USA: “Obsession” Anti-Islam Film Angers Bloggers
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There is only one wrong here: false report of a "hate crime". The rest is a freedom of speech issue - please note that you are not required to agree with the speech, but you are not entitled to prohibit it.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Two wrongs don't make a right,
So there were these two asian guys named Wong and a girl named Sally Wright. . .
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
it just propagates one
I didn't know you were into horticulture. In other words, when the fuck did Muslims adopt the idea of turning the other cheek? No, not those cheeks!
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
So there were these two asian guys named Wong and a girl named Sally Wright. . .
Go on, I'm listening.
Oakman wrote:
I didn't know you were into horticulture.
I meant right in the sense of right to do something.
Oakman wrote:
In other words, when the f*** did Muslims adopt the idea of turning the other cheek?
Never said they did. Again, are we talking about all of them now? Cause it seems to me that those who aren't up in arms against others are actually turning a cheek.
Oakman wrote:
No, not those cheeks!
Those cheeks. Where's the slap icon? Good movie.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Go on, I'm listening.
If you don't recognize the classic pun, then you don't really speak the language.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
meant right in the sense of right to do something
And I was talking about propagation. A fun something to do, right?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Again, are we talking about all of them now?
Nope, just all of them except Omar Sharif.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
So there were these two asian guys named Wong and a girl named Sally Wright. . .
Sorry, I don't share girls :laugh:
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The problem is not freedom of speech, it's a lack of freedom of speech. In most Muslim theocracies there is no freedom of speech so Muslims can't decry the radical elements of their theology because they don't have the freedom to do so. As a result, there is no restraining force on the radical elements and they are allowed to do as they please.
“It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.”
Funny. Coming to work today I saw a bumper sticker that said freedom isn't free. Freedom of anything is an illusion. You're free to do and say whatever you want unless it pisses off those in a higher position than you or enough people. People actually want conformity. That's why I empty my bladder before going to work.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Go on, I'm listening.
If you don't recognize the classic pun, then you don't really speak the language.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
meant right in the sense of right to do something
And I was talking about propagation. A fun something to do, right?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Again, are we talking about all of them now?
Nope, just all of them except Omar Sharif.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
If you don't recognize the classic pun, then you don't really speak the language.
I do. I just wanted to hear the climax. Do I need to explain my puns?
Oakman wrote:
Nope, just all of them except Omar Sharif.
In other words, he who bends to your will. Cat Stevens would disagree.
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Oakman wrote:
So there were these two asian guys named Wong and a girl named Sally Wright. . .
Sorry, I don't share girls :laugh:
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I'm also saying that the US usually forbids this
Horse-puckey. Unless the CD directly and deliberately urges violence to be done against Muslims, any attempt to interfere with the CD's distribution would have been slapped down by the judicial system immediately.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
If you don't recognize the classic pun, then you don't really speak the language.
I do. I just wanted to hear the climax. Do I need to explain my puns?
Oakman wrote:
Nope, just all of them except Omar Sharif.
In other words, he who bends to your will. Cat Stevens would disagree.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I'm also saying that the US usually forbids this
Horse-puckey. Unless the CD directly and deliberately urges violence to be done against Muslims, any attempt to interfere with the CD's distribution would have been slapped down by the judicial system immediately.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Can't think of many examples right now, but I've seen it. A few years ago, a caricature in a newspaper website showed illegal immigrants getting citizenship and putting on soldier getups to go and fight in Iraq. The company that showed them was "asked" to take them down. It did so within a few hours. It happens ... in every country of the world.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
In other words, he who bends to your will.
Sheeeyit, Man. Omar don' bend to my will - or my won't either. You just don't like him 'cause he uses toilet paper.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Funny. Coming to work today I saw a bumper sticker that said freedom isn't free. Freedom of anything is an illusion. You're free to do and say whatever you want unless it pisses off those in a higher position than you or enough people. People actually want conformity. That's why I empty my bladder before going to work.
You're right, freedom isn't free - it comes at great cost. True freedom from everything isn't an illusion, it's death. But that's rather impractical. Thus, as many rights as possible must be fought for and protected in order to guard "freedom". That's the ideology in the west and in the west, one of those rights is freedom of speech. It's no more than that and no less than that.
“It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.”
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
But you do boys?
No, you must have mistaken me for a Catholic Priest. Or maybe Adnan... :-D
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You're right, freedom isn't free - it comes at great cost. True freedom from everything isn't an illusion, it's death. But that's rather impractical. Thus, as many rights as possible must be fought for and protected in order to guard "freedom". That's the ideology in the west and in the west, one of those rights is freedom of speech. It's no more than that and no less than that.
“It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.”
And I don't disagree with that. But respect should get equal footing as well. Some people believe religion should be respected before freedom. Some believe freedom above all else. I say if you had respect, you would have both. But people seem to lose sight of love thy neighbor and all that. And I'm not talking about the US or any particular country. I'm saying people in general, except playboy bunnies of course.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I'm also saying that the US usually forbids this
Not at all. As long as the film did not directly urge violence against muslims or muslim property, it is permissible speech. And there is no substantive legal difference between paying a newspaper to distribute it as a paid advertisement, and selling it in a store. And to assert that this would have been stopped if it were anti-Christian is simply not true: there have been numerous anti-christian films made in recent years that received similar advertisement and were publicly displayed and sold in the US (mostly without any similar outcry from Christians).
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I'm also saying that the US usually forbids this
Not at all. As long as the film did not directly urge violence against muslims or muslim property, it is permissible speech. And there is no substantive legal difference between paying a newspaper to distribute it as a paid advertisement, and selling it in a store. And to assert that this would have been stopped if it were anti-Christian is simply not true: there have been numerous anti-christian films made in recent years that received similar advertisement and were publicly displayed and sold in the US (mostly without any similar outcry from Christians).
Only since it was Christians who made the movie about their religion, even if they don't have faith in it. However, if one religion bashes another and sends movies through newspapers for distribution, then something is definitely foul and the government should intervene. Like I said to Oakman, the government has stopped certain things when it wanted to. I've seen it happen a couple more times, but that was the only example I remember.
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Only since it was Christians who made the movie about their religion, even if they don't have faith in it. However, if one religion bashes another and sends movies through newspapers for distribution, then something is definitely foul and the government should intervene. Like I said to Oakman, the government has stopped certain things when it wanted to. I've seen it happen a couple more times, but that was the only example I remember.
You sir, are full of horse puckey. The reason you can't find an example of the government intervening is that there are none. The government is prohibited by the Constitution from taking sides in issues involving religion. And just because one religion takes offense at the statements of another is no reason to silence one or the other. It would appear that Muslims are so lacking in confidence in Islam that they cannot ignore fools who speak trash against it, nor present rational argument to counter those fools. Your very reaction lends credence to what is clearly a very slanted piece of propaganda. You serve your own cause very poorly, as by protesting and demanding they be silenced you lend credence to your enemies words.
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And I don't disagree with that. But respect should get equal footing as well. Some people believe religion should be respected before freedom. Some believe freedom above all else. I say if you had respect, you would have both. But people seem to lose sight of love thy neighbor and all that. And I'm not talking about the US or any particular country. I'm saying people in general, except playboy bunnies of course.
Respect is earned, not granted automatically. You are not helping earn that respect with your protest.
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And I don't disagree with that. But respect should get equal footing as well. Some people believe religion should be respected before freedom. Some believe freedom above all else. I say if you had respect, you would have both. But people seem to lose sight of love thy neighbor and all that. And I'm not talking about the US or any particular country. I'm saying people in general, except playboy bunnies of course.
I think the key difference is freedom of speech vs. freedom to act and/or freedom of expression. There is no reason not to criticise religion be it Christianity, Islam or anything else. That is the Western ideal. In certain social settings it may be polite to not comment, but in any other situation it is acceptable and is a right. You cannot remove that right, that is oppression. If I am only allowed to say positive things all the time, that is unproductive and ridiculous. It builds nothing but distrust and dishonesty. No progress will ever be made.
“It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.”