It be an electric revolution!
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evilnoodle wrote:
costin' ye yer treasure chest te fill-up!
Arggg, perhaps not... but it be cosin' ye yer treasure chest to purchase!
Harvey Saayman - South Africa Junior Developer .Net, C#, SQL
you.suck = (you.Passion != Programming & you.Occupation == jobTitles.Programmer)1000100 1101111 1100101 1110011 100000 1110100 1101000 1101001 1110011 100000 1101101 1100101 1100001 1101110 100000 1101001 1101101 100000 1100001 100000 1100111 1100101 1100101 1101011 111111 -
Arr me lad. Methinks you should be changing your handle to Jolly Roger for today. Arrr.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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evilnoodle wrote:
costin' ye yer treasure chest te fill-up!
Arggg, perhaps not... but it be cosin' ye yer treasure chest to purchase!
Harvey Saayman - South Africa Junior Developer .Net, C#, SQL
you.suck = (you.Passion != Programming & you.Occupation == jobTitles.Programmer)1000100 1101111 1100101 1110011 100000 1110100 1101000 1101001 1110011 100000 1101101 1100101 1100001 1101110 100000 1101001 1101101 100000 1100001 100000 1100111 1100101 1100101 1101011 111111 -
The impact on yer treasure chest be the $109,000 bill to buy it.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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The impact on yer treasure chest be the $109,000 bill to buy it.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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That be selfish pirate talk! Howz about takin' one (or 109 thousand) for yer environment!? ;P Where be pirates with some' integrity! (and many hidden treasures ;) )
Davy jones'Locker!
------------------------------------ Credit is a system whereby a person who can not pay gets another person who can not pay to guarantee that he can pay. - Charles Dickens
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Harvey Saayman wrote:
Arggg, perhaps not... but it be cosin' ye yer treasure chest to purchase!
Arrrgh, right yer be! :laugh: I be wanting a pirate smiley ter post here. Chris? :-O
aye! i rate we get ourselves a crew and plunder the factory!
Harvey Saayman - South Africa Junior Developer .Net, C#, SQL
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You want an environmentally friendly car?[^] It's slowly becoming public knowledge that the Defender-style Land Rovers are more environmentally friendly than a Prius by a long-shot. I also remember reading some research somewhere that if you floor the Supercharged Range Rover Sport (with the V8) it produces fewer emissions per mile than a London Cabbie driven normally.
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You want an environmentally friendly car?[^] It's slowly becoming public knowledge that the Defender-style Land Rovers are more environmentally friendly than a Prius by a long-shot. I also remember reading some research somewhere that if you floor the Supercharged Range Rover Sport (with the V8) it produces fewer emissions per mile than a London Cabbie driven normally.
Ed.Poore wrote:
It's slowly becoming public knowledge that the Defender-style Land Rovers are more environmentally friendly than a Prius by a long-shot.
Complete and utter unmitigated trash. The 'research' on which this claim is based cannot be reproduced because the author won't publish their methodology, but basically they seem to be putting far more weight on the production and disposal parts of the car's lifecycle than any other study supports. I've written about it before here[^]. My displayed lifetime fuel consumption is now 60.2 miles per (Imperial) gallon, over more than 4,000 miles. Many owners report a 2-3% overestimate compared to actual fuel purchase records. I haven't computed mine recently although I do have all the data.
"Multithreading is just one damn thing after, before, or simultaneous with another." - Andrei Alexandrescu
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Ed.Poore wrote:
It's slowly becoming public knowledge that the Defender-style Land Rovers are more environmentally friendly than a Prius by a long-shot.
Complete and utter unmitigated trash. The 'research' on which this claim is based cannot be reproduced because the author won't publish their methodology, but basically they seem to be putting far more weight on the production and disposal parts of the car's lifecycle than any other study supports. I've written about it before here[^]. My displayed lifetime fuel consumption is now 60.2 miles per (Imperial) gallon, over more than 4,000 miles. Many owners report a 2-3% overestimate compared to actual fuel purchase records. I haven't computed mine recently although I do have all the data.
"Multithreading is just one damn thing after, before, or simultaneous with another." - Andrei Alexandrescu
Mike Dimmick wrote:
but basically they seem to be putting far more weight on the production and disposal parts of the car's lifecycle
Sorry but when you consider that most Land Rovers will continue working through 30 years the production and disposal of parts plays a big part compared to other vehicles. For example, my Series III is a "new" one (from 1983) and that's been going for 25 years now. It was left to rot before I got hold of it so I've been putting it onto a new galvanised chassis, made from British steel so no transport costs like on the Prius. Once it's back on the road then I can easily see it doing another 50 years because everything apart from the engine, gearbox, exhaust and axles is now either galvanised or aluminium so the structure is going to be rock-solid no matter what is thrown at it. I am not planning to get rid of it because of the following reasons:
- Labour is Cheap - I do all the work on it myself, having no mechanical expertise to begin with I'm quite happy to do anything on it because it's simple and dare I say it well designed1.
- Parts are cheap - Having replaced the chassis with a galvanised on, new complete set of brakes, new lights, a 10,000lbs winch, galvanised bulkhead and corner posts and various odds and ends (including tools) I haven't spent £1500 on it yet.
- Does everything, with running the gun club, farm work, Duke of Edinburgh expeditions and general stuff what other vehicle is capable of all that and doing it in any conditions?
All this bother about the cost of tax going up, even now when it's £180 / year, that's still only 3 full tanks so what's the big issue, it's next to nothing. Going onto your points about fuel consumption, I've just driven my sister's Td5 90 400 miles from West Wales to London and trips around London sorting stuff out. The 300 miles from home to London were carrying 1/4 of a tonne in the back with stuff for Uni. Averaging it's top speed of about 70mph all the way and carrying that load (and certainly not driving efficiently) she averaged 25mpg, considering it's as aerodynamic as a brick, carrying 1/4 of a tonne and doing reasonable speeds in comfort I think that's pretty good. And again we will not be getting rid of that Land Rover so that's going to be another 30 or 40 years of use of that provided other stuff (like the Government) don't get in the way. It all depends on how long you keep the vehicle. To gi
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I am not that rich. Besides if I had $100K to spend I would pay off the rest of my mortgage instead and buy a sensible car that cost less than $20K US.
John
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I am not that rich. Besides if I had $100K to spend I would pay off the rest of my mortgage instead and buy a sensible car that cost less than $20K US.
John
At least the electric car is getting a fair chance to prove itself. And what better way than with a sports car! I'm sure that once the technology has been proven successful for replacing everyday civilian vehicles without unreasonable sacrifices, we'll start seeing entry-level and more affordable electric vehicles coming into the market for the general population. I cant find the link now, but I read some guy saying that they predict electric vehicles becoming mainstream in the US within the next 30 years.
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At least the electric car is getting a fair chance to prove itself. And what better way than with a sports car! I'm sure that once the technology has been proven successful for replacing everyday civilian vehicles without unreasonable sacrifices, we'll start seeing entry-level and more affordable electric vehicles coming into the market for the general population. I cant find the link now, but I read some guy saying that they predict electric vehicles becoming mainstream in the US within the next 30 years.
Keelvol wrote:
they predict electric vehicles becoming mainstream in the US within the next 30 years
That is definitely possible. I mean there will be no (non man made) oil left in the world in 30 years so gasoline cars will not exist unless converted to run on some form of alcohol.
John
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evilnoodle wrote:
Now the question that be buggin' me... what be the impact on me electricity bill?
Good question - something like 80% of electricity is produced from either coal or petroleum. End to end efficiency is on par with gas powered, so what is the real energy savings? What is the $ and environmental cost of producing and replacing batteries very few years? What is the real cost and environmental savings? Where will new electrical infrastructure be built? Nuclear power plants in your backyard or mine? Who is going to pay? Is the government going to give up the tax revenue from gas when everyone switches to electric? Seems like electricity might get much more expensive. Not trying to knock the idea, I like the concept. But these are questions that need solutions before we blindly jump on the electric band wagon. Let's not repeat the ethanol fiasco of deciding to burn our corn instead of producing food!
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Ed.Poore wrote:
It's slowly becoming public knowledge that the Defender-style Land Rovers are more environmentally friendly than a Prius by a long-shot.
Complete and utter unmitigated trash. The 'research' on which this claim is based cannot be reproduced because the author won't publish their methodology, but basically they seem to be putting far more weight on the production and disposal parts of the car's lifecycle than any other study supports. I've written about it before here[^]. My displayed lifetime fuel consumption is now 60.2 miles per (Imperial) gallon, over more than 4,000 miles. Many owners report a 2-3% overestimate compared to actual fuel purchase records. I haven't computed mine recently although I do have all the data.
"Multithreading is just one damn thing after, before, or simultaneous with another." - Andrei Alexandrescu
It depends what you use your Prius for. Town driving, good on you. Long distances, higher speeds, get an efficient, second-hand diesel instead.
cheers, Paul M. Watson.
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evilnoodle wrote:
Now the question that be buggin' me... what be the impact on me electricity bill?
Good question - something like 80% of electricity is produced from either coal or petroleum. End to end efficiency is on par with gas powered, so what is the real energy savings? What is the $ and environmental cost of producing and replacing batteries very few years? What is the real cost and environmental savings? Where will new electrical infrastructure be built? Nuclear power plants in your backyard or mine? Who is going to pay? Is the government going to give up the tax revenue from gas when everyone switches to electric? Seems like electricity might get much more expensive. Not trying to knock the idea, I like the concept. But these are questions that need solutions before we blindly jump on the electric band wagon. Let's not repeat the ethanol fiasco of deciding to burn our corn instead of producing food!
I read somewhere that, if as little as 30% of Americans switch to electric vehicles which they charge at night, the power grid would be unable to cope with the load and the US will have an even greater energy crisis. So we need to look at renewable sources of energy. But the government would have to subsidize the technology to make solar panels much cheaper. Here in South Africa, solar panels are so expensive, it's like gluing a huge chunk of gold on your roof-top and thinking it will stay there. Obviously these things get stolen faster than you can finish paying for them. So if they become cheaper, the demand will gradually decrease and it will actually be possible to install without worrying about the night monkeys running away with it. So, every electric car should have TWO battery packs, one that remains at home to charge during the day from the solar panels, and one that you drive around with. In the morning you simply "swop" the two packs (weight is still an issue). To compensate for cloudy days, the charging circuit should be loaded with some logic to detect that, if by sundown the battery hasn't charged yet, charge it via the normal AC mains. Imagine if 30% of all cars in the US run on renewable energy...
Member 4723455 wrote:
What is the $ and environmental cost of producing and replacing batteries very few years?
I don't know much about this, are batteries expensive/hard to re-cycle?
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I read somewhere that, if as little as 30% of Americans switch to electric vehicles which they charge at night, the power grid would be unable to cope with the load and the US will have an even greater energy crisis. So we need to look at renewable sources of energy. But the government would have to subsidize the technology to make solar panels much cheaper. Here in South Africa, solar panels are so expensive, it's like gluing a huge chunk of gold on your roof-top and thinking it will stay there. Obviously these things get stolen faster than you can finish paying for them. So if they become cheaper, the demand will gradually decrease and it will actually be possible to install without worrying about the night monkeys running away with it. So, every electric car should have TWO battery packs, one that remains at home to charge during the day from the solar panels, and one that you drive around with. In the morning you simply "swop" the two packs (weight is still an issue). To compensate for cloudy days, the charging circuit should be loaded with some logic to detect that, if by sundown the battery hasn't charged yet, charge it via the normal AC mains. Imagine if 30% of all cars in the US run on renewable energy...
Member 4723455 wrote:
What is the $ and environmental cost of producing and replacing batteries very few years?
I don't know much about this, are batteries expensive/hard to re-cycle?
evilnoodle wrote:
What is the $ and environmental cost of producing and replacing batteries very few years? I don't know much about this, are batteries expensive/hard to re-cycle?
Lead acid batteries are the easiest & cheapest to recycle because the chemistry is simple & we have had a long time to figure it out. But lead acid is not viable as a car battery due to its poor energy storage to wgt ratio. More exotic batteries are both dangerous and expensive to build and recycle due to the materials (lithium, etc). At the moment this company http://www.toxco.com[^] claims they are the only company in the world that can recycle lithium batteries safely. Solar power is ultimately the best energy source, but solar cells are not the solution. They have such low efficiency and lack storage capacity, you cannot cover enough area with them to meet the energy demand. Concentrated solar energy systems with integral heat storage mediums are much more cost effective and efficient. But very little research has been done since the ‘70’s so they are largely still experimental and the “best” solution is unknown. As you suggest solar will need lots of tax $ to build. Nuclear is the only near term solution for large qty's of affordable energy - and no one wants them built.
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It depends what you use your Prius for. Town driving, good on you. Long distances, higher speeds, get an efficient, second-hand diesel instead.
cheers, Paul M. Watson.
I drive 32 miles every day (16 each way), at speeds between 20 (through Sonning village) and 60 (on the A4). A same-sized diesel is not efficient in comparison. Very small diesels do slightly better on fuel consumption and CO2 emissions, but are dirtier in terms of NOx emissions and particulate.
"Multithreading is just one damn thing after, before, or simultaneous with another." - Andrei Alexandrescu