Joe the plumber and the American Dream
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What is the American dream? It is fundamentally a belief in the freedom that allows Americans to achieve their goals through hard work. It's hard to achieve that dream if you shackle the poor through proportional (or regressive) taxation. It is a denial of the American dream. So, what makes a loser like Joe the plumber who can never hope to make it into the 250,000+ tax bracket yearn for tax breaks for the rich ? And to quote the American dream as a support for his silly ideas ? The reptilian humanoids are deeply curious and plan to institute a probe at the next possible opportunity.
The American Dream is "that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, and too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position." ~ James Truslow Adams when he coined the phrase.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Rob Graham wrote:
In any case, the personal remark on your appearance was inappropriate and I apologize for it.
I'm truly curious. You felt his statement that you were getting fucked by a donkey was not inappropriate? :confused:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
You felt his statement that you were getting f***ed by a donkey was not inappropriate?
It was quite inappropriate. I don't expect apologies (or even civility) from a troll, but I don't care to be known to have the same standards of behavior. Also note that I said my remark was inappropriate, not inaccurate. He remains an ignorant troll who has no business commenting on things of which he clearly has no understanding.
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Oakman wrote:
You felt his statement that you were getting f***ed by a donkey was not inappropriate?
It was quite inappropriate. I don't expect apologies (or even civility) from a troll, but I don't care to be known to have the same standards of behavior. Also note that I said my remark was inappropriate, not inaccurate. He remains an ignorant troll who has no business commenting on things of which he clearly has no understanding.
Rob Graham wrote:
It was quite inappropriate. I don't expect apologies (or even civility) from a troll, but I don't care to be known to have the same standards of behavior.
Good answer. I guess I am more of an eye for an eye kind of guy. When I read his insult to you, steam came out of my ears. I should think about what you said the next time I start getting carried away.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Rob Graham wrote:
It was quite inappropriate. I don't expect apologies (or even civility) from a troll, but I don't care to be known to have the same standards of behavior.
Good answer. I guess I am more of an eye for an eye kind of guy. When I read his insult to you, steam came out of my ears. I should think about what you said the next time I start getting carried away.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
I fly off the handle from time to time myself.
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Rob Graham wrote:
It was quite inappropriate. I don't expect apologies (or even civility) from a troll, but I don't care to be known to have the same standards of behavior.
Good answer. I guess I am more of an eye for an eye kind of guy. When I read his insult to you, steam came out of my ears. I should think about what you said the next time I start getting carried away.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Good answer. I guess I am more of an eye for an eye kind of guy. When I read his insult to you, steam came out of my ears. I should think about what you said the next time I start getting carried away.
I would like to nominate both you guys for the next Nobel prize for peace :-D
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Rob Graham wrote:
It was quite inappropriate. I don't expect apologies (or even civility) from a troll, but I don't care to be known to have the same standards of behavior.
Good answer. I guess I am more of an eye for an eye kind of guy. When I read his insult to you, steam came out of my ears. I should think about what you said the next time I start getting carried away.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
When I read his insult to you, steam came out of my ears
I just simply added it to my D.M. script :rolleyes:
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Oakman wrote:
When I read his insult to you, steam came out of my ears
I just simply added it to my D.M. script :rolleyes:
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Paul Conrad wrote:
I just simply added it to my D.M. script
You're smart, Paul. Maybe too smart. You want me brudder Vito to come have a talk witchoose?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Maybe too smart.
Naaaaaaw :-\ I've scored a 170+ on those IQ tests on the 'net after several brewskies :rolleyes:
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Oakman wrote:
Something tells me that the way you define "honestly" ends up being "those who have achieved the American Dream."
No, it means those who made good decisions in life rather than bad decisions and then blamed those bad decisions on others rather than taking responsibility for them and moving on.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Oakman wrote:
Maybe too smart.
Naaaaaaw :-\ I've scored a 170+ on those IQ tests on the 'net after several brewskies :rolleyes:
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Oakman wrote:
Something tells me that the way you define "honestly" ends up being "those who have achieved the American Dream."
No, it means those who made good decisions in life rather than bad decisions and then blamed those bad decisions on others rather than taking responsibility for them and moving on.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
And you KNOW they made good or bad decisions, b/c they are rich, or poor, right ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "Iam doing the browsing center project in vb.net using c# coding" - this is why I don't answer questions much anymore. Oh, and Microsoft doesn't want me to.
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The American Dream is "that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, and too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position." ~ James Truslow Adams when he coined the phrase.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
And that's plainly not an accurate description of the USA today. The only real difference I can see is that the US upper classes got there differently to the ones in Europe. It's still the case that a class exists in the USA with a lifestyle that the majority of people in the US could not hope to come close to, no matter what they do.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "Iam doing the browsing center project in vb.net using c# coding" - this is why I don't answer questions much anymore. Oh, and Microsoft doesn't want me to.
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And you KNOW they made good or bad decisions, b/c they are rich, or poor, right ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "Iam doing the browsing center project in vb.net using c# coding" - this is why I don't answer questions much anymore. Oh, and Microsoft doesn't want me to.
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And that's plainly not an accurate description of the USA today. The only real difference I can see is that the US upper classes got there differently to the ones in Europe. It's still the case that a class exists in the USA with a lifestyle that the majority of people in the US could not hope to come close to, no matter what they do.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "Iam doing the browsing center project in vb.net using c# coding" - this is why I don't answer questions much anymore. Oh, and Microsoft doesn't want me to.
Christian Graus wrote:
It's still the case that a class exists in the USA with a lifestyle that the majority of people in the US could not hope to come close to, no matter what they do.
I'm not sure that the American Dream requires that a majority of its citizens reach the level of Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, or even 'just' the level of having a 20 million dollar golden parachute. What that definition does insist on is that everyone should be able to achieve all that they can achieve. (I'm pretty sure that if I had every starting advantage Warren Buffet had, twice over, my investment company would be somewhat less well capitalized that Berkshire Hathaway.) I think it's pretty clear that even that level of opportunity is no longer available in the U.S. Outsourcing jobs, downsizing American corporations, and building factories in slave countries has slammed the door in the face of bright, hardworking people.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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You really should look before you post a remark that makes you seem really dumb. Oakman's picture is in his bio. Mine on the other hand is not, and I prefer my privacy for reasons that have nothing to do with cowardice. In any case, the personal remark on your appearance was inappropriate and I apologize for it.:rose:
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Rob Graham wrote:
In any case, the personal remark on your appearance was inappropriate and I apologize for it. :rose:
Mere symptom. Therefore, it will happen again. Work on the underlying disease.
:zzz:
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Christian Graus wrote:
And you KNOW they made good or bad decisions, b/c they are rich, or poor, right ?
Absolutely. Good = rich; evil = poor.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Luck has nothing to do with deciding to take drugs or have children outside of wedlock.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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And you KNOW they made good or bad decisions, b/c they are rich, or poor, right ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "Iam doing the browsing center project in vb.net using c# coding" - this is why I don't answer questions much anymore. Oh, and Microsoft doesn't want me to.
Christian Graus wrote:
And you KNOW they made good or bad decisions, b/c they are rich, or poor, right ?
No. I know they made bad decisions because I am referring specifically to people with whom I am personally acquainted. People who, given opportunity afer opportunity to succeed with the most minimal amount of effort, went right back to making the worse possible choices imaginable.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Christian Graus wrote:
And you KNOW they made good or bad decisions, b/c they are rich, or poor, right ?
Absolutely. Good = rich; evil = poor.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Good = rich; evil = poor.
Bull shit.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.