Obama's youth training. [modified]
-
Stan Shannon wrote:
If that is true why has there been no support for any number of highly qualified, competent and far more accomplished conservative black politicians from the African American community?
Because as far as you are concerned, support for Obama is prima facie evidence that they aren't conservative or qualified.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
Christian Graus wrote:
That doesn't change that the majority of people in prison, on death row, or generally in poverty, are black. Laws do not create fairness, they don't govern how people act day to day.
Actually 57% of all those executed in the US since 1976 were white. Another 9 percent were Latino or "other." So blacks, instead of being a majority, are not even one-third of those executed. It's hard to say which comes first in terms of poverty, the chicken (race) or the egg (region). The South has as many people living below the poverty level (whites and blacks) as any two other regions (i.e. Northeast, Midwest, West). Countrywide there are as many Whites and Asians living below the poverty line as there are either Blacks or Hispanics. (i.e. it's a three way tie.) Data Source: U.S. Census, Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2007, P60-235. Don't believe everything you read in "The Australian." There are, certainly, lots of reasons for blacks to celebrate the election of someone of mixed heritage. Just as Catholics took extra pride in JFK. But it should be noted that right now (according to what I heard on TV this a.m.), Obama has an 80% approval rating. If every Black (12% of the population) and every Hispanic (15%) is assumed to be in the approval category and also removed from consideration, he still would be receiving approval from a majority of the citizens of the United States. His election definitely is a milestone and one that is unlikely to be reached by Australia, the UK, or Canada in the near future. (I do agree that the parliamentary system is much more likely to work against equality in politics for minorities, as you said.) But, the U.S. is not the same country it was in 1960 or 1980. Race relations are anything but perfect (CSS being a perfect example of the kind of whiners who want to believe that being white gives them value) but believe it or not, there isn't a KKK meeting on every corner, even here in South Carolina.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Actually 57% of all those executed in the US since 1976 were white
OK, so it's only general prison population where it' a majority ?
Oakman wrote:
Don't believe everything you read in "The Australian."
*grin* I've heard this reported many times, but I don't read 'the australian'.
Oakman wrote:
he still would be receiving approval from a majority of the citizens of the United States.
Oh, I am sure he is approved of broadly. But the context here is a clip of a black woman who was hysterical about his chances of presidency. I was commenting on her specifically.
Oakman wrote:
there isn't a KKK meeting on every corner, even here in South Carolina.
I don't believe for a moment that racism is widespread, even in the south ( you're in South Carolina ? Lovely part of the world, I was there for a sales conference recently, sadly, I travel a lot of the US with my business partner at a pace that makes it worthless to try to find local CPians and hook up ). But, I am sure it exists underground, and find ready ears amongst the disenfranchised and plain hopeless, such as CSS. I don't even necessarily think he's a Klansman tho, although he's given me plenty of reason to believe he might be. I'm just resorting to broad insult b/c I am frustrated that he posts day after day, but cannot provide one shred of evidence to back up is claims, and more than that, that anyone would be dense enough to think that the snippets he posts from youtube constitute some sort of proof. Surely he has a resource that most losers do not have, in the opinions of the educated and intelligent people here. I don't expect him to kowtow to our brilliance, or anything dumb, but you'd hope if his issues are purely environmental, that some shred of logic or common sense would somehow get through to him
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
-
You wouldn't know proof if it hit you in the face like a ton of bricks.
Sure - just throw the insults. Apparently, you feel that this piece of wit and repartee qualifies as a response that proves you're right. However, until you can provide actual proof, what you're doing, is throwing your ignorance into sharp relief.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
-
Oakman wrote:
Actually 57% of all those executed in the US since 1976 were white
OK, so it's only general prison population where it' a majority ?
Oakman wrote:
Don't believe everything you read in "The Australian."
*grin* I've heard this reported many times, but I don't read 'the australian'.
Oakman wrote:
he still would be receiving approval from a majority of the citizens of the United States.
Oh, I am sure he is approved of broadly. But the context here is a clip of a black woman who was hysterical about his chances of presidency. I was commenting on her specifically.
Oakman wrote:
there isn't a KKK meeting on every corner, even here in South Carolina.
I don't believe for a moment that racism is widespread, even in the south ( you're in South Carolina ? Lovely part of the world, I was there for a sales conference recently, sadly, I travel a lot of the US with my business partner at a pace that makes it worthless to try to find local CPians and hook up ). But, I am sure it exists underground, and find ready ears amongst the disenfranchised and plain hopeless, such as CSS. I don't even necessarily think he's a Klansman tho, although he's given me plenty of reason to believe he might be. I'm just resorting to broad insult b/c I am frustrated that he posts day after day, but cannot provide one shred of evidence to back up is claims, and more than that, that anyone would be dense enough to think that the snippets he posts from youtube constitute some sort of proof. Surely he has a resource that most losers do not have, in the opinions of the educated and intelligent people here. I don't expect him to kowtow to our brilliance, or anything dumb, but you'd hope if his issues are purely environmental, that some shred of logic or common sense would somehow get through to him
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
I don't believe for a moment that racism is widespread, even in the south ( you're in South Carolina ? Lovely part of the world, I was there for a sales conference recently, sadly, I travel a lot of the US with my business partner at a pace that makes it worthless to try to find local CPians and hook up ).
Not to worry. Our society is actively working to make the US a beacon of new age moral rectitude by the aggressive elimination of all those who dare raise any question concerning the spiritual purifying certainty that we are all the same. In fact, our children are taught to chant that every day in school "We are all the same. We are all the same..."
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
Oakman wrote:
Actually 57% of all those executed in the US since 1976 were white
OK, so it's only general prison population where it' a majority ?
Oakman wrote:
Don't believe everything you read in "The Australian."
*grin* I've heard this reported many times, but I don't read 'the australian'.
Oakman wrote:
he still would be receiving approval from a majority of the citizens of the United States.
Oh, I am sure he is approved of broadly. But the context here is a clip of a black woman who was hysterical about his chances of presidency. I was commenting on her specifically.
Oakman wrote:
there isn't a KKK meeting on every corner, even here in South Carolina.
I don't believe for a moment that racism is widespread, even in the south ( you're in South Carolina ? Lovely part of the world, I was there for a sales conference recently, sadly, I travel a lot of the US with my business partner at a pace that makes it worthless to try to find local CPians and hook up ). But, I am sure it exists underground, and find ready ears amongst the disenfranchised and plain hopeless, such as CSS. I don't even necessarily think he's a Klansman tho, although he's given me plenty of reason to believe he might be. I'm just resorting to broad insult b/c I am frustrated that he posts day after day, but cannot provide one shred of evidence to back up is claims, and more than that, that anyone would be dense enough to think that the snippets he posts from youtube constitute some sort of proof. Surely he has a resource that most losers do not have, in the opinions of the educated and intelligent people here. I don't expect him to kowtow to our brilliance, or anything dumb, but you'd hope if his issues are purely environmental, that some shred of logic or common sense would somehow get through to him
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
OK, so it's only general prison population where it' a majority
Unfortunately, blacks are far more likely (7:1) than whites to commit crimes of violence. When they do, they are 3:1 more likely to use a gun than whites and 2:1 as likely to use a knife. A lot of this is because of the growth of youth gangs in this country. The Bloods and the Crips, two of the best know african-american street gangs, have somewhere around 50,000 members between them throughout the country. They are heavily involved with the drug trade as is the rival hispanic (Salvadorans, Hondurans, Guatemalans, and Nicaraguans) gang, MS13 which also has 50,000 members and a reputation for violence which I find worrisome. In spite of what you read, the police in this country do not stop investigating crimes if a DNA test show that the perp was white. However, some sort of perverted affirmative action program that limited the investigation and prosecution of violent crimes committed by black or hispanic gangs to some arbitrary percentage of violent white crime would be social suicide. The high ratio of blacks and hispanics in prison when compared to whites will only be reversed when/if we figure out how to handle the root causes of gang-related violence.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
Christian Graus wrote:
OK, so it's only general prison population where it' a majority
Unfortunately, blacks are far more likely (7:1) than whites to commit crimes of violence. When they do, they are 3:1 more likely to use a gun than whites and 2:1 as likely to use a knife. A lot of this is because of the growth of youth gangs in this country. The Bloods and the Crips, two of the best know african-american street gangs, have somewhere around 50,000 members between them throughout the country. They are heavily involved with the drug trade as is the rival hispanic (Salvadorans, Hondurans, Guatemalans, and Nicaraguans) gang, MS13 which also has 50,000 members and a reputation for violence which I find worrisome. In spite of what you read, the police in this country do not stop investigating crimes if a DNA test show that the perp was white. However, some sort of perverted affirmative action program that limited the investigation and prosecution of violent crimes committed by black or hispanic gangs to some arbitrary percentage of violent white crime would be social suicide. The high ratio of blacks and hispanics in prison when compared to whites will only be reversed when/if we figure out how to handle the root causes of gang-related violence.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
In spite of what you read, the police in this country do not stop investigating crimes if a DNA test show that the perp was white
I've never read that, nor would I believe it if I did. People claim that ?
Oakman wrote:
The high ratio of blacks and hispanics in prison when compared to whites will only be reversed when/if we figure out how to handle the root causes of gang-related violence.
I've read and seen some shows on the sort of racism that still occurs, I am thinking of one show on how hard it is for a black person to get a cab to stop for them, for example. Trouble is, this sort of profiling happens for a reason, people are in prison for a reason, it's not just racism, I am sure, but a cycle that keeps perpetuating, a cycle which I am sure has it's roots in slavery, in that some people have never lifted themselves out of poverty, or have lifted themselves by illegal means. It's a tough nut to crack, that's for sure.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
-
This is because you have decided that Tony Dungey is a flaming liberal? That Wesley Powell is a Muslim appeaser? And that even though it is the Blacks who are being blamed for voting in the anti-gay marriage law in California - the same Blacks who went 9:1 for Obama - they really are not good Christians? When did Armstrong Williams and JC Watts become left-wing? Naturally most dyed-in-the-wool conservatives, regardless of skin color, are lukewarm towards Obama at best. To single out Black Conservatives and demand that they put skin color before political commitment is a slight bit of racism, isn't it? Can't Blacks be allowed to stay true to their beliefs, or is that reserved for Whites?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
modified on Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:52 AM
-
Christian Graus wrote:
I don't believe for a moment that racism is widespread, even in the south ( you're in South Carolina ? Lovely part of the world, I was there for a sales conference recently, sadly, I travel a lot of the US with my business partner at a pace that makes it worthless to try to find local CPians and hook up ).
Not to worry. Our society is actively working to make the US a beacon of new age moral rectitude by the aggressive elimination of all those who dare raise any question concerning the spiritual purifying certainty that we are all the same. In fact, our children are taught to chant that every day in school "We are all the same. We are all the same..."
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Not to worry. Our society is actively working to make the US a beacon of new age moral rectitude by the aggressive elimination of all those who dare raise any question concerning the spiritual purifying certainty that we are all the same. In fact, our children are taught to chant that every day in school "We are all the same. We are all the same..."
The people that champion that philosophy will eventually succumb to the evidence that it is stupid and doesn't work; that's the scientific way of doing it. Remember science? That thing you constantly malign and pervert despite your dubious assertions that you trust in it?
-
Christian Graus wrote:
I don't believe for a moment that racism is widespread, even in the south ( you're in South Carolina ? Lovely part of the world, I was there for a sales conference recently, sadly, I travel a lot of the US with my business partner at a pace that makes it worthless to try to find local CPians and hook up ).
Not to worry. Our society is actively working to make the US a beacon of new age moral rectitude by the aggressive elimination of all those who dare raise any question concerning the spiritual purifying certainty that we are all the same. In fact, our children are taught to chant that every day in school "We are all the same. We are all the same..."
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
I'm not sure what your point is. You're decrying the death of racism ? I mean, that seems at odds with your character, but I just can't work out your point here...
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
-
Oakman wrote:
In spite of what you read, the police in this country do not stop investigating crimes if a DNA test show that the perp was white
I've never read that, nor would I believe it if I did. People claim that ?
Oakman wrote:
The high ratio of blacks and hispanics in prison when compared to whites will only be reversed when/if we figure out how to handle the root causes of gang-related violence.
I've read and seen some shows on the sort of racism that still occurs, I am thinking of one show on how hard it is for a black person to get a cab to stop for them, for example. Trouble is, this sort of profiling happens for a reason, people are in prison for a reason, it's not just racism, I am sure, but a cycle that keeps perpetuating, a cycle which I am sure has it's roots in slavery, in that some people have never lifted themselves out of poverty, or have lifted themselves by illegal means. It's a tough nut to crack, that's for sure.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
I've never read that, nor would I believe it if I did
Isn't that implied everytime someone brings up the preponderance of blacks in prison? Since the percentage of blacks arrested for violent crimes is consonant with the percentage that are sentenced, it can't be the judicial system, it has to be the police - or they have to be committing more than their share of violent crime.
Christian Graus wrote:
I am thinking of one show on how hard it is for a black person to get a cab to stop for them, for example.
Sure. And if you are white and go into a bar in Harlem, you may not get very good service, either. Hell, there's a deli run and staffed by blacks a few miles from here and they're known to serve blacks before whites who have been waiting longer. (I suspect that somewhere in New Jersey there's a deli run by Jews who. . . and a Chinese restaraunt that has prices written in Mandarin and English with the. . . etc. For all I know you get better service and lower prices in this country when you go to an Outback restaraunt than I do.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
Christian Graus wrote:
I've never read that, nor would I believe it if I did
Isn't that implied everytime someone brings up the preponderance of blacks in prison? Since the percentage of blacks arrested for violent crimes is consonant with the percentage that are sentenced, it can't be the judicial system, it has to be the police - or they have to be committing more than their share of violent crime.
Christian Graus wrote:
I am thinking of one show on how hard it is for a black person to get a cab to stop for them, for example.
Sure. And if you are white and go into a bar in Harlem, you may not get very good service, either. Hell, there's a deli run and staffed by blacks a few miles from here and they're known to serve blacks before whites who have been waiting longer. (I suspect that somewhere in New Jersey there's a deli run by Jews who. . . and a Chinese restaraunt that has prices written in Mandarin and English with the. . . etc. For all I know you get better service and lower prices in this country when you go to an Outback restaraunt than I do.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
For all I know you get better service and lower prices in this country when you go to an Outback restaraunt than I do.
I've never gone, I hear it's pretty average.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
-
Christian Graus wrote:
I don't believe for a moment that racism is widespread, even in the south ( you're in South Carolina ? Lovely part of the world, I was there for a sales conference recently, sadly, I travel a lot of the US with my business partner at a pace that makes it worthless to try to find local CPians and hook up ).
Not to worry. Our society is actively working to make the US a beacon of new age moral rectitude by the aggressive elimination of all those who dare raise any question concerning the spiritual purifying certainty that we are all the same. In fact, our children are taught to chant that every day in school "We are all the same. We are all the same..."
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
We are all the same
You are right we are not all the same. Republic tells us we are equal in rights but we are not robots all coming from a single assembly line.
-
Pierre Leclercq wrote:
think the US is a country where minorities are treated quite decently compared to other places.
I would hope so, too. But, still, for this to be visibly true in such a meaningful way, must surely mean a lot ?
Pierre Leclercq wrote:
How about a bush man elected to the presidency in Australia?
A bush man ? We don't have a president, nor do we even get a say in who leads us, directly, which probably contributes to making the system more conservative.
Pierre Leclercq wrote:
People from other countries actually had built profitable businesses for transfering human resources from Africa to America. And most of all, African people themselves were part of the business!! They eagerly captured men and women from nearby villages and sold them to the slavers for a profit!
I know all of this.
Pierre Leclercq wrote:
To my knowledge, the US has quite a number of laws, regulations and principles which already are meant to protect minorities and preserve diversity.
Yeah, but, so what ? That doesn't change that the majority of people in prison, on death row, or generally in poverty, are black. Laws do not create fairness, they don't govern how people act day to day.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
Laws do not create fairness, they don't govern how people act day to day
Ouch! This is a very pessimistic view of the system. To me it looks like you are well acclimated to our "pretty fair", "pretty rich", "pretty well policed" western societies. People obey laws, but it is not always republican laws. Might be religion laws (govern some very fine grained aspects of a life), gang laws, or hopefully legal laws. Unfortunately for some reason for some people, it is not as cool to obey the laws of the republic as to obey some foolish short sighted local street law. Might be a problem of perception, or education, or just the lack of a decent role model. I wish the election of this new president will make it look cool to be within the system for those who just do not see the point in being legal.
-
Christian Graus wrote:
So, is it any wonder that such people are excited to see one of their number rising to the highest job in the country and hoping that this could signal the end of the prejudice and unfair treatment they have endured for generations ?
If that is true why has there been no support for any number of highly qualified, competent and far more accomplished conservative black politicians from the African American community?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
highly qualified, competent and far more accomplished conservative black politicians
This is an interesting point. I wonder how Condie would have fared, had she been interested?
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaAxmrAzeNI[^] Now that is obvious proof right there. There is your evidence you need Christan Grass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv1EKBsPedo&feature=related[^]
modified on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:17 PM
Seems like some parts of the USA have still not heard of the word hubris (let alone understood what it means).
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
-
Seems like some parts of the USA have still not heard of the word hubris (let alone understood what it means).
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
GuyThiebaut wrote:
Seems like some parts of the USA have still not heard of the word hubris (let alone understood what it means).
Let me see if I can use it in a sentence. The meaning of the "hubris" (preceding it with "the word" was a wee bit redundant, don't you think?) was demonstrated to the world by the British Empire which committed it daily for a couple of hundred years and left as its legacy most of the problems in the middle east that plague us today. How's that?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
Stan Shannon wrote:
highly qualified, competent and far more accomplished conservative black politicians
This is an interesting point. I wonder how Condie would have fared, had she been interested?
-
Well, to be honest, if you were willing to discuss your point of view, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. So long as you appear to be blinded by irrational beliefs with no shred of evidence, then you insult me, I'll insult you, b/c that seems to be all you're willing to entertain. You have actually admitted to being racist in the past, but I do agree that it's wrong to use the race card to deflect criticism. Obama should be as open to public criticism as any elected official.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
-
Why is this guy still allowed to post on these forums? Are there no rules for conduct and behavior?
EliottA wrote:
Are there no rules for conduct and behavior?
Of course there are[^] and Chris tried to enforce them but the little shit kept re-registering under a different name and branched out to writing his pissy little comments in the lounge. Chris either gave up or possibly made a deal to let him shit all over SB as long as he stayed out of the Lounge.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
Can you not think for yourself? I have giving you a ton of evidence and you just won't think. You can't draw your own conclusions, they are predefined.