Am I overreacting?
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
There are over 1 million abortions each year in the United States.
The p*n industry is very profitable then.
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
If you compare the time span of the Holocaust, roughly 1935 to 1945, when six million Jews were slaughtered
There is a difference. They did not buy, but were forced to pay a price. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
The p*n industry
Is this meant to be the porn industry? If not, which industry are you referring to?
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
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Paul Selormey wrote:
They did not buy, but were forced to pay a price.
Bad argument - you are comparing the victims of the Holocaust to the women who had abortions. Not the babies/foetuses/minimillay specialized cell groupings (pick one that your comfortable with). So in response to you quote: Who were forced to pay a price - the jews or the babies? As an aside - why does anyone get involved in this argument? Have you ever seen anybody change sides on this issue?
I'm pretty sure I would not like to live in a world in which I would never be offended. I am absolutely certain I don't want to live in a world in which you would never be offended. Dave
DRHuff wrote:
Bad argument - you are comparing the victims of the Holocaust to the women who had abortions.
No, that was what leckey saw.
DRHuff wrote:
Who were forced to pay a price - the jews or the babies?
Both, the Jews for doing nothing wrong. The US babies for the multi-billion p*n industry being promoted worldwide.
DRHuff wrote:
As an aside - why does anyone get involved in this argument? Have you ever seen anybody change sides on this issue?
No, there is no argument. It is just politics, using Christianity as the target. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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1. Just pointing how the US got there. 2. The difference has nothing to do with "religious heritage". Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
What do porn and abortions have to do with each other ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "Iam doing the browsing center project in vb.net using c# coding" - this is why I don't answer questions much anymore. Oh, and Microsoft doesn't want me to.
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What do porn and abortions have to do with each other ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "Iam doing the browsing center project in vb.net using c# coding" - this is why I don't answer questions much anymore. Oh, and Microsoft doesn't want me to.
Oh good, so it's not just me who thought that was what he was getting at...
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
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What do porn and abortions have to do with each other ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "Iam doing the browsing center project in vb.net using c# coding" - this is why I don't answer questions much anymore. Oh, and Microsoft doesn't want me to.
I do not know if I have to say it again, the porn does nothing more than promoting sex, right? Do we need to find the relation between sex and abortion? Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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So waving a flag is freedom of speech. Burning a flag is wilful destruction of property?
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
So waving a flag is freedom of speech.
You are never forced to wave it. :)
_Damian S_ wrote:
Burning a flag is wilful destruction of property?
It is someone's property, and you should be programming if you have time :) Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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I do not know if I have to say it again, the porn does nothing more than promoting sex, right? Do we need to find the relation between sex and abortion? Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
I would have thought that the people watching porn are more likely to be using their hand than another person, therefore less likely to cause an unwanted pregnancy...
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
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I would have thought that the people watching porn are more likely to be using their hand than another person, therefore less likely to cause an unwanted pregnancy...
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
I would have thought that the people watching...
That limits the scope of its influence. When it is rooted, it affects many things, and comes in many different bits including commercials, dressing, talking etc. I have turned off my TV and very happy with the decision. A Japanese pastor told me he/wife do not watch it, and I now thank God for him. I wonder how a kid will grow here in Japan without seeing a porn, the magazines are all around they do not need to buy it. The result is a drive for sex; prepared or unprepared, willingly or forcefully. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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In my little town there is a house on the main drag with tons of anti-abortion stuff like signs saying "ABORTION IS MURDER." Never really cared about it before, however, today I drove by and there is a new sign. It says, "ABORTION IS TODAY'S HOLOCAUST" WTF? I understand that abortion gets a lot of people riled up, but I find this so totally offensive. I understand free speech but I find this incendiary. Am I just overreacting because of my religion or would those of you WHO ARE REASONABLE (which excludes a number from SB) feel the same way?
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
Even the bible says that Abortion is not murder! It defines the killing of an unborn child as crime against property, not against the individual. So all the Bible-Bashing Cretins are hypocritical tossers who can f#'& off telling others how to live by their self imposed biblical rules when even they can't!
------------------------------------ We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. - Aesop
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In my little town there is a house on the main drag with tons of anti-abortion stuff like signs saying "ABORTION IS MURDER." Never really cared about it before, however, today I drove by and there is a new sign. It says, "ABORTION IS TODAY'S HOLOCAUST" WTF? I understand that abortion gets a lot of people riled up, but I find this so totally offensive. I understand free speech but I find this incendiary. Am I just overreacting because of my religion or would those of you WHO ARE REASONABLE (which excludes a number from SB) feel the same way?
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
You're not overreacting... Those putting up signs never have been in any trouble I reckon. I'm not saying every abortion is OK, but IMO that's a case to case bases ...
V.
Stop smoking so you can: Enjoy longer the money you save. Moviereview Archive -
I do not know if I have to say it again, the porn does nothing more than promoting sex, right? Do we need to find the relation between sex and abortion? Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Please do, because IMO it's just a matter of education...
V.
Stop smoking so you can: Enjoy longer the money you save. Moviereview Archive -
In my little town there is a house on the main drag with tons of anti-abortion stuff like signs saying "ABORTION IS MURDER." Never really cared about it before, however, today I drove by and there is a new sign. It says, "ABORTION IS TODAY'S HOLOCAUST" WTF? I understand that abortion gets a lot of people riled up, but I find this so totally offensive. I understand free speech but I find this incendiary. Am I just overreacting because of my religion or would those of you WHO ARE REASONABLE (which excludes a number from SB) feel the same way?
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
No, you're just reacting inconsistently. If 'abortion is murder' doesn't engender this reaction from you, and you know their are hundreds of thousands of abortions every year, then why would you not already realize the logical extension that 'abortion constitutues a modern genocide'. If it is ammounting to hundreds of thousands of deaths every year, sponsored and legalised by the state all directed at one one vulnerable sector of the population (in this case the < 0 days old ) then what would you call this but a 'modern holocaust'? The fact that it takes these words specifically to make you react implies either that you never understood the message of the previous posters, don't think logically about what you read, or don't understand what the holocaust was. I suspect the middle option which would place you in the same bracket as most people who read, emote, subconciously absorb and then consiously forget. This may seem like a simple criticism but it's far more than that. It's why advertising works, why you almost certainly don't know about the work of the Rand Coporation, why so many people will vote for Obama, for Camaron, for Cheese if it's dressed right and not understand why they don't get what they mistakenly think they've been promised.
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
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Stan Shannon wrote:
What part of "YOu can't make a law against flag burning" can't you understand is an abridgment of free speech?
The part where it directly contravenes the First Amendment. In other words, all of it.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
But it took free speech to create those laws in the first place. Someone said "Hey, I think we need a law protecting the flag from abuse" and then someone else said "Hey, I think thats a good idea", so t hey made a little law for their little town. See, that is free speech which allows free people to actually define and immediately affect the parameters of their own society. It is free speech with teeth. You still have not answered or explained why that free speech is bad and 'flag burning' free speech is good. I simply do not understand the reasoning behind that. It makes no sense at all to me.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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How is an action considered speech? Freedom of speech should be just that - the freedom to voice one's opinion without fear of retribution. Burning a flag is an overt action that ought to be condemned. The argument saying that burning a flag is expressing freedom of speech is like saying freedom of speech allows me to punch someone in the face. It has ceased being speech and become an action... Commence flaming now...
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
Freedom of speech should be just that - the freedom to voice one's opinion without fear of retribution. Burning a flag is an overt action that ought to be condemned.
Maybe it should be (and maybe it is, I know jack shit about us law system) called freedom of expressing ideas, opinions and feelings. As long as it's your flag you are burning its ok (unless you burn it in a crowd in a way that the smoke and fire endanger other people :P) It's not only voice how you express yourself, written word, drawings, gestures too... As long as you are not breaking any other law (and that is important part, see your example about punching someone in the face).
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Oakman wrote:
When Gregory Lee Johnson burned a flag as part of a political protest in 1989, he was convicted for flag desecration under Texas law, but the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals reversed the conviction on First Amendment grounds and the Supreme Court confirmed that physically damaging the flag constituted symbolic--and protected--speech. In it's decision the Court said, "If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable."
But as I recall, the flag he burned wasn't even his but one being displayed in front of City Hall. Seems like it would have saved us all a lot of time and drama if he had been arrested for destroying public property instead of burning the flag. I know the point is moot in some ways; if it hadn't been him, it would have been someone else to raise the issue. But still, every time I think of that case, I get infuriated not so much because of the flag burning but because the destruction of public property was somehow tacitly approved of as free speech. I can remember afterwards protesters celebrating the case by burning the flag and running it up a flag pole at a post office. EDIT: Ok, I just looked this up on Wikipedia: Gregory Lee Johnson participated in a political demonstration during the 1984 Republican National Convention in Dallas, Texas. The demonstrators were protesting the policies of the Reagan Administration and of certain companies based in Dallas. They marched through the streets, shouted chants, and held signs outside the offices of several companies. At one point, another demonstrator handed Johnson an American flag taken from a flagpole outside one of the targeted buildings.[^]
Leslie Sanford wrote:
I get infuriated not so much because of the flag burning but because the destruction of public property was somehow tacitly approved of as free speech.
A very, very good point. Anyone should be allowed to run out, buy a flag, and burn it, on their own property, or public property where the general public is in agreement with the sentiment.
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find anything that agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. (Siddhartha Gautama - The Buddha), 563-483 B.C.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I thought it was illegal? I thought it can only be disposed of in a certain way only?
How these things work, in practice, is that if a person perfoms an act which is approved by "liberals" -- say, burning the flag, or harrassing the patrons of the public library with one's massively unwashed body odors -- then it counts are "free speech". But on the other hand, if a person perfoms an act which is disapproved by "liberals" -- say, displaying a picture of the results of abortions, or stating that abortion is murder, or stating that homosexual behavior is immoral -- then it does not count as "free speech," but rather is an incitement to "hatred" and ought to be suppressed.
Ilíon wrote:
homosexual behavior
Just what is homosexual behaviour? Surely it is purely sexual behaviour, the moral weight of which is in any reasonable person's eyes much less than that of public lying and bigotry?
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find anything that agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. (Siddhartha Gautama - The Buddha), 563-483 B.C.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Surely you're allowed to use your freedom of speech to comment, just not to smack them in the face ?
Not more than I week ago I was being assured by Jon, and others, that freedom of speech was not about being offensive. Now, we are back to it being exclusively about being offensive. I wish people could make their minds up. For my part, the reason I have freedom of speech is specifically so that I can state that flag burning should be illegal and actually have it become illegal if enough of my neighbors agree with me. Unless, that is, there is specific language in the constitution stating that burning a flag is protected free speech. Freedom of speech is not about making comments, it is about making law.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Now, we are back to it being exclusively about being offensive. I wish people could make their minds up.
I only saw this now, long after posting the above One man, one insult, thread. :laugh:
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find anything that agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. (Siddhartha Gautama - The Buddha), 563-483 B.C.
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Yep - dead and cremated.
I'm pretty sure I would not like to live in a world in which I would never be offended. I am absolutely certain I don't want to live in a world in which you would never be offended. Dave
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So waving a flag is freedom of speech. Burning a flag is wilful destruction of property?
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
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In my little town there is a house on the main drag with tons of anti-abortion stuff like signs saying "ABORTION IS MURDER." Never really cared about it before, however, today I drove by and there is a new sign. It says, "ABORTION IS TODAY'S HOLOCAUST" WTF? I understand that abortion gets a lot of people riled up, but I find this so totally offensive. I understand free speech but I find this incendiary. Am I just overreacting because of my religion or would those of you WHO ARE REASONABLE (which excludes a number from SB) feel the same way?
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
Yes - you're overreacting. For someone who honestly believes that abortion is murder, legalized abortion easily equates to state sanctioned murder. With nearly a million legal abortions per year in the US alone since 1973 that puts the number of these "state sanctioned murders" pretty high. Throw in the rest of the world and it makes the holocaust look downright tame. Disclaimer - The above statements are not necessarily my beliefs just a logical understanding given a specific belief.