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Human Rights

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  • J James Pullicino

    I think that you are mixing up 'human rights' and 'freedom of choice'. Drinking In The Sun Forgot Password?

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    David Wulff
    wrote on last edited by
    #24

    How? "surely human rights must by its very definition be identical for every human being". :confused:

    David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

    I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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    • J Janine

      Michael P Butler wrote: You should have the right to do what you like as long as exercising your rights doesn't intefer with the rights of others. I agree to some point. However there are exceptions. This summer one teacher didn't like his/hers (don't remember which one) neighbours sun bathing topless in their own yard. The teacher took some photographs for proof but got sued him-/herself for interfering the neighbours domestic peace. -Janetta

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      David Wulff
      wrote on last edited by
      #25

      Janetta wrote: took some photographs for proof I bet that's what they all say... :rolleyes:

      David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

      I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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      • L Londo

        There are rights, and there are basic human rights. There is the right to drive a car, and there is the right to live a life with dignity. There is the right to own a gun, and the right to reproduce. They are different things. One is a right granted by society, the other is a right granted by merely being alive. It's very much a case of apples and oranges. Basic human rights are sacred for every human being. Many throughout the world are denied them.

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        David Wulff
        wrote on last edited by
        #26

        I agree, but how do we make these people (David points in a 359.99 degree circle) understand this?

        David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

        I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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        • D David Wulff

          How? "surely human rights must by its very definition be identical for every human being". :confused:

          David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

          I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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          Russell Morris
          wrote on last edited by
          #27

          David Wulff wrote: How? "surely human rights must by its very definition be identical for every human being". If that is an invariant, then aren't all prisons and jails immoral? Wouldn't prisoners (still) have the same rights (to freedom, choice, etc...) as everyone else? -- Russell Morris "Have you gone mad Frink? Put down that science pole!"

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          • T Tomasz Sowinski

            John Morales wrote: it would be fun to own a working howitzer or piece of anti-aircraft artillery I like the idea. Having ICBM would be even better :) Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com

            Free your mind and your ass will follow.

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            Roger Wright
            wrote on last edited by
            #28

            Tomasz Sowinski wrote: Having ICBM would be even better Nah. The fuel is way too expensive, and the silo can screw up your septic tank. This Signature is Temporarily Out of Order

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            • R Roger Wright

              Tomasz Sowinski wrote: Having ICBM would be even better Nah. The fuel is way too expensive, and the silo can screw up your septic tank. This Signature is Temporarily Out of Order

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              Tomasz Sowinski
              wrote on last edited by
              #29

              I don't want these old Titan ICBMs. Since mid-sixties, they're using solid fuel exclusively. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com

              Free your mind and your ass will follow.

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              • L Londo

                There are rights, and there are basic human rights. There is the right to drive a car, and there is the right to live a life with dignity. There is the right to own a gun, and the right to reproduce. They are different things. One is a right granted by society, the other is a right granted by merely being alive. It's very much a case of apples and oranges. Basic human rights are sacred for every human being. Many throughout the world are denied them.

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                brianwelsch
                wrote on last edited by
                #30

                Why the arguement that anybody has a defined basic set of rights? Where did this definition come from? Why, because I have a need or a want; however basic to my survival, is my right to obtain or fulfill that granted by some philosophy? The question really is posed in a very selfish manner to begin with. The question, I think, should be phrased "What right do I have to impose my will on the world around me?" You have to impose on your world to simply survive, you cannot get around that, but you really have no right to do so. BW {insert witty/thought-provoking saying here}

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                • B brianwelsch

                  Why the arguement that anybody has a defined basic set of rights? Where did this definition come from? Why, because I have a need or a want; however basic to my survival, is my right to obtain or fulfill that granted by some philosophy? The question really is posed in a very selfish manner to begin with. The question, I think, should be phrased "What right do I have to impose my will on the world around me?" You have to impose on your world to simply survive, you cannot get around that, but you really have no right to do so. BW {insert witty/thought-provoking saying here}

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                  David Wulff
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #31

                  brianwelsch wrote: The question really is posed in a very selfish manner to begin with Which question? :~

                  David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

                  I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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                  • R Russell Morris

                    David Wulff wrote: How? "surely human rights must by its very definition be identical for every human being". If that is an invariant, then aren't all prisons and jails immoral? Wouldn't prisoners (still) have the same rights (to freedom, choice, etc...) as everyone else? -- Russell Morris "Have you gone mad Frink? Put down that science pole!"

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                    David Wulff
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #32

                    Don't confuse human rights with the rights our societies give us.

                    David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

                    I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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                    • D David Wulff

                      brianwelsch wrote: The question really is posed in a very selfish manner to begin with Which question? :~

                      David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

                      I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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                      brianwelsch
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #33

                      Not your original one, specifically. But overall it seems we're asking "What rights do we have as human beings?" Did I miss the topic? BW {insert witty/thought-provoking saying here}

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                      • L Lost User

                        <rant>Yes, it is a common way of thinking, howvewr, some people have a funny idea of what is a "human right". For example, I absolutely abhor fox-hunting - in fact, I think killing any animal in the name of "sport" or "pleasure" is wrong. In the UK, the "Countryside Alliance" considers it a human right for their members to go out and kill foxes for the hell of it. This is NOT a human right and it really f***ing annoys me when people try to justify their practises by making us think it is some God given birthright. There are some basic human rights that everyone should have but the freedom to kill animals "because it's traditional" isn't one of them. The same can be said for many things - gun ownership included (no flames please!) - the freedom to own weapons is not a human right. Gun ownership may be a constitutional right in the USA, but that doesn't make it a human right, etc.</rant>

                        Faith. Believing in something you *know* isn't true.

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                        Lost User
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #34

                        Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: Gun ownership may be a constitutional right in the USA, but that doesn't make it a human right, etc True, but look at it from a different perspective. I would say the ability to defend yourself against harm is a human right. In the US Constitution and nearly every other civilized national constitution they list "Life" as the ultimate human right. IMO, by association, defending your life is also a human right. No?

                        Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap

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                        • T Tomasz Sowinski

                          I don't want these old Titan ICBMs. Since mid-sixties, they're using solid fuel exclusively. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com

                          Free your mind and your ass will follow.

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                          Roger Wright
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #35

                          You should be able to get a good deal on practically new Peacekeepers. They shut them down before we finished planting all 100 of them, so they should be in great shape. Let them warm up for 12 hours or so, then calibrate the gyros and you should be good to go. This Signature is Temporarily Out of Order

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                          • B brianwelsch

                            Not your original one, specifically. But overall it seems we're asking "What rights do we have as human beings?" Did I miss the topic? BW {insert witty/thought-provoking saying here}

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                            David Wulff
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #36

                            brianwelsch wrote: Did I miss the topic? No, I just wasn't entirely sure which angle you were coming form.

                            David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

                            I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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                            • D David Wulff

                              brianwelsch wrote: Did I miss the topic? No, I just wasn't entirely sure which angle you were coming form.

                              David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

                              I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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                              brianwelsch
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #37

                              I know that in order to live together as a civilization, we need to have "rights" defined, if not as a whole species, at least per society. My only point is really, that I don't believe we have any naturally defined set of rights. I feel it's a misnomer. added later **right:**Conforming with or conformable to justice, law, or morality I don't think I'm expressing myself correctly here BW {insert witty/thought-provoking saying here}

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                              • B brianwelsch

                                I know that in order to live together as a civilization, we need to have "rights" defined, if not as a whole species, at least per society. My only point is really, that I don't believe we have any naturally defined set of rights. I feel it's a misnomer. added later **right:**Conforming with or conformable to justice, law, or morality I don't think I'm expressing myself correctly here BW {insert witty/thought-provoking saying here}

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                                David Wulff
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #38

                                I agree, though by "human rights" I take that to mean rights offered to our entire species nonexlcusive.

                                David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

                                I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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                                • L Lost User

                                  Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: Gun ownership may be a constitutional right in the USA, but that doesn't make it a human right, etc True, but look at it from a different perspective. I would say the ability to defend yourself against harm is a human right. In the US Constitution and nearly every other civilized national constitution they list "Life" as the ultimate human right. IMO, by association, defending your life is also a human right. No?

                                  Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap

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                                  Lost User
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #39

                                  Mike Mullikin wrote: I would say the ability to defend yourself against harm is a human right. With extreme predujice if necessary eh? ;) Mike Mullikin wrote: IMO, by association, defending your life is also a human right. You could also argue that if the government allows people to own guns, which are then used to kill, they have violated the victims human rights. The argument can work both ways, depending on your personal POV. However, I think that arming everyone creates far more problems than it solves and using self-defence as an excuse still doesn't make the right to own arms a human right in my book.

                                  Faith. Believing in something you *know* isn't true.

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                                  • D David Wulff

                                    I agree, though by "human rights" I take that to mean rights offered to our entire species nonexlcusive.

                                    David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

                                    I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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                                    brianwelsch
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #40

                                    Taking it from the top. ;) Yes, I think those issues that you mentioned originally are commonly thought to be rights that should not be taken away. The thought I guess being that, we each have a right to ourselves and a place to call home, as well as the right to protect both. :-D BW {insert witty/thought-provoking saying here}

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                                    • R Roger Wright

                                      I believe that I have the absolute right to execute anyone who intends me or a loved one harm, and who possesses (or can reasonably be assumed to have) the means to do so. The first use of violence against another human being is always wrong, and it is always correct to repel it with whatever force is necesssary. How much is "necessary" is a moral decision, and cannot be second guessed by any third party not faced with making the life and death decision. Killing in defense of property is a more difficult question, but some rules of thumb are available. Is it likely that the perp will harm someone in the process? Is it likely that a success once will lead to more such trangressions in the future, possibly in more bold style and with greater likelihood for harm to another human being? Again, judgement is called for, and very often deadly force is appropriate. It may even be a duty. In my philosophy, time is my only resource - I was born with a certain unknowable allottment of hours, and nothing I can do will increase that number. Throughout my life I traded some of my time in exchange for skills, and using those skills, I traded even more time earning a wage with which to buy the things I need and want to own. I have, in essence, banked my limited time for future enjoyment, and invested it in the goods I possess. Anyone who steals from me, steals an irreplaceable part of my life, and any person with so little regard for others must be assumed to be equally capable of stealing all of it. That is a capital crime, and extends the meaning of theft to the point that it becomes my right to be the sole judge, jury, and executioner. The flip side of that philosophy, of course, is that it is also my responsibility to make wise judgements - not always a simple matter. In my life I have never attacked another human being - not even a schoolyard fight - as I have always believed that violence is irrational. Beating someone up does nothing to improve my value, and gaining agreement with my ideas by threatening force doesn't make my ideas any more valid. I don't understand the mentality (or lack of any) that holds this viewpoint, though I know many who do. I was raised in a time when it was taken for granted that rights always have responsibilities attached; this seems to have disappeared from our society, and no amount of legislation is going to bring back the sense and order that was lost when it died. Ultimately, the choice of whether to kill or not in case of an attack or breakin is mine, and mine

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                                      Zyxil
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #41

                                      excellent description of noblesse oblige, Roger -John

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                                      • D David Wulff

                                        Everyone I have spoken too believes that everything they choose to do is thier human right, and they will fight vigerously to defend them. If they want to drink, it is their right. If they want to have sex, it is their right. If they want to own guns, it is their right. If they want to run around naked, it is their right... Is this a common way of thinking? :~

                                        David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

                                        I'm not schizophrenic, are we.

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                                        Lost User
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #42

                                        So your street is full of drunken streakers firing guns (hopefully) into the air ?:eek: Elaine (fluffy tigress emoticon) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?

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                                        • R Roger Wright

                                          You should be able to get a good deal on practically new Peacekeepers. They shut them down before we finished planting all 100 of them, so they should be in great shape. Let them warm up for 12 hours or so, then calibrate the gyros and you should be good to go. This Signature is Temporarily Out of Order

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                                          Tomasz Sowinski
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #43

                                          Roger Wright wrote: You should be able to get a good deal on practically new Peacekeepers You mean the MX? Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com

                                          Free your mind and your ass will follow.

                                          R 1 Reply Last reply
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