Do you use dual Monitor for Coding
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This was discussed to *death* about 2 or 3 months ago when it was the survey question of the week, this is a summary of the other side of the argument you probably won't hear from anyone else because they are not being honest with themselves: I don't and I wouldn't allow any developer working for me to use more than one monitor without providing actual measured proof that they are more efficient because all evidence is to the contrary and the great majority of studies have shown that people are far less efficient when they have more to look at. Hell you don't need a study, everyone knows this intuitively and they are fooling themselves with a lot of talk about saving mouse clicks (too lazy to event alt-tab) meanwhile losing focus on a single task at a time which is, if not at the top, very near the top of the list of most important aspects of an efficient programming environment. In the end and after *much* discussion the first time around I think it just comes down to a coolness factor for people who will never admit it and will go to any lengths to justify and rationalize it but will never actually take the time to measure the efficiency of it for themselves. That being said about 1% or less of all developers actually need multiple monitors for real time debugging and about 10% of all developers *think* they need it for the same reason and don't but also won't admit it because it's just another justification to look and feel important / cool / like their in a sci fi movie etc etc etc.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
I'll wait for documented, varifiable, scientific proof it doesn't (which still won't matter as we meet/exceed all our goals and timelines at work, which is WHY we do what we do anyway ;) ;) ). In the mean time, I make all my developers use two, one for VS/code and the other to see what the testing/results are...as well as a second VS/Code/Project, searching Google, Email, run MS Server Management Studio, etc. My team is allowed Internet access, but the others aren't, they run 2 monitors, get thier jobs done just fine. Been using 2 for years and I find it very helpful, which I believe was the original question.
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Do you use dual monitor and how it is helping you?
Tapas Shome System Software Engineer Keen Computer Solutions 1408 Erin Street Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3E 2S8 http://www.keencomputer.com
At work, I have two monitors. They're great. I use Visual Studio more than anything else. I use my lovely 21" widescreen for code, and the small laptop screen for all the other windows - solution explorer, properties etc. Sometimes I wish I had a 3rd monitor - for testing, web browsing etc. Am I more productive? It certainly feels like it. But more importantly, I am happier. At home, I keep trying to drag things onto the 2nd monitor that I have not got!
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I used to have dual-monitors which I prefer. Just one for development at home.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
Absolutely...er, well sort of.... :-) I have two(2) 17-inch monitors. I ususally have all the Windows Gobbledy-Gook on one, and my Unix/C-Porgamming stuff on the other. When in "serious" devleopment mode, I do my Unit Testing on the one monitor and "tail -f logfile" the execution on the other. It does make life a little better. Even though the other monitor was the result of a "midnight-requisition"..... :-)
".... We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own . . . . Resistance is Futile . . . . You will be Assimilated . . . . . ."
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Many Graphics cards allow you to use a vga or dvi splitter and connect that to two different screens - Probably a bit cheaper than buying a second graphics card. Check that your graphics card allows for [edit] "SLI" "Dual View" [/edit] mode. I'm using a 256MB Radeon x600 Pro (plus a cable splitter) which is cheap as chips now.
**IA Computing Ltd - Neonlight
**modified on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:34
Splitter will just clone your picture to two monitors, why would you want that? SLI if you have nvidia gpu, which you dont... :) with ati it's called crossfire.
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Do you use dual monitor and how it is helping you?
Tapas Shome System Software Engineer Keen Computer Solutions 1408 Erin Street Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3E 2S8 http://www.keencomputer.com
No. I use 4... Both at home and at the office. All my monitors are 17" running 1280x1024. I've tried multiple configurations, including multiple wide screens. The 17's work best for me as I like to sit somewhat close to my desktop. I like the standard viewports instead of the wide screen because I can go full screen with a window without having a ton of wasted space. going from left to right, here is how my monitors are utilized: 1. SQL Server Manager, SQL Profiler, documentation views. This is the mode for development. When it debugging mode, this is where the running application lives. 2. Visual studio 2008 Code / Designer Window. Full screen. I don't use sliding tool bars/menus. One monitor is dedicated to pure code. 3. Visual Studio menus and tool bars. This is where solution explorer lives, properties, tool box, etc, etc, etc. All of the items that are necessary to Visual Studio, but clutter my view of code, get undocked and moved here. It is very nice to have solution explorer and properties view extend from the top of the monitor to the bottom, readily available. When in debug mode, this monitor fills with call stack, immediate window, output, watch window, etc, etc. So all of my debugging tools are right there at my finger tips. I can step through my code on monitor 2, watch how the application behaves on monitor 1, and view watches and call stack on monitor 3.. all without having to .. friggin alt-tab (shudder). This is also the monitor where VM's and Remote Desktops live. 4. This monitor is dedicated to outlook. It is also where the web browser lives, documentation, IM, etc, etc, etc. It's the scratch window that allows me to keep things somewhat important, but still in peripheral vision. Some Visuals: My Office Workstation: http://www.clanmonroe.com/blogimages/Office_Workstation.jpg[^] My Home Workstation: http://www.clanmonroe.com/blogimages/jdesk2.jpg[^]
--- Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted.
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Splitter will just clone your picture to two monitors, why would you want that? SLI if you have nvidia gpu, which you dont... :) with ati it's called crossfire.
Igor Jerosimic wrote:
Splitter will just clone your picture to two monitors, why would you want that?
A splitter can be used for dual screens with one as an extended desktop so long as your graphics card supports it (which most modern gfx cards do). I am typing this message on my second monitor connected to my machine using a splitter. A splitter could also be used for cloning the picture - the only use for that I have found is teaching or giving presentations.
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This was discussed to *death* about 2 or 3 months ago when it was the survey question of the week, this is a summary of the other side of the argument you probably won't hear from anyone else because they are not being honest with themselves: I don't and I wouldn't allow any developer working for me to use more than one monitor without providing actual measured proof that they are more efficient because all evidence is to the contrary and the great majority of studies have shown that people are far less efficient when they have more to look at. Hell you don't need a study, everyone knows this intuitively and they are fooling themselves with a lot of talk about saving mouse clicks (too lazy to event alt-tab) meanwhile losing focus on a single task at a time which is, if not at the top, very near the top of the list of most important aspects of an efficient programming environment. In the end and after *much* discussion the first time around I think it just comes down to a coolness factor for people who will never admit it and will go to any lengths to justify and rationalize it but will never actually take the time to measure the efficiency of it for themselves. That being said about 1% or less of all developers actually need multiple monitors for real time debugging and about 10% of all developers *think* they need it for the same reason and don't but also won't admit it because it's just another justification to look and feel important / cool / like their in a sci fi movie etc etc etc.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
"I don't and I wouldn't allow any developer working for me to use more than one monitor without providing actual measured proof that they are more efficient" I'm sure glad *I* don't work for a PHB like you. I have two high-res monitors sitting on my desk, and I'm about to get a third. I love it. I do high-performance graphics software for a living (and teach little kids how to play the violin on the side; if my management ever got to be an asshat like you, I'd be teaching violin full-time in about two weeks, and freelance programming on the side). One thing that managers tend to forget is that techies are largely motivated by getting to play with technology. It's worth real money to you to provide your techies with the latest and greatest equipment. Keeping your employees happy is a BIG part of keeping your employees productive -- and just keeping your employees. Having to replace *one* programmer because you refused to provide her/him with a 2nd monitor will wipe out all of the savings you could ever hope to achieve by penny-pinching on equipment over your entire career. I worked for an outfit like that once. I quit shortly after my request for a faster computer (the outdated one I had was taking several hours to do a typical build) was denied, and I found out that the manager had bought a state of the art system for his secretary, who did word-processing and email all day.
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Others have eluded to this, but the efficiency factor depends on what you want to be efficient at. I agree that the email on the right monitor with coding on the left *will* distract you from your coding, but in my job, as I am sure is the case with many others here, my coding is often second to the other requests that I receive via email or the instant messages I get. As one of the more experienced employees in the office, I have to react to my emails as quickly as possible or risk holding up time-critical technical problems that would sometimes severely damage our clients; I'm not one of the support representatives, but when they can't figure out the answer they lean on my experience as well as my ability to dig into the code. The real answer to the question of how many monitors are most efficient for any given individual is simply "it depends." It depends on what the individual needs to allow to distract himself, if anything as well as what he must not be distracted by. It depends on how many applications the individual needs (or would like) to be able to see at a glance at any given time. It depends on whether you can dart your eyes from one monitor to the other and quickly find your place faster or slower than you can use alt+tab to switch to the necessary application and do the same thing. It depends on how many different applications you have running. But even if you take email out of the picture, there are many times when having your specifications document on one monitor and your code on the other is much more efficient than using alt+tab, most notably when you're trying to pin down a particular section and compare the specs to the code. You could alternatively put both windows on a single screen, but that limits the amount of either one that is visible. Perhaps if I had one of those 24" monitors that seem to be so popular in this thread, I could manage to live with just one, but I go bonkers when I have applications that are not full screen. I don't know why, but I always have. The first thing I do when I open notepad is maximize it, every time, without exception. Can you say OCD?
sketch2002 wrote:
I go bonkers when I have applications that are not full screen. I don't know why, but I always have. The first thing I do when I open notepad is maximize it, every time, without exception. Can you say OCD?
You're not alone, I'm *exactly* the same way. If I'm standing behind someone using a computer and they open a window instead of full screen it's all I can do to not reach over them wrestle the mouse away from them and maximize it.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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Boss won't let you buy a second monitor, huh?
Software Zen:
delete this;I *am* the boss, I could have 45 monitors if I wanted, I could convert my entire office wall into a monitor if the technology exists and I have the inclination. If any of those things increased my productivity, even a bit, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately all multiple monitors do is exponentially decrease my focus and productivity (unless they are turned OFF).
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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I *am* the boss, I could have 45 monitors if I wanted, I could convert my entire office wall into a monitor if the technology exists and I have the inclination. If any of those things increased my productivity, even a bit, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately all multiple monitors do is exponentially decrease my focus and productivity (unless they are turned OFF).
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
So, because *you* don't need extra monitors, you assume nobody else does. As I said in another post, I'm glad I don't work for you, and I never will.
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Many Graphics cards allow you to use a vga or dvi splitter and connect that to two different screens - Probably a bit cheaper than buying a second graphics card. Check that your graphics card allows for [edit] "SLI" "Dual View" [/edit] mode. I'm using a 256MB Radeon x600 Pro (plus a cable splitter) which is cheap as chips now.
**IA Computing Ltd - Neonlight
**modified on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:34
iacomp wrote:
Many Graphics cards allow you to use a vga or dvi splitter and connect that to two different screens - Probably a bit cheaper than buying a second graphics card. Check that your graphics card allows for "SLI" mode.
I do believe you can only use 1 monitor in SLI mode. I just installed and set up a second video card the other day and set up SLI, but I could only get video on one monitor (And in the documentation, it mentions it only works on one monitor). When disabling SLI mode, I got video back on both monitors.
modified on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:57 AM
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Do you use dual monitor and how it is helping you?
Tapas Shome System Software Engineer Keen Computer Solutions 1408 Erin Street Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3E 2S8 http://www.keencomputer.com
Nope. I have a single 20-inch unit. I tried to go dual-monitor but found it distracting. All the "kids" here have dual-monitors, though. Seems to be the trend but not for me. I got enough to do with one! -CB ;-)
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"I don't and I wouldn't allow any developer working for me to use more than one monitor without providing actual measured proof that they are more efficient" I'm sure glad *I* don't work for a PHB like you. I have two high-res monitors sitting on my desk, and I'm about to get a third. I love it. I do high-performance graphics software for a living (and teach little kids how to play the violin on the side; if my management ever got to be an asshat like you, I'd be teaching violin full-time in about two weeks, and freelance programming on the side). One thing that managers tend to forget is that techies are largely motivated by getting to play with technology. It's worth real money to you to provide your techies with the latest and greatest equipment. Keeping your employees happy is a BIG part of keeping your employees productive -- and just keeping your employees. Having to replace *one* programmer because you refused to provide her/him with a 2nd monitor will wipe out all of the savings you could ever hope to achieve by penny-pinching on equipment over your entire career. I worked for an outfit like that once. I quit shortly after my request for a faster computer (the outdated one I had was taking several hours to do a typical build) was denied, and I found out that the manager had bought a state of the art system for his secretary, who did word-processing and email all day.
You got me all wrong on this one fortunately. I know techies are motivated by new technology that's not the point at all. We're a small company, efficiency is *everything*. There are no lengths I would not go to to improve efficiency by making sure the developer is as focused and happy as possible. But science is against the idea of multiple monitors, study after study shows that context switching is a very bad thing and despite all the high talk everyone uses to justify them I'd be willing to wager quite a sum that at least 50% of the time the second or other monitors are *not* being directly used for development purposes when someone is programming. All it takes is one flashing email notification in that right monitor to completely derail a programmers train of thought in the main monitor where they are working. So many posted here that they run email on the second monitor because they have to answer emails *while* programming! To me that is shocking and PHB-ness all the way. Any manager who doesn't understand this about programmers is a complete idiot- they need to focus to the exclusion of all else. If a programmer really thinks they can do their jobs without that intense almost trancelike focus then their job is completely redundant.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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Do you use dual monitor and how it is helping you?
Tapas Shome System Software Engineer Keen Computer Solutions 1408 Erin Street Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3E 2S8 http://www.keencomputer.com
Currently, I have dual 18" NEC MultiSync monitors that work great. However, in the next couple of weeks, management has made the decision to 'upgrade' to using only laptops with a 14.1" screen. No second monitors. :mad: At home, I have both 22" and 19" (ViewSonic)monitors that I use and am very happy with that arrangement.
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iacomp wrote:
Many Graphics cards allow you to use a vga or dvi splitter and connect that to two different screens - Probably a bit cheaper than buying a second graphics card. Check that your graphics card allows for "SLI" mode.
I do believe you can only use 1 monitor in SLI mode. I just installed and set up a second video card the other day and set up SLI, but I could only get video on one monitor (And in the documentation, it mentions it only works on one monitor). When disabling SLI mode, I got video back on both monitors.
modified on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:57 AM
Sorry, my mistake, I meant "Dual View" not "SLI". I had a similar problem with SLI. I read that the nvidia cards are unable to run SLI and Dual View simultaneously not sure about the ATI ones though.
**IA Computing Ltd - Neonlight
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Do you use dual monitor and how it is helping you?
Tapas Shome System Software Engineer Keen Computer Solutions 1408 Erin Street Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3E 2S8 http://www.keencomputer.com
Yeah, at home I've got a 24 and 15, 24 is main coding windows, with the 15 being documentation, MSDN, and test runs of the apps I'm coding. At work I'm (temporarily) stuck with a single 19 widescreen, but am going to move to a pair of 22s and have the 19 be on a secondary workstation. Probably will run a similar setup at that point.
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Do you use dual monitor and how it is helping you?
Tapas Shome System Software Engineer Keen Computer Solutions 1408 Erin Street Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3E 2S8 http://www.keencomputer.com
Simply... yes. I can have windows overlap intellegently such that various tasks are easier to do. Such as email opens up in the opposite window of my browser. STK opens in the opposite window of I-DEAS. A larger screen could do some of the job, but it is nice being able to use the maximize button without having the computer just decide to have the one window span the entire two screens across. Coding often leaves most other tasks in the other window so that I can refer back to them or pause and get back when I have to. Debugging is in the opposite window of VS. I try to keep it such that tasks that are mutually exclusive overlap, but sometimes it does get hard to pull off.
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So, because *you* don't need extra monitors, you assume nobody else does. As I said in another post, I'm glad I don't work for you, and I never will.
Don't be silly, here's why you'd never work for me: 0) You're reading comprehension well, frankly, it sucks. 1) You exhibit strong traits of close minded-ness, no ability to even consider an alternative point of view, not a sign of a creative thinker. 2) You jump to conclusions based on scant amounts of evidence where they will support your preconcieved notion. 3) You resent authority, consider yourself a "maverick" who can't live by other people's rules. I value that personality type highly but when it's combined with close mindednesss and quick jumping to conclusions it's not the creative genius trait that is so useful but a very negative combination that's disruptive and unproductive. ;)
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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You got me all wrong on this one fortunately. I know techies are motivated by new technology that's not the point at all. We're a small company, efficiency is *everything*. There are no lengths I would not go to to improve efficiency by making sure the developer is as focused and happy as possible. But science is against the idea of multiple monitors, study after study shows that context switching is a very bad thing and despite all the high talk everyone uses to justify them I'd be willing to wager quite a sum that at least 50% of the time the second or other monitors are *not* being directly used for development purposes when someone is programming. All it takes is one flashing email notification in that right monitor to completely derail a programmers train of thought in the main monitor where they are working. So many posted here that they run email on the second monitor because they have to answer emails *while* programming! To me that is shocking and PHB-ness all the way. Any manager who doesn't understand this about programmers is a complete idiot- they need to focus to the exclusion of all else. If a programmer really thinks they can do their jobs without that intense almost trancelike focus then their job is completely redundant.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
Even back when I was a beginning programmer, I liked two monitors (and that was back when monochrome monitors cost north of $1000). One for having documentation or listings open, and one for doing actual programming. At that time, having two monitors required two computers. When I couldn't get two monitors, I would print out whatever it was that I would have displayed on a second monitor and use a copy-holder. When Windows came along, that helped quite a bit, because I could quickly flip from one file to another, but I still preferred two monitors, and still do. Now that I have a NVidia Quadro that will drive 4 monitors, I dearly love having 3 monitors, one for viewing programming debugging, one for coding, and one for documentation and research. BTW, I keep my email program minimized, and check it whenever I come to a stopping point. Occasionally, I get a question from somebody about why I didn't respond instantly to an email, and I just tell them that if something needs an instant response, they need to come to my cube in person. The 'trancelike' state you describe is called 'Flow', and it is a major reason for my choice of programming as a career.
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Don't be silly, here's why you'd never work for me: 0) You're reading comprehension well, frankly, it sucks. 1) You exhibit strong traits of close minded-ness, no ability to even consider an alternative point of view, not a sign of a creative thinker. 2) You jump to conclusions based on scant amounts of evidence where they will support your preconcieved notion. 3) You resent authority, consider yourself a "maverick" who can't live by other people's rules. I value that personality type highly but when it's combined with close mindednesss and quick jumping to conclusions it's not the creative genius trait that is so useful but a very negative combination that's disruptive and unproductive. ;)
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
Your projection is showing. It's called "confirmation bias".
