Parents: vaccinate or not?
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Roger Wright wrote:
No doubt about that, but there's an awful lot of fake science being done that is taken seriously - ddt, saccharine, global warming ...
How is global warming fake science ? Global warming and cooling periods have occurred naturally for millions of years. There is no doubt that we are currently in a period of global warming. The question that is still debated is how much of it if any is caused by humans. Most scientists agree that humans are at least partly to blame for speeding up the rate of global warming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming[^]
I don't doubt the cyclic nature of climate; it's the human influence I find little evidence to support. When I was growing up we were in imminent danger of facing another global ice age, but the media wasn't quite as noisy back then. Both predictions are based on the same dubious data. What we need to focus on is learning to cope with inevitable variations in climate. Any dreams of influencing it is pure arrogance multiplied by presumption; we're not significant enough for Earth to notice.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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I'm almost afraid to ask but ... what is shongololo? Please don't tell me, you ate millipedes.
Douglas Troy wrote:
Please don't tell me, you ate millipedes
Yes, yes I did. They're big suckers in Africa.
cheers, Paul M. Watson.
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I'm sitting here watching The Doctors and there are some mothers who are just screaming against vaccinations. Just curious to ask the parents here how you feel on the subject.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
We have vaccinated all 3 of our girls. As a parent, I am always concerned about things like this: do we really know enough, are "they" telling us the truth, etc...etc... If it's really a concern, read everything you can on the subject. Educate yourself on the arguments that both sides have (for and against) and then make your decision. At least that way, you can go into it knowing you've done your homework. But read the research, read what pediatricians say, read what other doctors say, don't watch some TV show and make your decisions based on that ... TV shows are all about ratings, not about truth, IMHO.
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Douglas Troy wrote:
Please don't tell me, you ate millipedes
Yes, yes I did. They're big suckers in Africa.
cheers, Paul M. Watson.
So, I have to ask ... did it taste like Chicken?
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So, I have to ask ... did it taste like Chicken?
No, no it didn't. Gooey inside with a crunchy shell and stringy legs*. The goo was a bit salty but otherwise quite tasteless. Poor shongololo, it didn't deserve to get eaten... * Like a prawn
cheers, Paul M. Watson.
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No, no it didn't. Gooey inside with a crunchy shell and stringy legs*. The goo was a bit salty but otherwise quite tasteless. Poor shongololo, it didn't deserve to get eaten... * Like a prawn
cheers, Paul M. Watson.
Salty uh? Must be high in sodium. Oh well, I'll have to scratch that off my things to try to eat list. High sodium's bad for you ya know. :rolleyes:
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I'm sitting here watching The Doctors and there are some mothers who are just screaming against vaccinations. Just curious to ask the parents here how you feel on the subject.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
Definitely vaccinate. The possibilities of long-term health problems from the 'vaccinated' diseases are far greater than from any possible side-effects from the vaccine itself. My son had the misfortune to emigrate after six months of UK vaccines, and therefore needed an extra lot for the different bugs there have here in NZ. Even though it was more jabs for him, we didn't hesitate to get them all done.
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Is there even a question? Vaccinate of course! Not doing so is like signing a death sentence for the kids - and you'd be helping to spread diseases.
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What would be the reasons not to? Are parents concerned about the side-effects?
Best wishes, Hans
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I'm sitting here watching The Doctors and there are some mothers who are just screaming against vaccinations. Just curious to ask the parents here how you feel on the subject.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
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Vaccinate, in my opinion. But you can request that the MMR (the one in debate) shot be broken into three distinct shots, instead of one whiz-bang do-it-all shot. Please discuss the entire issue in depth with your children's pediatrician so that you can make the choice with all the information you can. I've been following the debate/discussion on this very closely, so that I could determine what to do for my little ones as well. I had both little ones vaccinated, even with the MMR vaccination. The potential for complications from the diseases that the children could contract without the vaccinations are great. And since schools are beginning to see outbreaks of these diseases once again, I decided to protect my children from the diseases. One of the theories that I've read concerning the autism-link (and the link has been disproven supposedly, but who knows)is that there may be a gene whose expression is triggered either by the high fever that may result as a reaction to the vaccination, or perhaps by the combination of the three shots. The gene's expression might be triggered otherwise maybe not. Other studies say there is absolutely no link. What confuses it even more are the heartbreaking stories from parents who have even delayed the MMR shot, and then right after child's reaction to the shot, language never returns (which means the autism wasn't expressed during the usual 12 month to 2 year time span, but later, which defies the coincidental timing argument). It's difficult to make an informed decision. I tried to make mine on a logical basis, and not a knee-jerk emotional one, but some of the parents' stories are difficult to explain. I am mentioning these items not to claim to know oh-so-much, but to mention the different camps of thinking. I have to run to pick up my children, so I can't follow this thread until tomorrow, but I am very interested to hear others' opinions as well. Take care all. blueSprite
I don't have kids myself. I have heard issues with the MMR combo. One doctor said the doctor should look at the family history of auto immune diseases and dosages should vary depending on size where right now they are a one size fits all.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
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I don't doubt the cyclic nature of climate; it's the human influence I find little evidence to support. When I was growing up we were in imminent danger of facing another global ice age, but the media wasn't quite as noisy back then. Both predictions are based on the same dubious data. What we need to focus on is learning to cope with inevitable variations in climate. Any dreams of influencing it is pure arrogance multiplied by presumption; we're not significant enough for Earth to notice.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
Roger Wright wrote:
we're not significant enough for Earth to notice.
We are. Humanity has devastated the natural kingdom both on-land and in the oceans. We have desertified vast tracts of land, poisoned many more and denuded even greater areas. Water sources have been corrupted and cities have created local weather phenomenons (doubtful this has any long term or significant impact however.) The ozone layer was undoubtedly affected by man's pollutants. During your lifetime we stood on the brink of a nuclear winter which would have had global effects. The bed-rock of Earth may remain unaffected but Earth is not just its bed-rock. It is a living whole. Nor is it just the long-term average with blips of abundance and death. There is the here and now and how we have influenced it. For awhile I used to think extinction of certain animals was sad but inevitable. If the white rhino could not survive in a changing habitat then why preserve it? It would die off anyway. Keep some in a zoo and forget about the wild ones. But then I saw human arrogance encroaching on other living things' environments and realised we should strive to be better, for their sake and ours. If we just keep on rolling as we do now it doesn't matter if we are impacting the climate or not, we'll simply be a poorer species for having trampled other species under our needless soles. We can adapt and survive but our actions have probably signed the death warrant of countless other species. So I'd like to consume less, pollute less and choose better so that I can live in a clean, diverse and interesting world. (I'm not trying to accuse you at all Roger, I think you are a deeply empathic individual and probably understand the above better than I do. But my dad makes the same arguments as you do and I think it misses the point. Man needs to change and climate change is as good a driver as any I can think of. The suffering of the poor and hungry hasn't worked to make us better, maybe something that is on our marble doorsteps and not on another continent will.) :) I feel better now. My emo karma must be going upward...
cheers, Paul M. Watson.
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My parents let me eat a shongololo when I was a kid. If anything it only made me stronger, I rarely get sick. I hope Leah eats her shongololo one day. I don't want a bubble-baby.
cheers, Paul M. Watson.
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I don't doubt the cyclic nature of climate; it's the human influence I find little evidence to support. When I was growing up we were in imminent danger of facing another global ice age, but the media wasn't quite as noisy back then. Both predictions are based on the same dubious data. What we need to focus on is learning to cope with inevitable variations in climate. Any dreams of influencing it is pure arrogance multiplied by presumption; we're not significant enough for Earth to notice.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
Roger Wright wrote:
Any dreams of influencing it is pure arrogance multiplied by presumption; we're not significant enough for Earth to notice.
Bollocks, Roger. I could give a rebuttal to that, but I think Paul was very eloquent in his.
Cheers, Vıkram.
"You idiot British surprise me that your generators which grew up after Mid 50s had no brain at all." - Adnan Siddiqi.
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I'm sitting here watching The Doctors and there are some mothers who are just screaming against vaccinations. Just curious to ask the parents here how you feel on the subject.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
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Besides the autism there are other claims of really bad reactions. One claimed that the vaccines themselves are making the viruses worse.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
Total crap and BS made up by the same type of people who think we never landed on the moon, 9-11 was a government plan, blah blah blah. I read once where mothers milk caused cancer.... I'll just stick with getting them and recommending everyone else do the same...opinion based on my wifes expert thoughts and opinions (with over 30 years in Nursing/Infusion Specialization, Research and Education).
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I'm sitting here watching The Doctors and there are some mothers who are just screaming against vaccinations. Just curious to ask the parents here how you feel on the subject.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
The only reason anyone can question the effectiveness of vaccinations is because they work! The current generation of parents have never seen the deaths / problems caused by polio, measles, etc, because those diseases have virtually disappeared as a result of vaccinations. And they apparently have either forgotten or can’t be bothered to read history. I am old enough to have known some of the polio victims, the lucky ones that lived. I can assure you that not one of them ever questioned the idea of vaccinating their kids.
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I'm sitting here watching The Doctors and there are some mothers who are just screaming against vaccinations. Just curious to ask the parents here how you feel on the subject.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
but a concerned citizen wiht *shudder* personal contact to many kids. Now, if you have a million kids this is simple: vaccinate, as it will allow you to keep most of them. If you have two million, you might even separate them into two groups, one vaccinated and one not, so you can make a truly informed decision for the kids that follow. Now, if you have less kids, things are a bit more complicated. You can calculate probabilities and weight the difference in emotional impact between a less likely event that can be directly traced to your actrions against a more likely event that can be directly traced to your inaction. Alternatively, if this seems to complicated to work out, just continue producing more kids until you are in the statistically safe zone. All kidding aside: Regarding individual vaccinations, you need to make a informed decision about the risks involved, and frankly, only a good doctor can help you with that. The simple explanation is that the risk of an permanent damage due to vaccination is much less than the risks of the infection. This is, of course, only part of the story - but for the basic immunisations, it is by far the MAJOR part. Do you really want to see your baby die of Tetanus[^]? I could go ballistic on stuff like "11 arguments against polio vaccination - heling parents decide". Now, for some infections, there is another part: in a well immunized society, it is safe to be unvaccinated. So you can improve the chances of your offspring by offloading the risk to others. (We are really talking about one in 100.000 or 1 in a million or less here). Now I can understand the determination of a parent to disregard "the better for the whole" in favor of egoism. That's the job of a parent, in a way. However, this leaves society with the problem that for quickjly spreading diseases, you need a minimum immunized population (around 30% for classic infections IIRC) to prevent them from becoming epidemic. And we do have the problem of a billion-dollar pharma industry that is looking for new markets. (it must be said, though, that a typical vaccination isn't as profitable as some symptomatic treatment you have to take daily). So the question "to vaccinate or not to vaciinate?" is