Tips for Code Reviewing Juniors in a Far-East Asian work culture?
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I've run into that "culture" before and contrary to what others say, it really is a cultural difference. In my case, the people were so kindhearted that they just didn't want to hurt my feelings by giving bad news, so they wouldn't tell me that things were going bad. Of course ultimately the inevitable happened and I was left holding the bag. It's frustrating, but I never found a good way to get them to let me know the bad news ASAP. I ended up trying to understand what they really meant by reading between the lines. In other words, if they didn't come right out and tell me that things were fantastic, I assumed they weren't and started investigating. I think you are in a slightly different position than I was, so I think you have a real challenge on your hands. You'll need to really understand their culture and mindset and also find out how they deal with such things. Any direct advice we give you on CP without actually knowing the situation would probably just get you into more problems. That said, I'd probably try to find a local who somewhat understands western thinking and ask them what to do. Surely they have ways of handling such situations that are probably more subtle, but probably as effective. And unless you are fluent in the local language and customs, it may indeed be tough to dish out their subtleties. Good luck!
The PetroNerd
Walt Fair, Jr. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
I think you are in a slightly different position than I was, so I think you have a real challenge on your hands. You'll need to really understand their culture and mindset and also find out how they deal with such things. Any direct advice we give you on CP without actually knowing the situation would probably just get you into more problems. That said, I'd probably try to find a local who somewhat understands western thinking and ask them what to do. Surely they have ways of handling such situations that are probably more subtle, but probably as effective. And unless you are fluent in the local language and customs, it may indeed be tough to dish out their subtleties. Good luck!
In this case, my only advantage here is that I speak the language and I'm familiar with many of the customs; ethnically, I'm about as Filipino as everyone else back here--but when I start speaking English, it's pretty obvious that I'm a red-blooded American by culture. :laugh:
Do you know...LinFu?
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
Like Bassam said, talk it over with your boss before talking with the junior programmers. Not sure exactly what you can say to them, but go into the code review with the initiative of helping them improve their code. Try to make it a positive learning environment.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
I'd say: 1. Make sure that it really sucks - it's not just that you prefer doing it one way and they prefer another. 2. Make sure everyone is aware up front that code will be reviewed - no surprises in store. 3. Always start off positive: "This code here is clever - I like the way you've ." Then tell them why what they have done is not best practice. "The problem is that that " Then guide them toward better way "The way round this would be to ". Good - But - Better 4. DON'T rewrite their code (that gets peoples backs up, I've found) point them in the right direction, if you can. If it is critical that that code get done, then rewrite it with them - explain what you are doing. 5. Listen to their arguments. If they think their code is good despite your criticism, hear them out - maybe there's something you missed, or some misunderstanding they have, which can be dealt with by listening to their input. 6. DO overlook minor points where there are bigger fish to fry. My philosophy is always that you are all part of a team - so you all need to work together to produce results. The fact that you are a senior developer means that you should have expertise to share - share it willingly, without seeming arrogant.
Life is like a pubic hair on the toilet seat... ...sometimes, you just get pissed off. .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
I can assure you that it is different and it can be a pain to deal with. One thing that may work is a bug tracking system with anonymous logins. Then you can report bugs, code deficiencies, enhancement etc. And if you want to get really hokey you try to get people to step up and claim ownership of issues and then reward them usually with a simple acknowledgement. It's a bit different form Western style management where you might claim your grandmother could code it better. Damn that's slow!
Todd Smith
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
True. I worked in Nepal all my life starting from a software developer since 9 years back. ppl do not like codes reviewed. I could not say them why this loop here when for is better. In JSF they did not like me poiting to complex object annotations and implementations instead of simple JSF component usage. Code Review is starting. they even do not like when QA personnel point defects and bugs in their programs. they would say, client would not look at codes.
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
Philip Laureano wrote:
What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks?
Let them see your work, they will learn from it. The first company I joined here in Japan, when I asked for a design diagram of their current product, I was given an A4 print-out with about 10 C++ classes, most of which were not found in the codes. Before, MS started integrating Visio into the VS, I bought my own visio and used it for the UML diagrams. It became the standard practice. When starting a major new project (last before leaving), I wrote the rules, and not long after that one of them wrote a tool to check the rules. It is simple, they are not after super-worker but super-team. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
I'm technical manager in a company developing our own inhouse software. After 23 years in Asia & 5 years of management, I still have no answer! It REALLY is a culture thing - I have the same problems as one other poster - staff would rather not say anything than give you bad news, despite the fact that they know from past experience that I am going to be MORE annoyed when I find out the bad news - 5 minutes before the deadline. Sensitivity is over-rated as far as I am concerned, when you are trying to compete globally. I'm too old to change so the junior staff will have to change or get fired if they cannot. I fired someone 2 days ago for going on sick leave & then being caught out running personal errands all day. Even today one of my shift staff didn't want to come in because they had a migraine - I told them I had a bottle of Panadol in my office drawer for my frequent migraines & they eventually came in. My solution is to resign as Technical Director & start my new job on 1st January with the same company as R&D Director, working from home & doing only the projects I want to do. They can have a local Operations Manager to try to get these young people to understand what holding down a job entails - i.e. not downloading GB of porn or Twittering all day.
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
I have worked for a number of years with people from South East Asia and what I think you are noticing is the phenomena in the West called 'Losing face'. What you need to be able to do is find a way to resolve the issue without them feeling that they have 'lost face'. Personally I would never work in the culture you talk about as it is so at odds with my own work ethic where owning up to ones mistakes is more acceptable. All I can say is good luck and try to notice how the people in this culture deal with each other, then follow suit - when in Rome... Also I think telling anyone their code sucks, whatever culture you are in, is poor management. What I suggest is setting up code review meetings. Get them used to it, and make sure everyone participates and contributes. What I think you need to build is connections. Good luck.
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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or maybe you just think too highly of yourself? does this offend you? think about it
---------------------------------------------------------- "unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep" - my daily unix command list
swjam wrote:
or maybe you just think too highly of yourself? does this offend you? think about it
It would be easier if it was just a problem that was all in my head--a splitting migraine is relatively mild compared to having someone else writing try-catch blocks six levels deep and long and heavily if-else-else-if chains to no avail. Believe me, there's a huge cultural gap, and it has nothing to do with my skills or whatever perception I might have of myself.
Do you know...LinFu?
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
It's (IMHO) the responsibility of good senior developers to provide some sort of training and support to the junior programmers; I've been fortunate enough to work with some very experienced programmers who have taught me a great deal and made me a much better developer. How about asking each of the developers to go off and research something (a design pattern, a particular algorithm etc) and then to come back and do a 'knowledge sharing' kind of session? If you choose sensible research tasks you can relate them to the project in hand and ideally to any common problems you've spotted. These sessions would allow you to ask leading questions without having to tell an individual that they're doing something wrong and if done on a regular basis become a nice team activity (as far as senior management are concerned), helps communication within the team but more importantly teaches the developers that they should go off and learn things and develop their own skill sets. I'd also try and develop a set of standards that the entire team sticks to; standard libraries, naming conventions etc. If you allow the team to make some of these decisions they're more likely to adhere to them as well. Quite frankly, this is also going to make you look good to your management team, especially in a people-centric company - a few extra brownie points never hurt anyone!! :)
It definitely isn't definatley
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
From what I know - and I know only little - it is not more people centered, rather on the contrary. You may, however, widely overstepping limits of tact, which may alienate your developers more than you notice. How "western" is your supervisor? If not very much, the situaiton may be much more grave than you think now.
Philip Laureano wrote:
What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks?
You can say everything as long as it allows your developers to save face. Losing face in front of oyu is bad enough, losing face in front of everyone else is like getting schoolyard bullied at age 25 - very very very bad. When telling someone in person, you can mention possible causes beyond his control that might have caused it. You know that isn't what happened, and (one hopes) he knows, but it allows him to save face. E.g. don't chastice someone for checking in non-compiling code, tell them they need to test before checkin next time. Don't tell Roger Wu in front of the others the company is in deep shit because his estimates were just guesswork, but at the next meeting anonymously stress the importance of reliable estimates, that one needs to invest serious time, and verify his assumptions. etc. I know. It sucks. OTOH, a bit of this attitude might improve morale in a western cultured place, too.
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
Hi, Ask why? Many people will do or say things and they don't have a clue as to why they are doing or saying something. Often it's a political statement and has nothing to do with engineering. So, if you see or hear something you think is wrong; ask "Why?". Sometimes there is a factual reason and, you may learn something. Or, you may find the reason to be irrational. Then you can reply with a "What do you think if we did it this way?" and, show them a way you prefer.
Mac
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
There might be a cultural difference. Ok, there IS one. But focusing the entire line of reasoning on the premise, is suboptimal, methinx. I am 100% sure that there are software companies in the US where there are ZERO code-reviews. Introducing code-reviews in such a company [whether it is in Kentucky or Kyoto] is not an overnight process. #1. You need to put some hard work in and really demonstrate to everyone that you are as great as you are. You need need to crack some tough nuts to gain some street cred. #2. You need people to not only tolerate, but also appreciate reviews. Start with management above you. Then make sure the juniors get it too. The idea of code-reviews needs to be absorbed into many levels of your organisation. #3. Assuming that everybody doesn't suck, engage the othe smart seniors, into doing reviews. And finally take a close look at what you really want...
Philip Laureano wrote:
managed to land a fairly-comfortable job
Just my two cents
_____________________________________ Action without thought is not action Action without emotion is not life
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
Ok, I'm speaking from a position of complete ignorance here, but would it be possible to seed good coding and working practices in a couple of the more receptive people and just let the others pick it up by osmosis(it's my favourite way to learn things)?
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I'm technical manager in a company developing our own inhouse software. After 23 years in Asia & 5 years of management, I still have no answer! It REALLY is a culture thing - I have the same problems as one other poster - staff would rather not say anything than give you bad news, despite the fact that they know from past experience that I am going to be MORE annoyed when I find out the bad news - 5 minutes before the deadline. Sensitivity is over-rated as far as I am concerned, when you are trying to compete globally. I'm too old to change so the junior staff will have to change or get fired if they cannot. I fired someone 2 days ago for going on sick leave & then being caught out running personal errands all day. Even today one of my shift staff didn't want to come in because they had a migraine - I told them I had a bottle of Panadol in my office drawer for my frequent migraines & they eventually came in. My solution is to resign as Technical Director & start my new job on 1st January with the same company as R&D Director, working from home & doing only the projects I want to do. They can have a local Operations Manager to try to get these young people to understand what holding down a job entails - i.e. not downloading GB of porn or Twittering all day.
Member 4475214 wrote:
Even today one of my shift staff didn't want to come in because they had a migraine - I told them I had a bottle of Panadol in my office drawer for my frequent migraines
Assuming your employee had a genuine migraine, I'm glad I don't work for you. If you told me that when I had one, I'd quit. You don't have frequent migraines; you've got minor tension headaches. If you did have them, you'd know that Panadol (common asprin) doesn't do sh!t for a migraine. I'd love to have you in my head for an hour with one of mine. You'd run away mewling and crying :mad:.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
Philip Laureano wrote:
What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks?
If you do code reviews, and you find a problematic piece of code, ask them politely why they did it that way. What factors lead them to use that approach? What other approaches did they consider, and why were they rejected? At some point, ask them if they'd considered the approach you think is the correct one. If you can do this without looking at any one person's specific example of a problem, it will allow them to save the face that seems so important. Of course you might also find that your approach isn't the best way, either. :) If you find the same problems over and over again, put together a session on that class of problem, and some practices for dealing with it, without pointing to any individual's code. In fact, avoid pointing fingers if you can avoid it at all. Most people are much more accepting of constructive advice if they don't think you are talking to them specifically, or all by themselves. Brad
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Member 4475214 wrote:
Even today one of my shift staff didn't want to come in because they had a migraine - I told them I had a bottle of Panadol in my office drawer for my frequent migraines
Assuming your employee had a genuine migraine, I'm glad I don't work for you. If you told me that when I had one, I'd quit. You don't have frequent migraines; you've got minor tension headaches. If you did have them, you'd know that Panadol (common asprin) doesn't do sh!t for a migraine. I'd love to have you in my head for an hour with one of mine. You'd run away mewling and crying :mad:.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary Wheeler wrote:
You don't have frequent migraines; [...] You'd run away mewling and crying
Hah! I had much the same thought when I read that! My wife knows what to do when I get one of mine; darken the room, cool cloth on the forehead, and everybody out of the house. :) Fortunately, since finding a doctor who was more interested in solving the problem than medicating the crap out of me, we've identified a couple of triggers, and I avoid those like the plague now. The incidence of migraines has gone down by about 300% over the last three years.