Fact Checking Palin
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jgasm wrote:
if you look at the site, most of the content is cited.
One blogger cites another, cites another, cites Daily Kos. It's called throwing shit up against the side of the house to see if any of it sticks. Some of what is said in what he links to may be bang on, some of it may be as false as what they claim to be exposing, and some of it is, quite obviously, opinion. I haven't got time to read through that kind of crap when I know that a reputatble organization will take the time to delve down to the real truth - it does take time to do it right, you know. That's why factcheck.org has not yet published their analysis.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
One blogger cites another, cites another, cites Daily Kos. It's called throwing sh*t up against the side of the house to see if any of it stic
not really. if you took he time to actually looks at the claim and read the citation you would see these: [Investor’s Business Daily, 7/11/08] [Ketchikan Daily News, 10/2/06] [Anchorage Daily News, 6/22/08] [FY09 Budget] [FY08 Budget] [2007 Legislature Supplemental] The complaint is available at http://community.adn.com/sites/community.adn.com/files/McLeod Ethics Complaint1.pdf [Anchorage Daily News, http://community.adn.com/adn/node/128527, 8/6/08; Anchorage Daily News, http://www.adn.com/front/story/486163.html, 8/7/08] [USA Today, 8/31/08] [LA Times, 9/2/08] [KTVA 11, 07/28/08] [New York Times, 8/30/08] [Platts Inside FERC, 6/9/08] [Associated Press, August 30, 2008]
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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Oakman wrote:
One blogger cites another, cites another, cites Daily Kos. It's called throwing sh*t up against the side of the house to see if any of it stic
not really. if you took he time to actually looks at the claim and read the citation you would see these: [Investor’s Business Daily, 7/11/08] [Ketchikan Daily News, 10/2/06] [Anchorage Daily News, 6/22/08] [FY09 Budget] [FY08 Budget] [2007 Legislature Supplemental] The complaint is available at http://community.adn.com/sites/community.adn.com/files/McLeod Ethics Complaint1.pdf [Anchorage Daily News, http://community.adn.com/adn/node/128527, 8/6/08; Anchorage Daily News, http://www.adn.com/front/story/486163.html, 8/7/08] [USA Today, 8/31/08] [LA Times, 9/2/08] [KTVA 11, 07/28/08] [New York Times, 8/30/08] [Platts Inside FERC, 6/9/08] [Associated Press, August 30, 2008]
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
You don't understand, do you? What you are looking at is a press release from the Obama campaign. That is why you can't check the citations. You have to take their word for it that they gave you all of the facts. And if you believe that, I have got a Bridge to Nowhere, I'd like to sell you. ;)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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JoeSox wrote:
CBS apparently agrees with these facts. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/04/politics/animal/main4414049.shtml\[^\]
Here you are not reporting about CBS news but one of their bloggers who is being paid to have an opinion. So again I ask you - were you taken in or did you think the rest of us were that stupid?
JoeSox wrote:
Get real.
Oh I am quite real. And I don't believe that everything any politician says is word-for-word truth. However, I try not to insult the other people in here by passing off fiction or half-truths as fact, and I prefer to read what a real fact-checking organization says. I am sure that right now, factcheck.org is preparing a report on Palin's speech and I am equally sure that it will be more thorough and less slanted than anything you have tried to pass off as "real." And I expect it will expose a number of exagerations, excuses, and outright lies - as they have done for all the candidates for some time.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Here you are not reporting about CBS news but one of their bloggers who is being paid to have an opinion.
You are hinting at a hasty generalization. You seriously believe that there is a conspiracy? Being real means you can not assume such things nor ignore the facts.
Oakman wrote:
Oh I am quite real.
I see no evidence of that so far.
Oakman wrote:
I am sure that right now, factcheck.org is preparing a report on Palin's speech and I am equally sure that it will be more thorough and less slanted than anything you have tried to pass off as "real." And I expect it will expose a number of exagerations, excuses, and outright lies - as they have done for all the candidates for some time.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin_part_ii.html[^] not much different.
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - Joesox.com
modified on Thursday, September 4, 2008 7:58 PM
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You don't understand, do you? What you are looking at is a press release from the Obama campaign. That is why you can't check the citations. You have to take their word for it that they gave you all of the facts. And if you believe that, I have got a Bridge to Nowhere, I'd like to sell you. ;)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
You don't understand, do you? What you are looking at is a press release from the Obama campaign.
Are are ignoring that facts from the cited websites. gov etc. Did you even look?
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - Joesox.com
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jgasm wrote:
according the the budget, she cut the disability budget of alaska by 60some percent.
Or possibly she moved the funding from one section of the budget to another. I am NOT saying that happened, just that you don't know that it didn't and you cannot trust the source you are reading to tell you all the facts.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Face it you're in love. Palin the hot soccer mom, eh? :-D
My Blog: http://cynicalclots.blogspot.com
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Oakman wrote:
Here you are not reporting about CBS news but one of their bloggers who is being paid to have an opinion.
You are hinting at a hasty generalization. You seriously believe that there is a conspiracy? Being real means you can not assume such things nor ignore the facts.
Oakman wrote:
Oh I am quite real.
I see no evidence of that so far.
Oakman wrote:
I am sure that right now, factcheck.org is preparing a report on Palin's speech and I am equally sure that it will be more thorough and less slanted than anything you have tried to pass off as "real." And I expect it will expose a number of exagerations, excuses, and outright lies - as they have done for all the candidates for some time.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin_part_ii.html[^] not much different.
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - Joesox.com
modified on Thursday, September 4, 2008 7:58 PM
JoeSox wrote:
You seriously believe that there is a conspiracy
Never used the word, never had the thought. It's my experience that it's usually conspiracy believers who are quick to expect others to share their paranoias.
JoeSox wrote:
I see no evidence of that so far.
Surely if I was a figment of your imagination I would accept your every word as gospel. But if you really think you are talking to an imaginary being - how about a little homage to my supernaturalness. I'll send an usher around with an offering plate. . .
JoeSox wrote:
not much different
Did you think I wouldn't go there? Or just hoping, once again, that everyone was stupid enough to take your untruths as "real?" They called her on three things: 1. She was originally in favor of Bridge to Nowhere, and turned it down only when it looked like Congress was about to kill it. 2. She said Obama never authored major legislation, making sound like the legislation he helped push through Congress didn't happen. 3. She said McCain was a fighter pilot when he actually flew the A4 fighter/bomber. That last is of course, a shocking error. There were some minor caveats about other things she said, but they can be read at your link. It was hardly the shopping list of falsehoods you originally claimed came from a fact-checking organization but was actually a reprint of an Obama Campaign handout.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
You don't understand, do you? What you are looking at is a press release from the Obama campaign.
Are are ignoring that facts from the cited websites. gov etc. Did you even look?
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - Joesox.com
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Face it you're in love. Palin the hot soccer mom, eh? :-D
My Blog: http://cynicalclots.blogspot.com
Dirk Higbee wrote:
Face it you're in love. Palin the hot soccer mom, eh?
Lord, no. My women, for the most part, have been much prettier, with far more seductive voices, as well as tits and bellies not stretched out by five kids. Anyone who thinks that she's "hot" is too drunk to drive.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campaign_2008_/2008/09/palin_v_reality.php[^] Oh crap, I didn't know my web browser could display so much text.
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - Joesox.com
You may have noticed by now that the standard defense of Palin on this siteis to simply claim that all critics of Palin are liars. Makes it simple, doesn't it?
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JoeSox wrote:
Are are ignoring that facts from the cited websites. gov etc. Did you even look?
How can I check? The citations are not links.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
How can I check? The citations are not links.
Are you serious?? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/04/politics/animal/main4414049.shtml[^] http://www.gov.state.ak.us/omb/07_OMB/budget/EED/comp2735.pdf[^] http://www.gov.state.ak.us/omb/08_OMB/budget/EED/comp2735.pdf[^] I counted 19 in total. You are tell all of us you did not see 19 links as citations? I was going to post screenshots with circles are them but I thought I would be wasting my time.
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - Joesox.com
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JoeSox wrote:
You seriously believe that there is a conspiracy
Never used the word, never had the thought. It's my experience that it's usually conspiracy believers who are quick to expect others to share their paranoias.
JoeSox wrote:
I see no evidence of that so far.
Surely if I was a figment of your imagination I would accept your every word as gospel. But if you really think you are talking to an imaginary being - how about a little homage to my supernaturalness. I'll send an usher around with an offering plate. . .
JoeSox wrote:
not much different
Did you think I wouldn't go there? Or just hoping, once again, that everyone was stupid enough to take your untruths as "real?" They called her on three things: 1. She was originally in favor of Bridge to Nowhere, and turned it down only when it looked like Congress was about to kill it. 2. She said Obama never authored major legislation, making sound like the legislation he helped push through Congress didn't happen. 3. She said McCain was a fighter pilot when he actually flew the A4 fighter/bomber. That last is of course, a shocking error. There were some minor caveats about other things she said, but they can be read at your link. It was hardly the shopping list of falsehoods you originally claimed came from a fact-checking organization but was actually a reprint of an Obama Campaign handout.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
never had the thought.
You most certainly did. You argued that such information was biased and deliberately pushed out as propaganda.
Oakman wrote:
Did you think I wouldn't go there?
If you did you would have seen the numerous link citations also! :doh:
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - Joesox.com
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jgasm wrote:
if you look at the site, most of the content is cited.
One blogger cites another, cites another, cites Daily Kos. It's called throwing shit up against the side of the house to see if any of it sticks. Some of what is said in what he links to may be bang on, some of it may be as false as what they claim to be exposing, and some of it is, quite obviously, opinion. I haven't got time to read through that kind of crap when I know that a reputatble organization will take the time to delve down to the real truth - it does take time to do it right, you know. That's why factcheck.org has not yet published their analysis.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
It's called throwing sh*t up against the side of the house to see if any of it sticks.
:laugh: Haven't heard that one in years!
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
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http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campaign_2008_/2008/09/palin_v_reality.php[^] Oh crap, I didn't know my web browser could display so much text.
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - Joesox.com
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Oakman wrote:
never had the thought.
You most certainly did. You argued that such information was biased and deliberately pushed out as propaganda.
Oakman wrote:
Did you think I wouldn't go there?
If you did you would have seen the numerous link citations also! :doh:
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - Joesox.com
Fascinating. Having discovered that you can't pass off a press release of the Democratic Party as a fact-check document, you' ve decided to expend all your energy attacking me. Let us grant for the sake of your argument that I am a terrible person; That I think there is a vast left-wing conspiracy; That I went to http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campaign_2008_/2008/09/palin_v_reality.php and decided to lie about the links I saw there. Giess what: you still need to answer the question - did you deliberately lie about the information on samefacts.org because you thought people were stupid, or did you get taken in yourself? By the way. I checked again this morning. There are no, nada, none, zip links at http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campaign_2008_/2008/09/palin_v_reality.php
JoeSox wrote:
Oakman wrote: Did you think I wouldn't go there? If you did you would have seen the numerous link citations also!
I'm beginning to question your intelligence. I was talking about factcheck.org. Whether they are linked or not, they are a reputable site.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
How can I check? The citations are not links.
Are you serious?? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/04/politics/animal/main4414049.shtml[^] http://www.gov.state.ak.us/omb/07_OMB/budget/EED/comp2735.pdf[^] http://www.gov.state.ak.us/omb/08_OMB/budget/EED/comp2735.pdf[^] I counted 19 in total. You are tell all of us you did not see 19 links as citations? I was going to post screenshots with circles are them but I thought I would be wasting my time.
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - Joesox.com
The site you referred me to originally was http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campaign_2008_/2008/09/palin_v_reality.php and I repeat: there are no links there.
JoeSox wrote:
I thought I would be wasting my time.
As soo as I pointed out that you were trying to pass off a Democratic Party Press release as a fact-check web page, you were wasting your time.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
It's called throwing sh*t up against the side of the house to see if any of it sticks.
:laugh: Haven't heard that one in years!
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
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You may have noticed by now that the standard defense of Palin on this siteis to simply claim that all critics of Palin are liars. Makes it simple, doesn't it?
oilFactotum wrote:
You may have noticed by now that the standard defense of Palin on this siteis to simply claim that all critics of Palin are liars. Makes it simple, doesn't it?
Who is defending Palin? Is pointing out that Joesox is trying to pass off a Press Release as a fact-checked web page, defending her?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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oilFactotum wrote:
You may have noticed by now that the standard defense of Palin on this siteis to simply claim that all critics of Palin are liars. Makes it simple, doesn't it?
Who is defending Palin? Is pointing out that Joesox is trying to pass off a Press Release as a fact-checked web page, defending her?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Actually you spent a good portion of your time attacking the veracity of the sources - in effect, calling them liars. I rest my case.
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Actually you spent a good portion of your time attacking the veracity of the sources - in effect, calling them liars. I rest my case.
oilFactotum wrote:
Actually you spent a good portion of your time attacking the veracity of the sources
Exactly. I'm glad to find we are in agreement. We were being told by Joesox that a Democratic blog and a Democratic press release were good sources to find fact-checked information about Palin. I said, over and over again that we needed to wait for factcheck.org. In case it escaped your notice that, when factcheck published their findings, I did not question them, and/or if it slipped your mind that I ticked off the top three negatives about Palin that they reported, I assure you that I did.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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The site you referred me to originally was http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campaign_2008_/2008/09/palin_v_reality.php and I repeat: there are no links there.
JoeSox wrote:
I thought I would be wasting my time.
As soo as I pointed out that you were trying to pass off a Democratic Party Press release as a fact-check web page, you were wasting your time.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
As soo as I pointed out that you were trying to pass off a Democratic Party Press release as a fact-check web page, you were wasting your time.
I never said that. Where did I say that?????? I pasted a link and *its* subject matter. In any event, the facts are still facts and check-out. You immediately jumped all over the post; made you hasty generalizations! Wonder why some CPians are complaining about the Soapbox around here and why I rarely post here any more.
Oakman wrote:
there are no links there.
Then I sent the second link that does have links, which you continue to ignore.
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - Joesox.com