Speaking of socialists
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Stan Shannon wrote:
But government should not regulate or manage business itself.
You want business to police itself. That's like asking prisoners to police themselves. Its an answer but, in my opinion, a non-working answer.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
You want business to police itself.
I never said that. I said business decisions should be business decisions and not influenced in any way at all by political considerations. The government's only legitimate envolvment is when those decisions cross the line into actual criminal activity - thats policing. What you seem to want is not policing, it is fascism - that is, the corporation serving the interests of the state rather than its own business interests.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I'm saying minimal regulation.
What are your thoughts about "a little bit pregnant?" How about a treatise on "almost a virgin?"
Stan Shannon wrote:
But government should not regulate or manage business itself.
Why not? As long as it it done by representatives of the peepul? You trust these self-same reprepresentatives to manage everyone's bedroom activity - why not their boardroom activity? Seems to me more people get fucked in the boardroom than in the bedroom . .
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Why not? As long as it it done by representatives of the peepul? You trust these self-same reprepresentatives to manage everyone's bedroom activity - why not their boardroom activity? Seems to me more people get f***ed in the boardroom than in the bedroom . .
You have everything just ass backwards, Jon. Society is inherently stable when economics is free and personal behavior is subject of rules and regulations.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
And God should have created a more perfect planet, but he didn't.
God may or may not have invented the Earth, but, though I hate to destroy your illusions, God did not invent capitalism.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
God did not invent capitalism.
No, but just as with the natural world, it works best when left alone. You simply cannot improve upon it. It is as good as it gets.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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The Reckoning[^] In the past decade, China has invested upward of $1 trillion, mostly earnings from manufacturing exports, into American government bonds and government-backed mortgage debt. That has lowered interest rates and helped fuel a historic consumption binge and housing bubble in the United States. China, some economists say, lulled American consumers, and their leaders, into complacency about their spendthrift ways. Perhaps, Stan, this time it was the Marxists.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Perhaps, Stan, this time it was the Marxists.
More accurately the Maoists.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Do you cut and paste things you wrote earlier or is there a site called capitalismfordunces.com that you get your answers from? Either way, desperately repeating the same mantra when reading the WSJ gives the lie to everything you write, seems, imho, to be a waste of your time.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Everything I write is completely valid, Jon. There is no way to isolate the American economy from the rest of the world. It is impossible. There is no way to do it. No one is wise enough to achieve it. Either we are all going to live in free market splendor or we are going to wallow in collectivist squalor. There are no other options.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
You want business to police itself.
I never said that. I said business decisions should be business decisions and not influenced in any way at all by political considerations. The government's only legitimate envolvment is when those decisions cross the line into actual criminal activity - thats policing. What you seem to want is not policing, it is fascism - that is, the corporation serving the interests of the state rather than its own business interests.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
that is, the corporation serving the interests of the state rather than its own business interests.
So what is wrong, exactly, with business serving the country rather than the country serving business?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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73Zeppelin wrote:
Perhaps, Stan, this time it was the Marxists.
More accurately the Maoists.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
More accurately the Maoists.
Actually, I think the Chinese can, these days, be referred to as capitalists par extraordinaire. They are also a dictatorship, of course, and that they inherited from Mao (and a few thousand years of history.)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Everything I write is completely valid, Jon. There is no way to isolate the American economy from the rest of the world. It is impossible. There is no way to do it. No one is wise enough to achieve it. Either we are all going to live in free market splendor or we are going to wallow in collectivist squalor. There are no other options.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
No one is wise enough to achieve it. Either we are all going to live in free market splendor or we are going to wallow in collectivist squalor.
Yep. Now back in the 70's you would have gone on to explain that the Free Market was going to convert all the Chinese into Republicans, but that doesn't seem to have happened after all. You're as bad as the Global Warming nuts. "Unless things happen according to MY plan, the world will come to an end!" You are as funny as they are, too, but they have done far less to wreck the global economy than the people who agree -- or claim they do - with you. So tell me, Chicken Little, how will the sky start to fall?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Stan Shannon wrote:
that is, the corporation serving the interests of the state rather than its own business interests.
So what is wrong, exactly, with business serving the country rather than the country serving business?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
with business serving the country rather than the country serving business?
Because business serving the state is precisely what fascims is, or at least one fundamental element of it. I realize that you think you are free as long as you can do what ever you please with your penis, but I can assure you that the ultimately source of all true freedom is free market economics.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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JimmyRopes wrote:
More accurately the Maoists.
Actually, I think the Chinese can, these days, be referred to as capitalists par extraordinaire. They are also a dictatorship, of course, and that they inherited from Mao (and a few thousand years of history.)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
I think the Chinese can, these days, be referred to as capitalists par extraordinaire.
They can be referred to as "capitalists par extraordinaire" throughout a lot of their history. Go to any large city in the world and you will find a Chinatown because they have traveled the earth to trade for centuries.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Oakman wrote:
God did not invent capitalism.
No, but just as with the natural world, it works best when left alone. You simply cannot improve upon it. It is as good as it gets.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Oakman wrote:
Why not? As long as it it done by representatives of the peepul? You trust these self-same reprepresentatives to manage everyone's bedroom activity - why not their boardroom activity? Seems to me more people get f***ed in the boardroom than in the bedroom . .
You have everything just ass backwards, Jon. Society is inherently stable when economics is free and personal behavior is subject of rules and regulations.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Society is inherently stable when economics is free and personal behavior is subject of rules and regulations.
You bet, Stan. It was those damn homosexuals getting to be married in Massachusetts that caused the collapse of the economy, not all the cutbacks on regulation in the last quarter century. By the way, have you looked up embargo yet, or are you still claiming that Eisenhower was pursuing the same sort of economic suicide that your boy, Bush, has been? Hmmmmmm?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
I think the Chinese can, these days, be referred to as capitalists par extraordinaire.
They can be referred to as "capitalists par extraordinaire" throughout a lot of their history. Go to any large city in the world and you will find a Chinatown because they have traveled the earth to trade for centuries.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
Go to any large city in the world and you will find a Chinatown because they have traveled the earth to trade for centuries.
Go to Italy - once the gateway to the Orient - and you'll find nothing but Chinese food with tomato sauce poured over it.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
with business serving the country rather than the country serving business?
Because business serving the state is precisely what fascims is, or at least one fundamental element of it. I realize that you think you are free as long as you can do what ever you please with your penis, but I can assure you that the ultimately source of all true freedom is free market economics.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Because business serving the state is precisely what fascims is, or at least one fundamental element of it.
Fascism works quite well with capitalism, especially the redistribute-the-wealth-upwards society you seem to prefer. You seem to be mixing up democracy and capitalism - a common mistake among the petit bourgeois, I've noticed. But, in truth capitalism serves dictators just as well as elected heads of state. Just ask the Saudis. p.s. Why are you so concerned about what I do with my penis? It would appear that as long as I leave you and your wife alone, you need not be so jealous as to take my fun away.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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I know. The worst part is that I don't have time to get involved in the discussion until later. :sigh:
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Stan Shannon wrote:
No one is wise enough to achieve it. Either we are all going to live in free market splendor or we are going to wallow in collectivist squalor.
Yep. Now back in the 70's you would have gone on to explain that the Free Market was going to convert all the Chinese into Republicans, but that doesn't seem to have happened after all. You're as bad as the Global Warming nuts. "Unless things happen according to MY plan, the world will come to an end!" You are as funny as they are, too, but they have done far less to wreck the global economy than the people who agree -- or claim they do - with you. So tell me, Chicken Little, how will the sky start to fall?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
You're as bad as the Global Warming nuts.
I am a global warming nut. Here are some certainties in life that you can rely upon (aside from death and taxes, that is): 1) Business people are as likely to be crooks as anyone else, perhaps more so. 2) Business cycles go up and down. 3) Government bureaucrats cannot make business cycles go up. Under the best governance, they can only make them go down a little less dramatically for a short while. 4) If you dump hundreds of billions of tons of additional CO2 into your atmosphere, something is going to happen to the climate that probably will not be in your best interest.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Oakman wrote:
You're as bad as the Global Warming nuts.
I am a global warming nut. Here are some certainties in life that you can rely upon (aside from death and taxes, that is): 1) Business people are as likely to be crooks as anyone else, perhaps more so. 2) Business cycles go up and down. 3) Government bureaucrats cannot make business cycles go up. Under the best governance, they can only make them go down a little less dramatically for a short while. 4) If you dump hundreds of billions of tons of additional CO2 into your atmosphere, something is going to happen to the climate that probably will not be in your best interest.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
- Business people are as likely to be crooks as anyone else, perhaps more so.
Then the more reason to have a watchdog that has teeth
Stan Shannon wrote:
- Business cycles go up and down.
A measured cycle is of no good if it is not measured according to some standard. With relevant actions/reactions to minimize hurt.
Stan Shannon wrote:
- Government bureaucrats cannot make business cycles go up. Under the best governance, they can only make them go down a little less dramatically for a short while.
But to set the enforcible rules that govern business activities thus ensuring fairness, soundness, corporate culpabiity and compensation schemes for those hurt by bad practice or malpractice.
Stan Shannon wrote:
- If you dump hundreds of billions of tons of additional CO2 into your atmosphere, something is going to happen to the climate that probably will not be in your best interest.
Fat_Boy wouldn't agree with you. Anyhow, same thing with Business - just replace CO2 references with any number of financial investments that are not founded on bedrock
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Stan Shannon wrote:
- Business people are as likely to be crooks as anyone else, perhaps more so.
Then the more reason to have a watchdog that has teeth
Stan Shannon wrote:
- Business cycles go up and down.
A measured cycle is of no good if it is not measured according to some standard. With relevant actions/reactions to minimize hurt.
Stan Shannon wrote:
- Government bureaucrats cannot make business cycles go up. Under the best governance, they can only make them go down a little less dramatically for a short while.
But to set the enforcible rules that govern business activities thus ensuring fairness, soundness, corporate culpabiity and compensation schemes for those hurt by bad practice or malpractice.
Stan Shannon wrote:
- If you dump hundreds of billions of tons of additional CO2 into your atmosphere, something is going to happen to the climate that probably will not be in your best interest.
Fat_Boy wouldn't agree with you. Anyhow, same thing with Business - just replace CO2 references with any number of financial investments that are not founded on bedrock
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Then the more reason to have a watchdog that has teeth
No one is suggesting otherwise - just as long as all the watch dog does is watch and bark when needed, and only bites those who are actually doing something illegal.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
ensuring fairness, soundness, corporate culpabiity and compensation schemes for those hurt by bad practice or malpractice.
No, trying to do that is what is causing all the problems. Life ain't fair and cannot be made so, get used to it. The more authority that is given to government to make it fair, the more dysfunctional all of society will become.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Then the more reason to have a watchdog that has teeth
No one is suggesting otherwise - just as long as all the watch dog does is watch and bark when needed, and only bites those who are actually doing something illegal.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
ensuring fairness, soundness, corporate culpabiity and compensation schemes for those hurt by bad practice or malpractice.
No, trying to do that is what is causing all the problems. Life ain't fair and cannot be made so, get used to it. The more authority that is given to government to make it fair, the more dysfunctional all of society will become.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
No, trying to do that is what is causing all the problems. Life ain't fair and cannot be made so, get used to it. The more authority that is given to government to make it fair, the more dysfunctional all of society will become.
Kill or be killed isn't the answer howsoever much it reflects your Jeffersonian heritage.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
No, trying to do that is what is causing all the problems. Life ain't fair and cannot be made so, get used to it. The more authority that is given to government to make it fair, the more dysfunctional all of society will become.
Kill or be killed isn't the answer howsoever much it reflects your Jeffersonian heritage.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Kill or be killed isn't the answer howsoever much it reflects your Jeffersonian heritage.
No one is talking about kill or be killed, but life cannot be made fair and the harder you try to make it fair the greater the likelihood of reverting back to a kill or be killed society.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.