the world understand that in order to teach successfully, you have to be able to get your students to actually understand the subject rather than memorize answers. As for how much math relates to programming. there are two MAJOR programming genre's: Math and Business. Just stick to programming business logic and you will be fine but don't expect to ever be able to create something like an encryption algorythm that is the new RSA standard or something in that league. If this is the type of stuff you want to do (rather than just programming windows forms all day long), you will need to sit yerself down and learn to understand the basics of math.
Oooh yeah, my current project is cryptography. However, by reading Schenier's "Applied Cryptography" I was able to understand the underlying math (Finite Fields and stuff) and cryptographic primitives. My problem is I can't relate other math subjects like Integral Calculus to programming. :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
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Matthew Faithfull wrote:
don't think statistics is even worth studying
You are right! (47% of the Time)
------------------------------------ "Password Protected? You're dealing with Geeks, just turn it on, type Gandalf and you're in!" - Frankie Boyle
Dalek Dave wrote:
Matthew Faithfull wrote: don't think statistics is even worth studying You are right! (47% of the Time)
I'm 87.8470% sure you're implying a degree of precision not supported by the data. Edit: meanwhile I provided exactly the amount of precision needed for my message. PS we need a smirk smiley.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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it is mine as well. perhaps we can start a code project math forum ;P
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
There's already one. I asked a stupid elementary math question there and got flamed for it. Click -> http://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/View.aspx?fid=326859&select=2612810&fr=134#xx2612810xx[^]
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
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Sadly, I am one of those mathematically-troubled student whose taking-up Computer Science. I've barely passed all my math subjects (never failed one though) and I had a hard time in my Automata and Algorithms Complexity (Big o stuff) subjects. However, I aced all my programming subjects including Data Structures and Artificial Intelligence. I also aced all software development subjects. How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life? Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math? :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Define mathematically challenged? If you can get through basic calculus, and understand how it works, I'd say you'll be fine, as most of the time programming doesn't require that level of math. If you had a hard time with Automata and Algorithms Complexity, then just keep studying it. Keep working at it and you'll be fine.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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How can I relate Integral Calculus to programming? If I can relate a math topic (Say discrete mathematics) to programming, I find it easier and more enjoyable to learn. :laugh:
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Ian Uy wrote:
Say discrete mathematics
I prefer Discreet Mathematics, doing it so nobody finds out! :)
------------------------------------ "Password Protected? You're dealing with Geeks, just turn it on, type Gandalf and you're in!" - Frankie Boyle
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Sadly, I am one of those mathematically-troubled student whose taking-up Computer Science. I've barely passed all my math subjects (never failed one though) and I had a hard time in my Automata and Algorithms Complexity (Big o stuff) subjects. However, I aced all my programming subjects including Data Structures and Artificial Intelligence. I also aced all software development subjects. How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life? Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math? :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Persevere. Mathematics is often percieved as difficult (particularly advanced calculus). In my experience the best approach is to find a real-world application of the techniques you are trying to learn / understand. Very often this will give you an insight into the purpose of what you are learning that you can not achieve in a lecture theatre or read in (most) text books. The most valuable thing I took away from my maths was not any technique or method but a general approach to analytical thought - which remains with me to this day and (I hope) makes me a better developer.
"I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant."
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Define mathematically challenged? If you can get through basic calculus, and understand how it works, I'd say you'll be fine, as most of the time programming doesn't require that level of math. If you had a hard time with Automata and Algorithms Complexity, then just keep studying it. Keep working at it and you'll be fine.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
I passed calculus by memorizing the "formulas" and the "patterns" on my professors lectures to answer the quizzes. I never UNDERSTAND why they do "this" and "that" to get "those". I don't even know what Calculus is for. That may explain why I never liked Math in the first place. :(
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
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There's already one. I asked a stupid elementary math question there and got flamed for it. Click -> http://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/View.aspx?fid=326859&select=2612810&fr=134#xx2612810xx[^]
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Try doing it for Happy Numbers and Happy Primes!
------------------------------------ "Password Protected? You're dealing with Geeks, just turn it on, type Gandalf and you're in!" - Frankie Boyle
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Sadly, I am one of those mathematically-troubled student whose taking-up Computer Science. I've barely passed all my math subjects (never failed one though) and I had a hard time in my Automata and Algorithms Complexity (Big o stuff) subjects. However, I aced all my programming subjects including Data Structures and Artificial Intelligence. I also aced all software development subjects. How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life? Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math? :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
I find it difficult to believe that you had a hard time with Algorithms, Complexity, Discrete Math, Calculus and Theory of Computation but then did well in Data Structures and AI. You must not be taking the same AI course I took. Any logical thinker can easily excel in the field of business software, however, a thorough understanding and foundation in Mathematics is essential in some aspects of the field. Unfortunately, a lot of my time is spent trying to convince programmers that are bad at math why algorithms that perform with exponential complexity are a bad idea because their philosophy is: it works good in Dev. Just don't be that guy.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway -
Define mathematically challenged? If you can get through basic calculus, and understand how it works, I'd say you'll be fine, as most of the time programming doesn't require that level of math. If you had a hard time with Automata and Algorithms Complexity, then just keep studying it. Keep working at it and you'll be fine.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
I agree. I wish more schools had Georgia Tech's old policy on non-computer science courses for the CS Degree: "D is for Done".
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway -
Sadly, I am one of those mathematically-troubled student whose taking-up Computer Science. I've barely passed all my math subjects (never failed one though) and I had a hard time in my Automata and Algorithms Complexity (Big o stuff) subjects. However, I aced all my programming subjects including Data Structures and Artificial Intelligence. I also aced all software development subjects. How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life? Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math? :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Ian Uy wrote:
How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life?
In my job (machinery construction), there are significant parts that need maths to be solved, when you make inverse kinematics and when you have to calculate specific functions to predict a behaviour or to correct one in order to get the job done properly... There are jobs that need a lot of math out there (3D apps...) but there are others that do not need them (DB programming...).
Ian Uy wrote:
Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math?
I'm not very good at math, and I'm the one that manages the IT department in our company. I'd love to know more on this topic as sometimes I need an extra help that I know that would not be needed if I knew more on maths. But in the other hand I'm full of experience on my job after 10 years of working here and I can make very special things (even without maths). Hope this helps... PS: Anyway, if you are still into the studying part of your life I would try to make an effort, believe it or not, now you have plenty of time to make things like that, and depending on the job you want to do, you will need them and you'll be more prepared.
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it is mine as well. perhaps we can start a code project math forum ;P
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
jgasm wrote:
code project math forum
There's one that has been there for a while now.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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How can I relate Integral Calculus to programming? If I can relate a math topic (Say discrete mathematics) to programming, I find it easier and more enjoyable to learn. :laugh:
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Ian Uy wrote:
How can I relate Integral Calculus to programming?
I think you're looking at this the wrong way around. Calculus is used in many engineering tasks; software is needed to reduce errors and tedium inherent in such calculations; if you have a poor understanding of the math involved, you're gonna have a hard time implementing the algorithms. When i left school, i had pretty much the same attitude: "i'll never use this, so why remember it?" A few years later, i'm working with engineers on software to calculate acoustics and airflow through complex shapes... For the most part, i stick to the UIs, but more and more i find myself digging up web references and old textbooks to try to bring this stuff back. Where i paid attention, it comes easy and i get things done; where i just worked to get by, i struggle.
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
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I passed calculus by memorizing the "formulas" and the "patterns" on my professors lectures to answer the quizzes. I never UNDERSTAND why they do "this" and "that" to get "those". I don't even know what Calculus is for. That may explain why I never liked Math in the first place. :(
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Ian Uy wrote:
I passed calculus by memorizing the "formulas" and the "patterns" on my professors lectures to answer the quizzes.
Then I'd respectfully argue that you didn't really pass. Either your professor was not very good, or you didn't put the effort you needed to in it. Which is too bad because it's really kind of interesting. Draw a 2D blobby, irregular shape with curves. Now find the area. Can't? That what calculus is used for (or at least one example).
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
-
Sadly, I am one of those mathematically-troubled student whose taking-up Computer Science. I've barely passed all my math subjects (never failed one though) and I had a hard time in my Automata and Algorithms Complexity (Big o stuff) subjects. However, I aced all my programming subjects including Data Structures and Artificial Intelligence. I also aced all software development subjects. How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life? Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math? :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Ian Uy wrote:
How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life?
They are important. How can you know how to better design an algorithm if you don't understand how Big O Notation works? Or how can you show a boss that you have created an algorithm that is the most efficient for a particular problem at hand? You need the math background in order to do so.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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cooking analogy... marinated briskets... next time i turn on the tv "cooking for geeks! hosted by Shog"
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
jgasm wrote:
turn on the tv "cooking for geeks! hosted by Shog"
Now maybe if some Food Network guys could get him on the air :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Ian Uy wrote:
How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life?
In my job (machinery construction), there are significant parts that need maths to be solved, when you make inverse kinematics and when you have to calculate specific functions to predict a behaviour or to correct one in order to get the job done properly... There are jobs that need a lot of math out there (3D apps...) but there are others that do not need them (DB programming...).
Ian Uy wrote:
Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math?
I'm not very good at math, and I'm the one that manages the IT department in our company. I'd love to know more on this topic as sometimes I need an extra help that I know that would not be needed if I knew more on maths. But in the other hand I'm full of experience on my job after 10 years of working here and I can make very special things (even without maths). Hope this helps... PS: Anyway, if you are still into the studying part of your life I would try to make an effort, believe it or not, now you have plenty of time to make things like that, and depending on the job you want to do, you will need them and you'll be more prepared.
Last time I presented a report on "Random Numbers", using a Linear Congruential Generator (Lehmer Generator). I read a lot of materials and the underlying math about the simple equation. In the end, I was still unable to understand how modding an integer to a larger prime number gives "pseudo random" characteristics. While reading thru the mathematical proofs and theorems, I regretted not loving math in grade school.
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
-
Sadly, I am one of those mathematically-troubled student whose taking-up Computer Science. I've barely passed all my math subjects (never failed one though) and I had a hard time in my Automata and Algorithms Complexity (Big o stuff) subjects. However, I aced all my programming subjects including Data Structures and Artificial Intelligence. I also aced all software development subjects. How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life? Am I doomed? Am I the only one who is stupid enough to take Computer Science when I know for a fact that I'm stupid in Math? :^)
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
My personal opinion is that you do need to be competent in maths to be effective in any field of engineering or science. Initially I struggled with calculus but was told by my adviser to tough it out and if I threw myself into it that I would eventually "get it". He was right, in the end I finished with a minor in math and was a calculus teaching assistant for a short time. So, tough it out and apply yourself; take a few extra math courses if you need to.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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I passed calculus by memorizing the "formulas" and the "patterns" on my professors lectures to answer the quizzes. I never UNDERSTAND why they do "this" and "that" to get "those". I don't even know what Calculus is for. That may explain why I never liked Math in the first place. :(
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
Take some physics classes as well as some electrical engineering classes and you should see it all come together. That's how it worked for me. Physics really drove home calculus and taking 2nd year electrical engineering class while taking differential equations. It was really nice seeing learning in one class effected my knowledge in the other subject, but I was a math and comp eng. major and the math came easy. Did you have to do any word problems were you were supposed to apply the knowledge instead for show the derivative/integral of this equation? It might help you understand that a little better.
Mike Lasseter
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Ian Uy wrote:
How important are those (Automota, Algorithms...., Mathematics) subjects in a Software Developers life?
They are important. How can you know how to better design an algorithm if you don't understand how Big O Notation works? Or how can you show a boss that you have created an algorithm that is the most efficient for a particular problem at hand? You need the math background in order to do so.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
The logical thing that I would do is run both algorithms in the same machine and get the total running time then benchmark the two algorithms. I realize that this is not the "scientific" way of doing this. One should be able to say that "My algorithm is linear while the other guy is quadratic". :doh:
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.