Something good to see
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
I'm not claiming anything, I was only addressing what I perceived as Oily claiming that Republicans don't normally stand against bigotry...like he was shocked to see it.
His initial post was titled: "Something good to see". The text simply said: "Republicans opposing bigotry." He said nothing at all about Republicans not normally standing against bigotry. The video showed a guy outside a Republican rally promoting an anti-Muslim, anti-Obama message. He was then confronted by a group of Republicans (including a local official) who argued that Muslims could be loyal Americans. Out-numbered and out-argued, he packed up and left. Any person of reasonably generous spirit, reading the post and watching the video would have thought that oilFactotum was seeking to give credit where credit was due, celebrating goodness where he found it. You immediately jumped on him for promoting a partisan agenda, when in fact he was doing the opposite. Sure enough, when pushed about whether he believes that there is a bigotry problem among some Republicans, he agreed that he thought there was. No surprise that he thinks that. That, however, does not justify your response. oilFactotum has negative views about Republicans but went out of his way to give credit when he found them doing good. You, by contrast, have negative views of oilFactotum and went out of your way to attack him when you found him doing good. You stayed in partisan mode precisely when he was trying to step outside it.
John Carson
You are probably right, but he also had ample oppurtunity to correct any misconceptions I had as to his intentions. He didn't take it.
John Carson wrote:
Sure enough, when pushed about whether he believes that there is a bigotry problem among some Republicans, he agreed that he thought there was. No surprise that he thinks that.
Is there any surprise that he doesn't seem to think that the same problem exists in the Democrat party? Do you think it exists in the Democrat Party?
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read
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BoneSoft wrote:
But come on, we've been to third world countries
I don't think it's acceptable that any Americans live like third worlders simply because they are too old or too sick to fend for themselves. It may be too late to reverse the trend that has the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, but I regret that it is happening.
BoneSoft wrote:
The point is most people don't have near as much to bitch about as they do bitch about, and playing to that helps politicians.
You are unfortunately correct - Bread and Circuses are the natural result on the slide from a republic to a democracy to an oligarchy and more and more I think thats where we are going.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
don't think it's acceptable that any Americans live like third worlders simply because they are too old or too sick to fend for themselves
I don't either. Those who truely need help need to get it. In our current state though, most who are getting it don't really need it. In fact, those who don't really need it are being hurt by getting it.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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OK, apology recended.
oilFactotum wrote:
there was no question at all
Right, it was a statement that you obviously meant to elicit a response, that was a trap. Kinda like a loaded question. :rolleyes: So again, what response were you expecting and what do you imagine it would reveal? Or was it that you mistakenly thought that no response would automatically validate your point? Nevermind, I'm tired of your game.
oilFactotum wrote:
You're wrong again. A response of 'The other guy does it too!' does indeed concede the original point.
Concession doesn't make your point automatically valid, it just means he himself can't refute it. Now I see how you've tricked yourself into thinking your never wrong. Lead them in circles until they throw up their hands, then you must be right since you 'won'.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
you obviously meant to elicit a response
Of course it was - to address the point at hand.
BoneSoft wrote:
that was a trap. Kinda like a loaded question
Nothing loaded about it.
BoneSoft wrote:
what do you imagine it would reveal?
What he thought about the point at hand.
BoneSoft wrote:
Nevermind, I'm tired of your game.
I'm not playing a game. But you sure have a doozy of one running around inside that head of yours.
BoneSoft wrote:
Concession doesn't make your point automatically valid,
Never said it did. I don't need him to tell me there is a problem in the GOP. I already know that and Colin Powell simply said it out loud.
BoneSoft wrote:
Now I see how you've tricked yourself into thinking your never wrong.
No. That is your belief, not mine.
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The party is not bigoted, because he won the nomination... That logically does not follow. How can you argue otherwise? 49% of the party could be bigoted, 100% of the party could be bigoted toward something other than what the candidate is, or any combination or varying degrees of the two. "Because he won the nomination" is not enough information to deduce that "the party is not bigoted". So... That logically does not follow.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
Could be, might be... blah, blah, blah. Have you actually got something to say about it? Do you wish to dispute what Colin Powell said? Do you want to try to argue that both parties suffer equally from the affliction?
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You are probably right, but he also had ample oppurtunity to correct any misconceptions I had as to his intentions. He didn't take it.
John Carson wrote:
Sure enough, when pushed about whether he believes that there is a bigotry problem among some Republicans, he agreed that he thought there was. No surprise that he thinks that.
Is there any surprise that he doesn't seem to think that the same problem exists in the Democrat party? Do you think it exists in the Democrat Party?
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
Is there any surprise that he doesn't seem to think that the same problem exists in the Democrat party? Do you think it exists in the Democrat Party?
I'm sure there are bigots of various types in both parties. However, the Obama-is-a-Muslim-and-therefore-we-should-vote-against-him voter seems to be far more in evidence now among Republicans than it ever was among Democrats during the primary campaign. Racism and sexism were much discussed, but anti-Muslim bigotry wasn't.
John Carson
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Oakman wrote:
don't think it's acceptable that any Americans live like third worlders simply because they are too old or too sick to fend for themselves
I don't either. Those who truely need help need to get it. In our current state though, most who are getting it don't really need it. In fact, those who don't really need it are being hurt by getting it.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
Those who truely need help need to get it. In our current state though, most who are getting it don't really need it. In fact, those who don't really need it are being hurt by getting it.
The system definitely needs improving. I think some of the fear being generated right now is media created. If we only read about yesterday's woes while reading the morning paper, there might be a lot less pandering along the lines of "I feel your pain." On the other hand, I'm guessing that what is trickling down in the economy right now ain't champagne.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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BoneSoft wrote:
Whatever happened to Bush's nationalized retirement accounts idea?
Now that Social Security is going to the General Fund, do you think the Democrats and other Liberals are going to pass legislation that would eliminate all that extra money that they can spend buying our votes?
John P.
jparken wrote:
Now that Social Security is going to the General Fund,
I was under the impression that Reagan changed how SS worked for a long time. But in fact, it still works pretty much as it always has: Since 1932, SS has taken in more than it pays out. The difference is deposited in the SS Trust Fund which must, by law, buy US bonds with its cash. This year, like every one before it, SS will put money into the Trust Fund which in turn will go into the general coffers (as it always has) when the bonds are purchased. Until Reagan, the transactions were not recognized as income to the General Fund during the budget process, though they were treated that way once they were received. By recognizing the transactions, of course, Reagan was able to spend more money while not appearing to unbalance the budget (at least no worse than he did.) SS will continue to take in more than it disburses until 2017. In 2018, it will need to start cashing in some of the bonds that it holds. This is the 'problem' that our elected representatives believe they need to solve: an organization with a great deal of political clout is going to expect the U.S. Government to redeem the bonds it has been selling to that organization and its crochety old members or the last 80 years. Unfortunately, these transactions will also have to be recognized at budget time, just like the ones that allowed Reagan to spend more without making a big deal out of it - only these transactions are minuses, not pluses. :omg: If those bonds are redeemed as they should be, then SS will have enough to keep going until 2017. If they aren't, China will start demanding payment as well and that'll be a good time to know your survival skills.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Could be, might be... blah, blah, blah. Have you actually got something to say about it? Do you wish to dispute what Colin Powell said? Do you want to try to argue that both parties suffer equally from the affliction?
oilFactotum wrote:
Could be, might be... blah, blah, blah. Have you actually got something to say about it?
OK, for the third of fourth time: Your statement was false. You cannot deduce one from the other (not logically anyway). "Could be, might be" were to show some of the myriad possible examples that would disprove your silly statement.
oilFactotum wrote:
Do you wish to dispute what Colin Powell said? Do you want to try to argue that both parties suffer equally from the affliction?
Despite the fact that Colin Powell is obviously the supreme authority on the subject... :rolleyes: Do you want to argue that both parties don't suffer equally from the affliction? Though there's not much point, neither of us knows or has any data on the topic. There are bigots all over the place and a lot of them hide it. Hell, let's not spend a whole second day beating around the bush... Were you trying to say that Republicans are more bigoted that Democrats?
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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oilFactotum wrote:
Could be, might be... blah, blah, blah. Have you actually got something to say about it?
OK, for the third of fourth time: Your statement was false. You cannot deduce one from the other (not logically anyway). "Could be, might be" were to show some of the myriad possible examples that would disprove your silly statement.
oilFactotum wrote:
Do you wish to dispute what Colin Powell said? Do you want to try to argue that both parties suffer equally from the affliction?
Despite the fact that Colin Powell is obviously the supreme authority on the subject... :rolleyes: Do you want to argue that both parties don't suffer equally from the affliction? Though there's not much point, neither of us knows or has any data on the topic. There are bigots all over the place and a lot of them hide it. Hell, let's not spend a whole second day beating around the bush... Were you trying to say that Republicans are more bigoted that Democrats?
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
disprove your silly statement
There was nothing silly about it. You want to ignore the forest for the trees. Ignore the issue and argue symatics. So feel free to repeat yourself four, five and six times. Beating around the bush? What are you talking about? My statement was very direct
Gary Kirkham wrote:
Republicans are opposed to bigotry
oilFactotum wrote:
Never said they weren't. Yet it is clearly an issue within the party.
You can chose to quite playing games and address this point, or not. I'm betting on not. You much prefer to attack what you want me to be saying rather than what I actually say. :rolleyes:
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BoneSoft wrote:
disprove your silly statement
There was nothing silly about it. You want to ignore the forest for the trees. Ignore the issue and argue symatics. So feel free to repeat yourself four, five and six times. Beating around the bush? What are you talking about? My statement was very direct
Gary Kirkham wrote:
Republicans are opposed to bigotry
oilFactotum wrote:
Never said they weren't. Yet it is clearly an issue within the party.
You can chose to quite playing games and address this point, or not. I'm betting on not. You much prefer to attack what you want me to be saying rather than what I actually say. :rolleyes:
It's an issue within the party. Sure, that's correct. Of course it's also correct to say the same of the other party.
oilFactotum wrote:
You much prefer to attack what you want me to be saying rather than what I actually say.
Have you considered the possibility that you just suck at presenting arguments? It's not what I 'want' you to say, it's what you appear to be saying (and it's obviously not just me). I'm sorry, but it's difficult to be you and expect the benifit of the doubt on some things. That may be wrong, but that's the way things are.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.