Top 10 reasons why conservatives should vote for Obama
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By using ridicule as a political tactic. Palin is a very competent politician, she has accomplished more on her own, against much more determined opposition, than Obama ever has. There may be many valid reason to disagree with her, but she represents a tremendous future threat to the left, hence the overt effort to destroy her political as quickly as possible while she is still weak, hence the use of Alinskian principles.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
By using ridicule as a political tactic.
This is something the "right" as you call it has been doing forever and something I have seen you do over and over.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Palin is a very competent politician, she has accomplished more on her own, against much more determined opposition, than Obama ever has.
I am pretty sure you are in the minority with this line of thought.
Stan Shannon wrote:
she represents a tremendous future threat to the left,
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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Christian Graus wrote:
So, you oppose any person with religious beliefs being president?
You didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway since it's something I feel strongly about. When I was younger, I thought I disliked religious people. Later, I found religious people I liked and even respected (you're among that group) and I realized that religion isn't the problem. The problem is forcing closed-minded dogma on others and there happens to be quite a few (vocal) religious (and non-religious) people who do that, but there's plenty who don't. I would like to vote for politicians while having no idea what their religion is. I want to vote for politicians based on their policies and I want their policies to represent all citizens, not just ones who belong to their particular religion. I don't want all 10 Commandments implemented as law (though some are, as they should be) and I don't want Sharia Law. A politician's religion should be their own business; just as I don't enforce my personal religion in my job, they shouldn't enforce it in theirs. That's the value of separation of church and state.
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
Yeah, I agree, and that was my point. If they are seperate ( as they should be ), then it's wrong to say 'he's a Christian therefore he wants to erode the seperation between church and state', if he's not said that, then it's not something one should assume.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "Iam doing the browsing center project in vb.net using c# coding" - this is why I don't answer questions much anymore. Oh, and Microsoft doesn't want me to.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
That works for me - Palin in 2012
C'mon, out of all the possible Republican candidates, you can't think of anyone better? Why not someone like Huckabee?
Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)
Bobby Jindal. But then, you guys would just trash him too. But Palin is perfect in almost every way. Plus, the left hates her. Even more perfect! Why do you have so much contempt for her?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
By using ridicule as a political tactic.
This is something the "right" as you call it has been doing forever and something I have seen you do over and over.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Palin is a very competent politician, she has accomplished more on her own, against much more determined opposition, than Obama ever has.
I am pretty sure you are in the minority with this line of thought.
Stan Shannon wrote:
she represents a tremendous future threat to the left,
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
jgasm wrote:
This is something the "right" as you call it has been doing forever and something I have seen you do over and over.
As a matter of fact, we don't. The tactic comes right out of Rules for Radicals. Reagan, Quayle,Bush, Palin, Thomas, etc, etc, etc...
jgasm wrote:
I am pretty sure you are in the minority with this line of thought.
So refute it.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Indeed, thats the only reason he beat Hillary in the first place - a far more radically leftist background.
Nah. IMO he beat her because he's more charismatic and genuine, and he's not a Clinton, which goes along with his message for "change". He also got it right on Iraq, which would have brought Hillary the same problems Kerry had four years ago. To sum it up: the voters decided Obama was more electable in November.
Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)
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jgasm wrote:
This is something the "right" as you call it has been doing forever and something I have seen you do over and over.
As a matter of fact, we don't. The tactic comes right out of Rules for Radicals. Reagan, Quayle,Bush, Palin, Thomas, etc, etc, etc...
jgasm wrote:
I am pretty sure you are in the minority with this line of thought.
So refute it.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
As a matter of fact, we don't.
:laugh:
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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Bobby Jindal. But then, you guys would just trash him too. But Palin is perfect in almost every way. Plus, the left hates her. Even more perfect! Why do you have so much contempt for her?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
But Palin is perfect in almost every way.
:laugh: :laugh:
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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Yeah, I agree, and that was my point. If they are seperate ( as they should be ), then it's wrong to say 'he's a Christian therefore he wants to erode the seperation between church and state', if he's not said that, then it's not something one should assume.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "Iam doing the browsing center project in vb.net using c# coding" - this is why I don't answer questions much anymore. Oh, and Microsoft doesn't want me to.
Christian Graus wrote:
it's wrong to say 'he's a Christian therefore he wants to erode the seperation between church and state'
I have to agree; there's no evidence to suggest Obama would do that.
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
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Oakman wrote:
Which ones are you opposed to?
1, 2, 3, 4, 6 have no business in law or government. Depending on one's definition of "covet", 9 & 10 are gone as well. That leaves only murder, theft and bearing false witness which are the ones I suspect Daniel was referring to.
Oakman wrote:
Are you against the Golden Rule as well?
As a law... yes.
Oakman wrote:
How do you feel about Spirituals like "Let My People Go?" Would you just as soon never hear them?
I don't seek them out but they don't bother me.
Oakman wrote:
Should all Priests, Ministers and Rabbis be kept from having access to broadcasting facilities so you won't accidently see one while switching channels?
Nope - what Daniel said.
Oakman wrote:
Do you refuse to handle cash because of "In God We Trust?"
Nope - but I prefer e-money for the convenience.
Oakman wrote:
Have you quit beating your wife?
Never started - but how would that fit into the conversation?
So you are opposed to honoring your parents? :confused: And you want people to work seven days @ week? :( And you think it's okay for your wife commit adultery? :omg: You may have come in too late, Mike. I just got tired of Fergie playing the Gotcha Game like he was Katie Couric.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
Sorry, Stan, but staying home doesn't make you one either
My Republican brother-in-law claims that they don't go to church, "but we still have our [Christian] faith". :-)
Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)
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Christian Graus wrote:
it's wrong to say 'he's a Christian therefore he wants to erode the seperation between church and state'
I have to agree; there's no evidence to suggest Obama would do that.
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
Obama is a christian and will work to erode the wall between church and state
So, you oppose any person with religious beliefs being president ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "Iam doing the browsing center project in vb.net using c# coding" - this is why I don't answer questions much anymore. Oh, and Microsoft doesn't want me to.
Barack Obama on the Separation of Church & State[^] But to answer your specific question, no, I don't oppose persons with religious beliefs being president as long as they don't inflict their beliefs on others through force or mandate. Religion should not be a requirement for or a bar to public office.
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Bobby Jindal. But then, you guys would just trash him too. But Palin is perfect in almost every way. Plus, the left hates her. Even more perfect! Why do you have so much contempt for her?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
But Palin is perfect in almost every way.
Nah, you wish. She's got plenty of dirt in her past.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Plus, the left hates her. Even more perfect! Why do you have so much contempt for her?
Because I don't want a pitbull with a folksy hockey-mom demeanor in the White House. I want an intelligent articulate statesman (or woman). The role is too important to leave it for someone that just pisses the other side off. Watch the SNL skits with Tina Fey, especially this[^] one with Bush. They really highlight the qualities in Palin that make her so... innappropriate for the job.
Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)
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So you are opposed to honoring your parents? :confused: And you want people to work seven days @ week? :( And you think it's okay for your wife commit adultery? :omg: You may have come in too late, Mike. I just got tired of Fergie playing the Gotcha Game like he was Katie Couric.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
No, no & no. They just don't need to be enforced by the government.
Oakman wrote:
I just got tired of Fergie playing the Gotcha Game like he was Katie Couric.
I hadn't noticed him doing that - but then again I haven't paid too much attention to the SB lately. It gets more and more harsh as we near the election.
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Fair enough, Obama has made some comments about church and state. I'm sorry, but I don't think they're quite conclusive enough to know whether he would respect the separation or not. Due to the number of people who would not vote for an atheist it seems almost necessary for a presidential candidate to be openly religious. Obama isn't saying that Iraq is a mission from God, so at least he's keeping it sane.
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
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Fair enough, Obama has made some comments about church and state. I'm sorry, but I don't think they're quite conclusive enough to know whether he would respect the separation or not. Due to the number of people who would not vote for an atheist it seems almost necessary for a presidential candidate to be openly religious. Obama isn't saying that Iraq is a mission from God, so at least he's keeping it sane.
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
Daniel Ferguson wrote:
Obama isn't saying that Iraq is a mission from God, so at least he's keeping it sane.
But then, no one said such a thing. However, certain lying "secularists" falsely claim that someone said such a thing. And other "secularists" -- because they are intellectually dishonest -- will keep repeating the lie.
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Daniel Ferguson wrote:
Obama isn't saying that Iraq is a mission from God, so at least he's keeping it sane.
But then, no one said such a thing. However, certain lying "secularists" falsely claim that someone said such a thing. And other "secularists" -- because they are intellectually dishonest -- will keep repeating the lie.
Ilíon wrote:
However, certain lying "secularists" falsely claim that someone said such a thing.
"While describing her family, Palin told students about her oldest son, 19-year-old Track, who is set to be deployed to Iraq this month with the U.S. Army. She urged students to pray “that our leaders -- that our national leaders -- are sending [soldiers] out on a task that is from God.”
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/02/1327574.aspx[^]
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
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Fair enough, Obama has made some comments about church and state. I'm sorry, but I don't think they're quite conclusive enough to know whether he would respect the separation or not. Due to the number of people who would not vote for an atheist it seems almost necessary for a presidential candidate to be openly religious. Obama isn't saying that Iraq is a mission from God, so at least he's keeping it sane.
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
Daniel Ferguson wrote:
Due to the number of people who would not vote for an atheist it seems almost necessary for a presidential candidate to be openly religious.
It seems almost necessary to take being openly religious to a ridiculous extreme. That's what I fear most: a reasonably sane religious person is forced to prove their bona fides to get elected or re-elected and ends up crossing the boundary.
Daniel Ferguson wrote:
Obama isn't saying that Iraq is a mission from God, so at least he's keeping it sane.
That's true. Bush is insane. He believes that god talks to him and agrees with him. Yech!
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Stan Shannon wrote:
But Palin is perfect in almost every way.
Nah, you wish. She's got plenty of dirt in her past.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Plus, the left hates her. Even more perfect! Why do you have so much contempt for her?
Because I don't want a pitbull with a folksy hockey-mom demeanor in the White House. I want an intelligent articulate statesman (or woman). The role is too important to leave it for someone that just pisses the other side off. Watch the SNL skits with Tina Fey, especially this[^] one with Bush. They really highlight the qualities in Palin that make her so... innappropriate for the job.
Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)
Al Beback wrote:
Nah, you wish. She's got plenty of dirt in her past.
No she doesn't. She has one possible and entirely insignificant issue that may represent some impropriaty on her part, but probably doesn't. She is remarkably clean politically (and personnally too, I'm sure)
Al Beback wrote:
Because I don't want a pitbull with a folksy hockey-mom demeanor in the White House.
So no Lincoln or Truman for you than, eh?
Al Beback wrote:
I want an intelligent articulate statesman (or woman). The role is too important to leave it for someone that just pisses the other side off.
Like Bill Clinton? What I want is a mad dog partisan conservative avenger who's one single-minded purpose in life is the utter and wilful destruction of the democrat party. You know, like they treat conservatives...
Al Beback wrote:
Watch the SNL skits with Tina Fey,
RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.) ain't gonna work, Saul. We are wiseing up to this socialist bullshit.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
As a matter of fact, we don't.
:laugh:
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
WE don't. Laugh all you like. But conservatives don't need to use those kinds of tactics. The truth is sufficient enough.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.