The World has gone mad...
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"It looks like you're trying to write a resume." :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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State Pattern, Strategy pattern,Visitor pattern, BizConnector, NTier, Adapter and fly weight The world has gone buzzword mad, with all this stuff floating around, isnt there any substitute for good old fashioned analysis and design?? I am over 30 so this might be a case of me being an old Fart.. but all the systems I have designed and written function quite well using the "Old" methods without any of this pattern junk.. Or are all of these buzzwords around so programmers have some buzzwords to baffle the managers with on their CV's?? Its all a waste of time imo, if you can design and code competantly, whats the point in all this pattern rubbish? Prehaps its time for me to retire from coding and move up to the levels of senior management... *stomps off and growls in the corner*
At the communication level the problem is not patterns per se, the problem is that people talk lots about them (for example in design meetings) just to seem clever. How many times have you heard a "clever" guy talking about how he is going to use this or that pattern when there is not even a well defined problem to solve. At the programming level the problems are two: 1-People overuse them because of the false belief that if you design with patterns you are a better architect. Not all programming problems are that complex and not all complex programming problems are better solved with patterns. 2-People misuse them because they want to design with patterns before they have learnt to design using plain OO. So, for example, you get systems whose architecture is based mostly on Singletons... Of course there are great programmers using them in great ways. I´m just enumerating the problems I´ve found with their usage.
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"It looks like you're trying to write a resume." :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Now you sound like Mr. Paperclip from MS Office :)
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At the communication level the problem is not patterns per se, the problem is that people talk lots about them (for example in design meetings) just to seem clever. How many times have you heard a "clever" guy talking about how he is going to use this or that pattern when there is not even a well defined problem to solve. At the programming level the problems are two: 1-People overuse them because of the false belief that if you design with patterns you are a better architect. Not all programming problems are that complex and not all complex programming problems are better solved with patterns. 2-People misuse them because they want to design with patterns before they have learnt to design using plain OO. So, for example, you get systems whose architecture is based mostly on Singletons... Of course there are great programmers using them in great ways. I´m just enumerating the problems I´ve found with their usage.
Exactly.. All these messages seem to prove to me is that All these new buzzwords are merely the old concepts wrapped up in a colourful wrapper. Trust me I have gone through all the old ones, been programming since I was 18.. I just wonder what the point is in wrapping them up in new buzzwords.
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GriffinPeter wrote:
isnt there any substitute for good old fashioned analysis and design?? I am over 30 so this might be a case of me being an old Fart.. but all the systems I have designed and written function quite well using the "Old" methods without any of this pattern junk..
Design Patterns are nothing new. I'm well over 30 and I've been using patterns where appropriate for over a decade now.
GriffinPeter wrote:
whats the point in all this pattern rubbish?
It's merely a descriptive language that is intended to help you communicate and document the choices you took to build a system. Think of it as a way of naming your tools....Everyone knows what a wrench is, but just calling it a wrench doesn't describe all of the details.
GriffinPeter wrote:
Prehaps its time for me to retire from coding and move up to the levels of senior management...
Or, catch up with the past. The first book on programming patterns was released in 1995. The real problem that I see with pattern use it that it's use is often bragged about by people who I wouldn't hire to do data entry work.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
Absolutely agree with what the vast majority of responders have said (re the GOF book being over 10 years old now - descriptive naming for common scenarios etc). But the point Chris makes is probably more attuned to the OP's post. The simple fact of the matter is that there are a ton of developers out there (I know I've hired - briefly - some of them) who love to talk the talk and can't walk the walk. And of course this isn't restricted to patterns. Good thread :)
The only thing unpredictable about me is just how predictable I'm going to be.
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GriffinPeter wrote:
analysis and design
Analysis and Design? Well I'll mention it to the troops, but I don't think they'll be happy.
Ahoy! Martin Hughes
priceless :)
The only thing unpredictable about me is just how predictable I'm going to be.
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Now you sound like Mr. Paperclip from MS Office :)
LOl they're not funny when you have to explain them :)
The only thing unpredictable about me is just how predictable I'm going to be.
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Exactly.. All these messages seem to prove to me is that All these new buzzwords are merely the old concepts wrapped up in a colourful wrapper. Trust me I have gone through all the old ones, been programming since I was 18.. I just wonder what the point is in wrapping them up in new buzzwords.
I suppose the point of using the 'new buzzwords' is to allow the programming community to share ideas using a common language without resorting to (programming) language specific terms, and to recognise the similarity of unrelated problems. I've noticed some real problems caused by design patterns: 1) the belief that if code doesn't fit one of the patterns exactly it must be bad code. 2) that the design patterns books describe how the pattern *must* be implemented. 3) my personal pet-hate is when a programmer calls a method "AcceptXyz" and a class an "XyzVisitor" when writing code that fits the Visitor pattern. I still think the method name should still describe what the method actually does, and not be named according to a pattern it fits. The best design pattern book I've read is called "Refactoring to Patterns". This book actually goes into a lot of detail of how to remove inappropriate use of patterns in code when refactoring as well as the other way round. Programming is an artform. Traditional artists may use the rule-of-thirds and golden ratios and colour wheels etc., but these just allow the artist to look at a subject and have a good feeling about what framing might look best etc. I've said too much! -oddTim
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State Pattern, Strategy pattern,Visitor pattern, BizConnector, NTier, Adapter and fly weight The world has gone buzzword mad, with all this stuff floating around, isnt there any substitute for good old fashioned analysis and design?? I am over 30 so this might be a case of me being an old Fart.. but all the systems I have designed and written function quite well using the "Old" methods without any of this pattern junk.. Or are all of these buzzwords around so programmers have some buzzwords to baffle the managers with on their CV's?? Its all a waste of time imo, if you can design and code competantly, whats the point in all this pattern rubbish? Prehaps its time for me to retire from coding and move up to the levels of senior management... *stomps off and growls in the corner*
I think some software big-wigs just want it to sound like they are doing something new and exciting. At least appear that way to their bosses. It usually seems to be a very minor change to the way things have been done in the past.
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I think some software big-wigs just want it to sound like they are doing something new and exciting. At least appear that way to their bosses. It usually seems to be a very minor change to the way things have been done in the past.
fortunately I have had plenty of experience in cutting out the b*ll when interviewing for developers and contractors to know when these terms are used to hide b*ll
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State Pattern, Strategy pattern,Visitor pattern, BizConnector, NTier, Adapter and fly weight The world has gone buzzword mad, with all this stuff floating around, isnt there any substitute for good old fashioned analysis and design?? I am over 30 so this might be a case of me being an old Fart.. but all the systems I have designed and written function quite well using the "Old" methods without any of this pattern junk.. Or are all of these buzzwords around so programmers have some buzzwords to baffle the managers with on their CV's?? Its all a waste of time imo, if you can design and code competantly, whats the point in all this pattern rubbish? Prehaps its time for me to retire from coding and move up to the levels of senior management... *stomps off and growls in the corner*
I'd bet quids that you use patterns every day. It was only when I connected today's vocabulary to my own actuality that I realised it's all been said & done before by the likes of Knuth, Djikstra and Hoare and others of that era. I seem to recall something called design templates back in the late 60's. My dad was a pattern maker at Rolls Royce during WW2. so I can blame him.