Do you believe in God? [modified]
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Harvey Saayman wrote:
I've only been exposed to "the real world" for the last two years... and i was shocked to find out how many atheists there are around me, it actually makes me sick...
Sick? Sick?! You have GOT to be kidding! :wtf:
Harvey Saayman wrote:
even some of my friends "believe in themselves", if u ask me they believe in "science", which alot of it is a f***ing religion in itself(the big bang and the big squish and the big spin and all that)!
Science doesn't even come close to being a religion. Religion demands trusting devotion, science basically says, "Don't believe us? Well, you can find out for yourself!"
Harvey Saayman wrote:
Half the crap they teach in school level science is given as fact, but it cant be proven in front of you like gravity and electricity can be proven and shown... Things like the age of the earth...
Uhhh, don't give me that crap. There's more than one way to prove something, you know, other than just dropping a banana and saying, "See? Gravity." How, for example, would you prove that Caligula was a Roman emperor?
Harvey Saayman wrote:
IMO science is the religion of atheists, people to blind to see whats right in front of their faces! We didnt just happen, there has to be a creator behind it all...
That's not an argument, just a sappy platitude.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
How, for example, would you prove that Caligula was a Roman emperor?
History is not that kind of science. You have to believe in it.
In January you said "money in April" B. Python
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Simple answer: "Nope, why should I? I rather believe in myself!" What about you, do you believe in God?
modified on Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:29 AM
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Simple answer: "Nope, why should I? I rather believe in myself!" What about you, do you believe in God?
modified on Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:29 AM
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Harvey Saayman wrote:
Neither can be proven but there are people who believe in God, and others who believe in the big bang. therefore BOTH ARE RELIGIONS!
No... The Big Bang theory is credible because we can measure the velocity of pretty much everything in the visible Universe, and it is all moving away from us. The only way that this is possible is if earlier in time everything was closer together. Set t=0, and you have everything originating from a single point. It is, yes, a theory, not a religion.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
you have everything originating from a single point
Yes. God had to build it somewhere. And I'm sure it made a big ruckus, too.
My Blog: http://cynicalclots.blogspot.com
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Simple answer: "Nope, why should I? I rather believe in myself!" What about you, do you believe in God?
modified on Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:29 AM
I believe that I exist (myself) because that is the only thing i can be sure of.
Proud to be a CPHog user
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
This is a stupid fucking question.
Sorry, it may not be interesting to you but others may have interest in it. But I promise you, if a few more like you show up, I'll shut it!
Cyon111 wrote:
But I promise you, if a few more like you show up, I'll shut it!
I'm nothing at all like John. I'm older, meaner, and shoot different guns. Now shut your fucking mouth and get out of Dodge, asshole.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Simple answer: "Nope, why should I? I rather believe in myself!" What about you, do you believe in God?
modified on Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:29 AM
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
yes, and why shouldn't I?
OK, in order not to mix things up again. By believe, you say that there is a God, right? That God does exist. But do you worship that God?
Cyon111 wrote:
you say that there is a God, right?
yes.
Cyon111 wrote:
That God does exist.
redundant, but yes.
Cyon111 wrote:
But do you worship that God?
I don't understand the use of the word, "But" here - buy, yes.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Science doesn't even come close to being a religion. Religion demands trusting devotion, science basically says, "Don't believe us? Well, you can find out for yourself!"
Science says that at some point in time, all the matter in the universe came together in a small "dot", spun faster and faster and galexys or what ever you want to call it "broke of" and thats where everything comes from. My religion says God created the heaven and the earth. Neither can be proven but there are people who believe in God, and others who believe in the big bang. therefore BOTH ARE RELIGIONS!
Harvey Saayman - South Africa Junior Developer .Net, C#, SQL
you.suck = (you.Passion != Programming & you.Occupation == jobTitles.Programmer)1000100 1101111 1100101 1110011 100000 1110100 1101000 1101001 1110011 100000 1101101 1100101 1100001 1101110 100000 1101001 1101101 100000 1100001 100000 1100111 1100101 1100101 1101011 111111Harvey Saayman wrote:
Neither can be proven but there are people who believe in God, and others who believe in the big bang. therefore BOTH ARE RELIGIONS!
I'm guessing the standards for being a junior birdman in South Africa don't require any training in logic.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Science doesn't even come close to being a religion.
Of course not. To my opinion science is a procedure of gathering information of the physical world. Religion in the other hand could base on science but is actually knowledge about life. That's why religion could be scientific, because it is actually knowledge.
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I believe it's about time to pay some bills. Does that make writing checks a religion too? I hope for your sake that you know more about your religion than you do of science.
Harvey Saayman wrote:
all the matter in the universe came together in a small "dot", spun faster and faster and galexys or what ever you want to call it "broke of" and thats where everything comes from.
There's virtually nothing in that string of gibberish that's correct. The Big Bang is the 'generally accepted' theory of the origin of the universe specifically because we haven't found a better explaination, and have never claimed that that's the definative story. Besides knowing virtually nothing about the theory, you're also ignoring the fact that the Big Bang would be a reasonable result from the Creator saying "let there be light." Maybe it would be wise for you to educate yourself on both topics before ridiculing one and claiming the other is ultimate truth. Maybe you should consider the possibility that they aren't mutually exclusive. But whatever you do, get a dictionary and look up the word 'religion' before posting something so asinine as to make you look like a complete idiot. Oh yeah, and to answer the original question, yes.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
Oh yeah, and to answer the original question, yes.
What you or I believe ultimately doesn't affect whether or not God exists. But what you believe and are willing to say, over and over again, about Religion is impressive and proof positive that it is possible to be a Christian without sacrificing a quetioning spirit.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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I believe you are "Teh." Added: From the quickness of the 1-vote, I can only assume that my belief has been validated.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
modified on Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:16 PM
LOL, if it spells like a "Teh", and posts crap like a "Teh", and votes like a "teh" it must be a "Teh"
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Cyon111 wrote:
But I promise you, if a few more like you show up, I'll shut it!
I'm nothing at all like John. I'm older, meaner, and shoot different guns. Now shut your fucking mouth and get out of Dodge, asshole.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Now shut your f***ing mouth and get out of Dodge, a**hole.
I second that. Now to the actual question of if I do believe in God? Sure I do, and I don't give a damn what others think of that ;P
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Stan Shannon wrote:
The uncertainty principle refutes that. The universe is ultimately unknowable.
The uncertainty principle states that measuring the position of a particle changes the momentum, and vice-versa. So I suppose, yes, the Universe is ultimately unknowable. That doesn't really disprove my point, though, unless he has some vehement objection to my (or someone else's) measurement of a particle.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You wouldn't.
You would look at the evidence that he existed - documents, sculptures, etc. You would piece it together and form a reasonably certain conclusion that he existed at some point.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Religion is as religion does. There is an entire movement in modern society to use science for precisely the same purposes religion is used - a belief system, a system of maintaining social stability. If you wish to keep science prestine, you need religion.
Look, I dunno. It doesn't make sense to me - how, for example, could one find moral guidance from metallurgy? Divine wisdom in zoology?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
The uncertainty principle states that measuring the position of a particle changes the momentum, and vice-versa. So I suppose, yes, the Universe is ultimately unknowable. That doesn't really disprove my point, though, unless he has some vehement objection to my (or someone else's) measurement of a particle.
The implication goes much deeper, however. What it really says is that the mere act of observing changes the very nature of what is observed. The only really important question has nothing to do with evolution or the big bang or any thing else that can be observed - it is why should there be an observer at all. Every question leads to the same inevitable point: the observer observing the observer.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
reasonably certain
Reasonable certainty is not proof.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
It doesn't make sense to me - how, for example, could one find moral guidance from metallurgy? Divine wisdom in zoology?
You need to ask these[^] guys.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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BoneSoft wrote:
Oh yeah, and to answer the original question, yes.
What you or I believe ultimately doesn't affect whether or not God exists. But what you believe and are willing to say, over and over again, about Religion is impressive and proof positive that it is possible to be a Christian without sacrificing a quetioning spirit.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
What you or I believe ultimately doesn't affect whether or not God exists
Exactly. The Bible even says that one's disbelief in God doesn't nullify His existence.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Cyon111 wrote:
you say that there is a God, right?
yes.
Cyon111 wrote:
That God does exist.
redundant, but yes.
Cyon111 wrote:
But do you worship that God?
I don't understand the use of the word, "But" here - buy, yes.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
I once was approached by Mormons and they tried to convince me to believe/worship their God and actually I tried, but I couldn't. My inner voice always told me again and again: "You are a Mecrinomian, you live in freedom, mental independence. Don't give it up!". And so, I dropped the Mormons and never tried again to worship a God! And I'm happy with it. But when I look at those massive crowds of people in all countries who bow, prostrate before their God, it somehow pains me and tells me: "Those people can only be wrong!". But hey, who am I to tell you not to worship a God? I'm not your mother, just someone who can not imagine to worship a God. So tell me, how does it feel to worship a God? You are not getting sick of going every Sunday to church? For sure, I would get sick! X|
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BoneSoft wrote:
Oh yeah, and to answer the original question, yes.
What you or I believe ultimately doesn't affect whether or not God exists. But what you believe and are willing to say, over and over again, about Religion is impressive and proof positive that it is possible to be a Christian without sacrificing a quetioning spirit.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
I can't deny what science demonstrates, and am in fact extremely interested in what it discovers. And I only have minor doubts about some theories, and many scienteists feel the same way about some of those theories. But I have little doubt that, overall, it's grainy picture of reality is valid, if not yet refined. I also have faith that God exists and that his word is real and right. Given both of those, (faith in God and confidence in science), I'm forced to question instead, peoples ability to comprehend and understand God and science. And I think that's a more reasonable thing to question. And I feel like I'm in pretty good company, since Einstein, Darwin, Galileo, and plenty of other great contributors to science also believed in God. So I feel justified in scoffing at anybody who automatically discounts one on the basis of the other. It's just not healthy for growing a mind... And there's really no reason they can't, not only coexist, but comliment each other as well. But at the same time, I don't feel that either was intended to prove or disprove the other, and neither should be attempted. Anyway, that's my two yen.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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Harvey Saayman wrote:
I've only been exposed to "the real world" for the last two years... and i was shocked to find out how many atheists there are around me, it actually makes me sick...
Sick? Sick?! You have GOT to be kidding! :wtf:
Harvey Saayman wrote:
even some of my friends "believe in themselves", if u ask me they believe in "science", which alot of it is a f***ing religion in itself(the big bang and the big squish and the big spin and all that)!
Science doesn't even come close to being a religion. Religion demands trusting devotion, science basically says, "Don't believe us? Well, you can find out for yourself!"
Harvey Saayman wrote:
Half the crap they teach in school level science is given as fact, but it cant be proven in front of you like gravity and electricity can be proven and shown... Things like the age of the earth...
Uhhh, don't give me that crap. There's more than one way to prove something, you know, other than just dropping a banana and saying, "See? Gravity." How, for example, would you prove that Caligula was a Roman emperor?
Harvey Saayman wrote:
IMO science is the religion of atheists, people to blind to see whats right in front of their faces! We didnt just happen, there has to be a creator behind it all...
That's not an argument, just a sappy platitude.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
How, for example, would you prove that Caligula was a Roman emperor?
A very nice analogy. There's physical evidence due to the passage of time, but the indirect evidence is overwhelming. I'll have to remember that one.
Bar fomos edo pariyart gedeem, agreo eo dranem abal edyero eyrem kalm kareore
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I once was approached by Mormons and they tried to convince me to believe/worship their God and actually I tried, but I couldn't. My inner voice always told me again and again: "You are a Mecrinomian, you live in freedom, mental independence. Don't give it up!". And so, I dropped the Mormons and never tried again to worship a God! And I'm happy with it. But when I look at those massive crowds of people in all countries who bow, prostrate before their God, it somehow pains me and tells me: "Those people can only be wrong!". But hey, who am I to tell you not to worship a God? I'm not your mother, just someone who can not imagine to worship a God. So tell me, how does it feel to worship a God? You are not getting sick of going every Sunday to church? For sure, I would get sick! X|
Cyon111 wrote:
But when I look at those massive crowds of people in all countries who bow, prostrate before their God, it somehow pains me and tells me: "Those people can only be wrong!". But hey, who am I to tell you not to worship a God? I'm not your mother, just someone who can not imagine to worship a God. So tell me, how does it feel to worship a God? You are not getting sick of going every Sunday to church? For sure, I would get sick!
I don't get involved with massive crowds, can't help you on that one. Regarding how does it feel to worship? If feels great. I give thanks for the blessings in my life: I've a great family, don't live in a shit hole country, make a good living, etc. As an observation, it strike me as odd that having rejected the notion of God that you'd be asking these questions. As a non-believer it would seem that you should be happy with your choice and go on about the business of living.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.