Going with Virtual Machines. Which and When?
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So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So... 1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter? 2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance): 1. Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later. 2. Keep a mean-and-lean development environment without burdening my system with all the software I install/use, but only use occasionally. I.e, I should be able to switch systems quickly as I work. 3.1. Install and work with different operating systems such as Linux/Ubanutu, Vista et al. 3.2. Test software I've written under different configurations and operating system versions. 3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work). Thank you in advance for the suggestions. ssclaire
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So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So... 1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter? 2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance): 1. Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later. 2. Keep a mean-and-lean development environment without burdening my system with all the software I install/use, but only use occasionally. I.e, I should be able to switch systems quickly as I work. 3.1. Install and work with different operating systems such as Linux/Ubanutu, Vista et al. 3.2. Test software I've written under different configurations and operating system versions. 3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work). Thank you in advance for the suggestions. ssclaire
ssclaire wrote:
1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter?
I would do that after you get your host system running but that is a matter of taste.
ssclaire wrote:
2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance):
Neither of your chioces. They both suck. VPC is old (not developed as much as the other 2) and VMWARE free is crippled. Use the latest virtualbox instead.
John
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So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So... 1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter? 2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance): 1. Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later. 2. Keep a mean-and-lean development environment without burdening my system with all the software I install/use, but only use occasionally. I.e, I should be able to switch systems quickly as I work. 3.1. Install and work with different operating systems such as Linux/Ubanutu, Vista et al. 3.2. Test software I've written under different configurations and operating system versions. 3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work). Thank you in advance for the suggestions. ssclaire
Answer 1: doesn't really matter at what point you install a VM, what matters is disk space, since a VM is a full install of an operating system and any/all applications you want on there. Answer 2: I use two, and have had great success with both: a) Microsoft Virtual PC for my Windows based VMs
- make sure, when you create a new VM, you specify a LARGE disk size with far more space than you'll need. The VM doesn't fully allocate the entire quested size, but grows the disk as you need more space. If you fail to allocate a large enough disk in the beginning you'll not be able to resize the VM disk later on, and you'll be hosed.
- make sure you install the "Add-ons", which gives you better flexibility between your desktop and the VM in terms of mouse control and drag/drop.
b) Virtual Box for everything else (Linux, in my case) Answer 3: Depends on your machine. I'm running a 2.3GHz Intel Core 2 Duo with 4gb ram, and I generally have all sorts of running apps open on my main desktop, a VM running with all sorts of apps open inside it, and the system hardly blinks a eye at all of it.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTL -
So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So... 1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter? 2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance): 1. Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later. 2. Keep a mean-and-lean development environment without burdening my system with all the software I install/use, but only use occasionally. I.e, I should be able to switch systems quickly as I work. 3.1. Install and work with different operating systems such as Linux/Ubanutu, Vista et al. 3.2. Test software I've written under different configurations and operating system versions. 3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work). Thank you in advance for the suggestions. ssclaire
ssclaire wrote:
2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance):
vmware. I beta tested vmware workstation, copied previous computer entirely as-is into VM and work machine. I added new new vms via beta workstation, and now run player. :) piece of cake! I will buy workstation, but funds at home/business need a bit more work to do so.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So... 1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter? 2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance): 1. Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later. 2. Keep a mean-and-lean development environment without burdening my system with all the software I install/use, but only use occasionally. I.e, I should be able to switch systems quickly as I work. 3.1. Install and work with different operating systems such as Linux/Ubanutu, Vista et al. 3.2. Test software I've written under different configurations and operating system versions. 3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work). Thank you in advance for the suggestions. ssclaire
I'm running XP on Virtual PC 2007 on my Vista Home Premium machine. Works good.
My Blog: http://cynicalclots.blogspot.com
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So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So... 1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter? 2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance): 1. Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later. 2. Keep a mean-and-lean development environment without burdening my system with all the software I install/use, but only use occasionally. I.e, I should be able to switch systems quickly as I work. 3.1. Install and work with different operating systems such as Linux/Ubanutu, Vista et al. 3.2. Test software I've written under different configurations and operating system versions. 3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work). Thank you in advance for the suggestions. ssclaire
ssclaire wrote:
So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So...
Just a single core CPU? And only 2.5gb RAM? It's painfully obvious that you have absolutely no experience.
ssclaire wrote:
1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter?
VMs don't live outside your host OS, so it's not like dual booting or anything like that. First you install a host OS (the one that actually boots your machine), then install the VM software of your choice (Virtual PC, VirtualBox, or VMWare), and then install a guess OS into the VM software.
ssclaire wrote:
(free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment)
Then why are you going half-ass on the hardware?
ssclaire wrote:
Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later.
That means you're going to use up twice the disk space for the vm files (can be as small as 5gb (Linux), but your typical XP VM is 12gb, and that's before installing software in it. SO, your virgin vm takes 12gb, and the copy takes another. You better buy a bigger hard drive (BTW, I'm assuming that you meant 750GB, and not 750MB).
ssclaire wrote:
3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work).
Given your hardware list, your performance is gonna suck big hairy elephant scrotum. If you're serious about running VMs, you should have AT LEAST a dual-core cpu that supports VM extentions, you should be running a 64-bit host OS so you can use more tha
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So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So... 1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter? 2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance): 1. Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later. 2. Keep a mean-and-lean development environment without burdening my system with all the software I install/use, but only use occasionally. I.e, I should be able to switch systems quickly as I work. 3.1. Install and work with different operating systems such as Linux/Ubanutu, Vista et al. 3.2. Test software I've written under different configurations and operating system versions. 3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work). Thank you in advance for the suggestions. ssclaire
In the past 3 years, I've used Virtual PC, VMWare WorkStation, and VMWare Server. Here is my quick opinion... Microsoft's Virtual PC gave me the most problems such as: - Lacks USB support. - Automatically syncs the virtual machine's clock with the host's clock when I don't want it too and it may do this several times a day. This can cause some software to go a bit haywire. - Crashes for software requring a hardware dongle. * Note: When I attended a software conference, I caught Microsoft demonstrating their software inside of VMWare. Here's my opinion of VMWare Server: + It's free. + Allows you to easily create Virtual Machines. + Designed to run multiple VMs at once. + Support USB devices, but 50% of the time it has trouble detecting them. + VMs can be automatically started and logged into on host machine startup. + No security dongle issues. - Can only take one snapshot. - The interface to the virtual machine is a bit sluggish, even on a fast machine when running it locally. Feels more like a Remote Desktop... probably because it was designed designed to be ran over the network. My opinion of VMWare Workstation: + Can easily creat Virtual Machines. + Can take multiple snapshots and fork them. Great for software testing. + UI interaction is fast... much better than VMWare Server. + No security dongle issues. - Costs money... but it is worth it. - Not designed to run multiple VMs at once due to its tabbed interface, but it can do it. - VM must be started manually. As far as performance, you need to make sure that you have lots of RAM and allocate enough RAM to the VM, like 1 GB if you want it to be really snappy. A dual core machine should be enough if you only plan on running 1 VM at a time.
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So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So... 1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter? 2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance): 1. Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later. 2. Keep a mean-and-lean development environment without burdening my system with all the software I install/use, but only use occasionally. I.e, I should be able to switch systems quickly as I work. 3.1. Install and work with different operating systems such as Linux/Ubanutu, Vista et al. 3.2. Test software I've written under different configurations and operating system versions. 3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work). Thank you in advance for the suggestions. ssclaire
Been using VMWare for quite some time now, and it does well :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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ssclaire wrote:
So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So...
Just a single core CPU? And only 2.5gb RAM? It's painfully obvious that you have absolutely no experience.
ssclaire wrote:
1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter?
VMs don't live outside your host OS, so it's not like dual booting or anything like that. First you install a host OS (the one that actually boots your machine), then install the VM software of your choice (Virtual PC, VirtualBox, or VMWare), and then install a guess OS into the VM software.
ssclaire wrote:
(free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment)
Then why are you going half-ass on the hardware?
ssclaire wrote:
Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later.
That means you're going to use up twice the disk space for the vm files (can be as small as 5gb (Linux), but your typical XP VM is 12gb, and that's before installing software in it. SO, your virgin vm takes 12gb, and the copy takes another. You better buy a bigger hard drive (BTW, I'm assuming that you meant 750GB, and not 750MB).
ssclaire wrote:
3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work).
Given your hardware list, your performance is gonna suck big hairy elephant scrotum. If you're serious about running VMs, you should have AT LEAST a dual-core cpu that supports VM extentions, you should be running a 64-bit host OS so you can use more tha
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
big hairy elephant scrotum
That's an image I don't need in my mind thanks! X|
Dave
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)
Expect everything to be hard and then enjoy the things that come easy. (code-frog) -
So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So... 1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter? 2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance): 1. Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later. 2. Keep a mean-and-lean development environment without burdening my system with all the software I install/use, but only use occasionally. I.e, I should be able to switch systems quickly as I work. 3.1. Install and work with different operating systems such as Linux/Ubanutu, Vista et al. 3.2. Test software I've written under different configurations and operating system versions. 3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work). Thank you in advance for the suggestions. ssclaire
Wow, so much bad advice there I had to jump in. If you are serious about this buy a copy of VMWare workstation. I've used virtual pc and virtual box extensively, neither hold a candle to VMWare, they were there first and continue to put heavy effort behind their product. There really is no comparison at all. If you want free go with Virtual box but be aware it's *nothing* like VMWare in terms of features.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So... 1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter? 2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance): 1. Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later. 2. Keep a mean-and-lean development environment without burdening my system with all the software I install/use, but only use occasionally. I.e, I should be able to switch systems quickly as I work. 3.1. Install and work with different operating systems such as Linux/Ubanutu, Vista et al. 3.2. Test software I've written under different configurations and operating system versions. 3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work). Thank you in advance for the suggestions. ssclaire
VMWare will have the better performance most likely, but as john mentioned your hardware is quite lacking, and i say this as a guy who spent the last year working on a virtualization platform based off virtual server (which is based off virtual pc) on a side note, some of my testing with the new Hyper V, really impresses me :) i'm very excited for the direction it is going. Although i will rant about the fact that they took away my interop dll for the COM interface, and replaced with WMI (which makes C# programming super difficult in comparison) but they made up for it when i saw what the new Hyper Call library is capable of!!
Einstein argued that there must be simplified explanations of nature, because God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software engineer. -Fred Brooks
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So I'm re-formatting/upgrading my system with more memory (XP, 2.8GHz single core, 2.5GB RAM, 750MB HD) and want to install virtual machines. I have no experience with virtual technology. So... 1st Question: When? I am reformatting. When is it best to install the virtual system? Before 1st OS installation? Right after 1st OS installation (bare install). Or, after I get the rest of my applications/utilities installed and up to speed. Does it matter? 2nd Question: Which one? I was going to go with Virtual PC but I am also considering VMware (free VPC is good but I don't want to cripple my system over a modest investment). So here are my needs (in order of importance): 1. Be able to test lots of "trial software" installations and trash them when I am done without cluttering up my "real" system. I.e., I should be able to create quick snapshots of a system or load a new system quickly from some sort of "saved installation" and delete it later. 2. Keep a mean-and-lean development environment without burdening my system with all the software I install/use, but only use occasionally. I.e, I should be able to switch systems quickly as I work. 3.1. Install and work with different operating systems such as Linux/Ubanutu, Vista et al. 3.2. Test software I've written under different configurations and operating system versions. 3rd Question: Performance? What kind of performance hit should I expect during general usage when I am using a virtual machine? Will I have a "native installation" which I can fall back to (i.e. not virtual) for my performance-sensitive stuff (such as software development, video production, photo work). Thank you in advance for the suggestions. ssclaire