30 day notice given - shape up or ship out
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I've been in the IT industry for 26 years. Over that time, I have had some really good managers and a few not so good. However, I was always able to adapt to the not so good ones and kept going. Now I am in a situation where my manager and I have never connected. The manager is by far the most unusual and the manangement style is what I call "fear management" - fear of losing your job on an almost daily basis. I was just told I have 30 days to make the recommended changes or I am out of a job. I have not been able to meet this manager's expectations and I feel it's time to look elsewhere. My concern is when I start interviewing, how do I handle the question that will always come up: Why are you wanting to leave your current employer? I have always been told to never bad mouth or say anything negative about youor current manager during the interview process, but I am really stuck on this one. Any advice?
You feel that you have achieved all you can in your current position, and now you're looking for new challenges. I hear that one in every interview, so it must be true.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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I've been in the IT industry for 26 years. Over that time, I have had some really good managers and a few not so good. However, I was always able to adapt to the not so good ones and kept going. Now I am in a situation where my manager and I have never connected. The manager is by far the most unusual and the manangement style is what I call "fear management" - fear of losing your job on an almost daily basis. I was just told I have 30 days to make the recommended changes or I am out of a job. I have not been able to meet this manager's expectations and I feel it's time to look elsewhere. My concern is when I start interviewing, how do I handle the question that will always come up: Why are you wanting to leave your current employer? I have always been told to never bad mouth or say anything negative about youor current manager during the interview process, but I am really stuck on this one. Any advice?
James Hendrix wrote:
I have always been told to never bad mouth or say anything negative about youor current manager during the interview process, but I am really stuck on this one. Any advice?
Yes it's very important not to bad mouth your previous employer. What you need to do is construct a plausible story for both your current employer (because they will get a phone call for a recommendation) and that doesn't make you sound like a fly flitting from job to job. People want to know you'd stay so it has to be something serious and important enough to switch jobs but not too detailed and not obviously false on the face of it. You may even want to take the time to build up this story by thinking of a good one, something that you want but your current employer definitely can't match, bring it up with them first so the ground is laid then proceed from there. It's a tough and tricky situation. If it were me I'd go over that managers head if possible to personnel and explain why I was unhappy with his style and thinking of leaving and asking if there are any options before I do that.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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I've been in the IT industry for 26 years. Over that time, I have had some really good managers and a few not so good. However, I was always able to adapt to the not so good ones and kept going. Now I am in a situation where my manager and I have never connected. The manager is by far the most unusual and the manangement style is what I call "fear management" - fear of losing your job on an almost daily basis. I was just told I have 30 days to make the recommended changes or I am out of a job. I have not been able to meet this manager's expectations and I feel it's time to look elsewhere. My concern is when I start interviewing, how do I handle the question that will always come up: Why are you wanting to leave your current employer? I have always been told to never bad mouth or say anything negative about youor current manager during the interview process, but I am really stuck on this one. Any advice?
The office is relocating and the commute will be to much for you to deal with? Simply say that you are not terribly unhappy at your current position but you are just exploring the market to see what else is available. ***Edit. Also in this economy you can simply say that there are rumors about financial trouble and possible layoffs and that you are being proactive.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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I've been in the IT industry for 26 years. Over that time, I have had some really good managers and a few not so good. However, I was always able to adapt to the not so good ones and kept going. Now I am in a situation where my manager and I have never connected. The manager is by far the most unusual and the manangement style is what I call "fear management" - fear of losing your job on an almost daily basis. I was just told I have 30 days to make the recommended changes or I am out of a job. I have not been able to meet this manager's expectations and I feel it's time to look elsewhere. My concern is when I start interviewing, how do I handle the question that will always come up: Why are you wanting to leave your current employer? I have always been told to never bad mouth or say anything negative about youor current manager during the interview process, but I am really stuck on this one. Any advice?
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I've been in the IT industry for 26 years. Over that time, I have had some really good managers and a few not so good. However, I was always able to adapt to the not so good ones and kept going. Now I am in a situation where my manager and I have never connected. The manager is by far the most unusual and the manangement style is what I call "fear management" - fear of losing your job on an almost daily basis. I was just told I have 30 days to make the recommended changes or I am out of a job. I have not been able to meet this manager's expectations and I feel it's time to look elsewhere. My concern is when I start interviewing, how do I handle the question that will always come up: Why are you wanting to leave your current employer? I have always been told to never bad mouth or say anything negative about youor current manager during the interview process, but I am really stuck on this one. Any advice?
I don't have much to offer in the way of excuses for leaving, other than to recommend that you do in fact, leave as soon as possible. I've suffered a manager like that before and I ended up in the doctors with chronic stress. After examining me, the doctor just looked me straight in the eye and said "You need a complete lifestyle change". And I knew right at that moment that I had to get the hell out of that job as soon as possible. When you show up for work and fear that every day might be your last - well, you just can't live like that. I was told on several occasions that "If you can't do it, then I'll just hire someone in China that can do it, and it'll cost me a tenth of what I'm paying you". Bear in mind that this was usually after the goalposts had moved for the 6th time in a week... I wish you luck, and I hope you can find something more relaxing and worthwhile.
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | The Windows Cheerleader
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I've been in the IT industry for 26 years. Over that time, I have had some really good managers and a few not so good. However, I was always able to adapt to the not so good ones and kept going. Now I am in a situation where my manager and I have never connected. The manager is by far the most unusual and the manangement style is what I call "fear management" - fear of losing your job on an almost daily basis. I was just told I have 30 days to make the recommended changes or I am out of a job. I have not been able to meet this manager's expectations and I feel it's time to look elsewhere. My concern is when I start interviewing, how do I handle the question that will always come up: Why are you wanting to leave your current employer? I have always been told to never bad mouth or say anything negative about youor current manager during the interview process, but I am really stuck on this one. Any advice?
Be glad you got thirty days and say "personal reasons."
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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I've been in the IT industry for 26 years. Over that time, I have had some really good managers and a few not so good. However, I was always able to adapt to the not so good ones and kept going. Now I am in a situation where my manager and I have never connected. The manager is by far the most unusual and the manangement style is what I call "fear management" - fear of losing your job on an almost daily basis. I was just told I have 30 days to make the recommended changes or I am out of a job. I have not been able to meet this manager's expectations and I feel it's time to look elsewhere. My concern is when I start interviewing, how do I handle the question that will always come up: Why are you wanting to leave your current employer? I have always been told to never bad mouth or say anything negative about youor current manager during the interview process, but I am really stuck on this one. Any advice?
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Return the favor. Go to his boss and say that your manager's incompetent management style is getting to you. Tell the big boss the manager has 30 days to shape up, or he'll have to pick which of you stays.
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I've been in the IT industry for 26 years. Over that time, I have had some really good managers and a few not so good. However, I was always able to adapt to the not so good ones and kept going. Now I am in a situation where my manager and I have never connected. The manager is by far the most unusual and the manangement style is what I call "fear management" - fear of losing your job on an almost daily basis. I was just told I have 30 days to make the recommended changes or I am out of a job. I have not been able to meet this manager's expectations and I feel it's time to look elsewhere. My concern is when I start interviewing, how do I handle the question that will always come up: Why are you wanting to leave your current employer? I have always been told to never bad mouth or say anything negative about youor current manager during the interview process, but I am really stuck on this one. Any advice?
How long have you worked for this company ? If this has not been a long term employment how about your previous 2 or 3 positions ? If you can show a few multi-year positions, they'll most likely not going to go too deep into why you are leaving. Telling them you are looking for something new, might not be the greatest thing if the projects they are working on are not very exciting. If that seems to be the case, tell them you could not connect with your manager and you do not feel happy with his style of management. If you can show a few instances of long term employment, they'll most likely decide it is your manager's fault. However, if you have a number of year or less then year positions on your resume they might decide you are just not very good employee. So be careful.
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Return the favor. Go to his boss and say that your manager's incompetent management style is getting to you. Tell the big boss the manager has 30 days to shape up, or he'll have to pick which of you stays.
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You feel that you have achieved all you can in your current position, and now you're looking for new challenges. I hear that one in every interview, so it must be true.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
You feel that you have achieved all you can in your current position, and now you're looking for new challenges.
There's nothing wrong with saying that, either. If someone tells me that, I would likely get the notion that they may have skills that would be beneficial for my organization. However, looking for new challenges is kind of an eye of the beholder thing. One person's new challenge may or may not be a challenge to me, so mileage may vary.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Return the favor. Go to his boss and say that your manager's incompetent management style is getting to you. Tell the big boss the manager has 30 days to shape up, or he'll have to pick which of you stays.
A Wong wrote:
Tell the big boss the manager has 30 days to shape up, or he'll have to pick which of you stays.
Excellent idea, I like that one.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Sounds pretty risky considering that it was probably the guy he'd be going who hired his manager to begin with. == As a side note, James, looks like the home page of your site is missing a link to your stylesheet...
J$ wrote:
Sounds pretty risky
It could be, but then again, it would put the ball into the other guy's court to shape up in a constructive manner.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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I've been in the IT industry for 26 years. Over that time, I have had some really good managers and a few not so good. However, I was always able to adapt to the not so good ones and kept going. Now I am in a situation where my manager and I have never connected. The manager is by far the most unusual and the manangement style is what I call "fear management" - fear of losing your job on an almost daily basis. I was just told I have 30 days to make the recommended changes or I am out of a job. I have not been able to meet this manager's expectations and I feel it's time to look elsewhere. My concern is when I start interviewing, how do I handle the question that will always come up: Why are you wanting to leave your current employer? I have always been told to never bad mouth or say anything negative about youor current manager during the interview process, but I am really stuck on this one. Any advice?
You don't have to make up a story! You can be absolutely truthful without badmouthing your current boss. Simply describe the differences you and he are having in clinical, dispassionate terms. Say that you truly feel you are better suited where the expectations are different.
“Cannot find REALITY.SYS...Universe Halted.” ~ God on phone with Microsoft Customer Support
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
You feel that you have achieved all you can in your current position, and now you're looking for new challenges.
There's nothing wrong with saying that, either. If someone tells me that, I would likely get the notion that they may have skills that would be beneficial for my organization. However, looking for new challenges is kind of an eye of the beholder thing. One person's new challenge may or may not be a challenge to me, so mileage may vary.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
True. Just once though, I'd like somebody to say something new. Oh for an interviewee to say "Well, it's this or I'm off to join the ladyboys of Bangkok doing their tribute to Riverdance." Of course, I wouldn't hire them because I wouldn't want to deprive the world of the "entertainment" value; especially if I never have to see it.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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True. Just once though, I'd like somebody to say something new. Oh for an interviewee to say "Well, it's this or I'm off to join the ladyboys of Bangkok doing their tribute to Riverdance." Of course, I wouldn't hire them because I wouldn't want to deprive the world of the "entertainment" value; especially if I never have to see it.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
the ladyboys of Bangkok doing their tribute to Riverdance.
That, I don't really want to know.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
wouldn't hire them because I wouldn't want to deprive the world of the "entertainment" value
Heck no. If there is any need for in office entertainment, there are better alternatives :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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I've been in the IT industry for 26 years. Over that time, I have had some really good managers and a few not so good. However, I was always able to adapt to the not so good ones and kept going. Now I am in a situation where my manager and I have never connected. The manager is by far the most unusual and the manangement style is what I call "fear management" - fear of losing your job on an almost daily basis. I was just told I have 30 days to make the recommended changes or I am out of a job. I have not been able to meet this manager's expectations and I feel it's time to look elsewhere. My concern is when I start interviewing, how do I handle the question that will always come up: Why are you wanting to leave your current employer? I have always been told to never bad mouth or say anything negative about youor current manager during the interview process, but I am really stuck on this one. Any advice?
Simple - say something that reflects well on you. Like, I have been in the one place for a long time and it's not challenging me anymore. Or, I want a chance to learn new skills. Whatever you say, it should tell the person asking that you're a great guy to have on board. Do NOT say your manager sucks, in ANY way. They will soon be your manager, you hope. What is he asking you to change that you feel you can't ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
the ladyboys of Bangkok doing their tribute to Riverdance.
That, I don't really want to know.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
wouldn't hire them because I wouldn't want to deprive the world of the "entertainment" value
Heck no. If there is any need for in office entertainment, there are better alternatives :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
Paul Conrad wrote:
If there is any need for in office entertainment, there are better alternatives
I didn't say they had to give you an in-chair massage, or even engage in a bit of etc.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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Paul Conrad wrote:
If there is any need for in office entertainment, there are better alternatives
I didn't say they had to give you an in-chair massage, or even engage in a bit of etc.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
Whew! :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Sounds pretty risky considering that it was probably the guy he'd be going who hired his manager to begin with. == As a side note, James, looks like the home page of your site is missing a link to your stylesheet...
He's dead in the water anyway - you cannot work constructively under those coditions. At this point he would have nothing to lose and may do the company some benifit. Getting the next job will of course be difficult as very few managers would accept that potential.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
