It's Official
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Well, I thought I was the one who said this. This clown seemed to suggest that because it's possible to leak memory in C++, VB is always better.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
seemed to suggest that because it's possible to leak memory in C++, VB is always better
As far as I know, and have seen, memory leaks can occur in both (pretty much most languages for that matter) when bad/sloppy programming practices are done.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
modified on Monday, December 1, 2008 7:45 PM
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Then have sympathy for us poor buggers who travelled the other path, started as excel macro writers (C64 doesn't count), side stepped into SuperBase (basic syntax), flirted with Delphi, got disgusted by 4GL stuff, even had a look under the hood of Notes and ended up with Access. The natural progression is to VB6/SQL Server and you end up in VB.Net. Now try changing to C#, and YOU think the vb syntax is screwy. As far as I'm concerned a pointer is a dog and I'm pleased to note they are rarely used in C#. I thought is would be simply a matter of learning a new syntax but there are a whole load of pitfalls in the differences between them. Still I have my utilities converted so at least I have the same tools and concepts.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Pointers are almost never used in C#, but the concept is really very simple, compared to what they could be used for in C++. My point was that whatever you're used to, is not screwy. C# makes perfect sense to me, VB does not.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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The main argument of VB-defenders is that nobody can blame the language itself since it's just a language. But, as sombody had already said, "by their fruits ye shall know". So I cannot "name a few" habits, but I can point at bad VB projects, and that is a special kind of bad which is specific to VB. :doh:
Greetings - Gajatko Portable.NET is part of DotGNU, a project to build a complete Free Software replacement for .NET - a system that truly belongs to the developers.
gajatko wrote:
So I cannot "name a few" habits
You can't name any specific bad habit?
gajatko wrote:
I can point at bad VB projects
Like-wise for any programming language out there. My point is not to blame the language but the person using the language. I've seen good, elegant code written in VB.NET, C#, PHP, Java, and likewise just as bad of code written in the same said languages by some clown who picked up a for dummies style book and tries to be a programmer overnight.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Well, I thought I was the one who said this. This clown seemed to suggest that because it's possible to leak memory in C++, VB is always better.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
VB is always better
CG you had to work hard to get that interpretation.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Pointers are almost never used in C#, but the concept is really very simple, compared to what they could be used for in C++. My point was that whatever you're used to, is not screwy. C# makes perfect sense to me, VB does not.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
I presume you don't use both, I'm converting and naturally find what I am used to much easier. I still have to settle on a consistent layout so my C# is particularly ugly :-D.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Then have sympathy for us poor buggers who travelled the other path, started as excel macro writers (C64 doesn't count), side stepped into SuperBase (basic syntax), flirted with Delphi, got disgusted by 4GL stuff, even had a look under the hood of Notes and ended up with Access. The natural progression is to VB6/SQL Server and you end up in VB.Net. Now try changing to C#, and YOU think the vb syntax is screwy. As far as I'm concerned a pointer is a dog and I'm pleased to note they are rarely used in C#. I thought is would be simply a matter of learning a new syntax but there are a whole load of pitfalls in the differences between them. Still I have my utilities converted so at least I have the same tools and concepts.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
C64 doesn't count
Hey, hey, hey, Commodore Basic was fine for its time :laugh:
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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It's not a matter of what C# does better - it's a fact that VB instills bad programming habits, which alienates real programmers that have a little coding discipline.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Nah, your'e all just a bunch on evangellical language bigots. If we all used the same language there wouldn't be anyone for you to belittle and how boring would that be? What got up your nose recently that you had to pen your irritation with VB?
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I don't think you understood me at all.
Scott Barbour wrote:
Why should I reinvent the wheel every time and open my code to disastrous bugs such as memory leaks when I can get the job done faster without those pitfalls using VB?
Well, C++ programmers don't reinvent the wheel, nor do we suffer memory leaks that often, b/c we know how to code. I'm not sure how this remotely relates to anything I said tho. VB syntax is plain ugly to people used to elegant syntax. Syntax does not create memory leaks, poor code does.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
I consider descriptive syntax to be elegant. I know that I am not the only one that has looked at c/c++ code and asked "What kind of code block is this right curly brace ending?"
I don't claim to be a know it all, for I know that I am not...
I usually have an answer though.
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Pointers are almost never used in C#, but the concept is really very simple, compared to what they could be used for in C++. My point was that whatever you're used to, is not screwy. C# makes perfect sense to me, VB does not.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
C# makes perfect sense to me, VB does not.
Out of curiosity, what part of the VB syntax does not make sense? I am not too sure about the whole
With .... End Withbit, and sometimes my students have trouble with it. If there's one thing in the VB syntax I'd get rid of, that would be it."The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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gajatko wrote:
So I cannot "name a few" habits
You can't name any specific bad habit?
gajatko wrote:
I can point at bad VB projects
Like-wise for any programming language out there. My point is not to blame the language but the person using the language. I've seen good, elegant code written in VB.NET, C#, PHP, Java, and likewise just as bad of code written in the same said languages by some clown who picked up a for dummies style book and tries to be a programmer overnight.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
I agree. In my case one of the best code/design I have seen has been in VB6. Why? Because the programmer who did it was very good and believed in programming into teh language not program in a language.
Proud to be a CPHog user
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Mycroft Holmes wrote:
C64 doesn't count
Hey, hey, hey, Commodore Basic was fine for its time :laugh:
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
Sure but mixing up the tapes really pissed me off.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Nah, your'e all just a bunch on evangellical language bigots. If we all used the same language there wouldn't be anyone for you to belittle and how boring would that be? What got up your nose recently that you had to pen your irritation with VB?
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
What got up your nose recently that you had to pen your irritation with VB?
I think it stems from an article done in VB.NET that he was trying to convert the code to C#, and was ranting about the author and his programming practices.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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I try do avoid VB now days. But I really do miss how they handled the Select statement and case insensitive/auto correcting variables and keywords. C# aggravates the hell out of me with the prehistoric Switch statement and case sensitivity.
Case sensitivity - you just nailed the reason I took so long to start using C#, what a really f@#cking stupid idea. And not sticking the (); on the end of a statement, what you want me to type!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Mycroft Holmes wrote:
What got up your nose recently that you had to pen your irritation with VB?
I think it stems from an article done in VB.NET that he was trying to convert the code to C#, and was ranting about the author and his programming practices.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
Bloody hell, I hope it wasn't mine although I guess the author has already had an earfull from him.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I hate Visual Basic in all of its forms, and consider that anyone calling themselves a proponent of the language must have the intellect of a two-slice toaster.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I hate Visual Basic in all of its forms, and consider that anyone calling themselves a proponent of the language must have the intellect of a two-slice toaster.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001If Not VB Is Nothing Then What Is End If
Henry Minute Never read Medical books. You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain
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Bloody hell, I hope it wasn't mine although I guess the author has already had an earfull from him.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
It was this article[^]...
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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I agree. In my case one of the best code/design I have seen has been in VB6. Why? Because the programmer who did it was very good and believed in programming into teh language not program in a language.
Proud to be a CPHog user
One shop I worked at several years ago, did their VB6 coding quite well and that was due to strict in-house coding policies.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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It was this article[^]...
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
apparently his coding is no better than his form design and colour selection!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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apparently his coding is no better than his form design and colour selection!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Yep. I actually recall giving the guy a decent vote based more on concept than UI/code cosmetics. I must've had a few :beer:s that day when I voted it a five :rolleyes: :laugh: Beer, helping ugly GUI look better since {put-any-year-you-want-here}
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham