Kids & God
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Christian Graus wrote:
It's part of who I am, it's reflected in my actions at least some of the time
And who tells you what is right and wrong? Do you judge yourself? Are you qualified to do that? I seem to recall we shouldnt judge others. Does that mean we shouldnt judge ourselves too? Seems fair since we are supposed to treat others as ourselves.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
And who tells you what is right and wrong? Do you judge yourself? Are you qualified to do that?
The Bible tells me what God wants me to be, and everyone either lives according to no rules, or judges themselves, as to if we have lived up to the standards we choose to set.
fat_boy wrote:
seem to recall we shouldnt judge others.
Yes, if you take half a verse and ignore it's context, then Jesus said not to judge anyone.
fat_boy wrote:
Does that mean we shouldnt judge ourselves too?
I am always disappointed when people fail to even read the Bible, yet try to tie people in knots with it. Jesus said we need to judge using God's requirements rather than our own, if you read it properly. And yes, that applies to ourselves as well as others.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Do your son a favor and teach about it in his late teen age. Then it will be teaching, and not indoctrination.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
This is plain dumb. Sorry, but a parent has no choice but to raise a child with a belief system. You're asking him to pretend to be an atheist for 15 years. Hell, you're essentially asking him to BECOME an atheist, because kids learn far more from what they see their parents DO, than what they choose to SAY.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Then it will be teaching, and not indoctrination.
Telling kids there is no God is indoctrinating them to atheism. There's no difference.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
what do I tell him when he asks me where we all come from?
I'm not in position to tell you how to raise your children, but I can tell you what I would've done. I would not present my beliefs as facts. I would however explain why I believe why I hold my beliefs, and why I think they are valid. I happen to be an atheist, but I would not try to hide the fact from the child that there are other people with different opinions on how things came to be. In fact, I'm actually pretty interested in religion (the cultural aspects of it - the theology isn't what I'm after really). I wouldn't swear that I'd be completely unbiased, because then I would be lying. But I wouldn't push my beliefs as the ultimate truth, and that those who won't believe in it, will suffer for eternity. That will only cause confusion and anxiety as the child grows up. Or it could create another Adnan/Ilidiot. Who'd want that?
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
I would not present my beliefs as facts. I would however explain why I believe why I hold my beliefs, and why I think they are valid.
how is this possible ? I *think* what you mean is saying 'I believe there is a God because' rather that 'there's a god, don't ask why or you will go to hell, right ? Well, the former is surely more effective, as a form of indoctrination ? I mean, if you want to use those emotionally loaded terms ? I would say anyone who does the latter is both stupid, and probably doesn't know what they believe and why themselves.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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You should have made it clear that you weren't interested in the half-baked theories of people who don't have kids. Tell your kids what you believe and act on in your daily life. That's your job as a parent.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
A 5 for the only sensible answer on this thread.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Its a shame. Kids will believe anything they are told. It would be better to give an answer that is known, such as eggs and sperm, rather than guess.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
In all honesty though what do we truly know? I certainly believe that what you stated is correct, but I've never spent the time to actually go in and study in depth what is actually going on. Even if I were to do so I would be going in based on what others have said before me and using instruments that others have built and that I have to trust work correctly and so on and so forth. The only things that we can truly know is what our senses and experience tell us and even that can be deceptive or at times completely wrong. Ultimately it comes down to a matter of trust. Do I believe that this person is telling me the truth? Do I believe that they know what they are talking about?
fat_boy wrote:
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
If there is no god then you are completely correct in this. There is nothing wrong with mass murder. There is nothing wrong with torturing people for fun. The only things in life are avoiding pain and pleasing ourselves. We are simply organic pain collectors racing toward oblivion. Of course this makes an assumption that there is no god.
Some people sail through life on a bed of roses like a knife slicing through butter.
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fat_boy wrote:
And who tells you what is right and wrong? Do you judge yourself? Are you qualified to do that?
The Bible tells me what God wants me to be, and everyone either lives according to no rules, or judges themselves, as to if we have lived up to the standards we choose to set.
fat_boy wrote:
seem to recall we shouldnt judge others.
Yes, if you take half a verse and ignore it's context, then Jesus said not to judge anyone.
fat_boy wrote:
Does that mean we shouldnt judge ourselves too?
I am always disappointed when people fail to even read the Bible, yet try to tie people in knots with it. Jesus said we need to judge using God's requirements rather than our own, if you read it properly. And yes, that applies to ourselves as well as others.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
I decided to give you a five because it is so rare to actually meet someone that reads the Bible rather than just skimming it or taking what their pastor/preacher/reverend/etc said.
Some people sail through life on a bed of roses like a knife slicing through butter.
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I so wanted to make a really crude joke out of this but, instead, happy new year.
digital man wrote:
I so wanted to make a really crude joke out of this but ...
Go ahead, this is the soapbox. :-D
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
You should have made it clear that you weren't interested in the half-baked theories of people who don't have kids. Tell your kids what you believe and act on in your daily life. That's your job as a parent.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Holding my nose and voting "5" in the SoapBox.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
what do I tell him when he asks me where we all come from?
Apes. :doh:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
This is plain dumb. Sorry, but a parent has no choice but to raise a child with a belief system. You're asking him to pretend to be an atheist for 15 years. Hell, you're essentially asking him to BECOME an atheist, because kids learn far more from what they see their parents DO, than what they choose to SAY.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Then it will be teaching, and not indoctrination.
Telling kids there is no God is indoctrinating them to atheism. There's no difference.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
you're essentially asking him to BECOME an atheist
What, not telling your kids about Gods before they are in their teens is atheist indoctrination? :confused:
Cheers, Vıkram.
Stand up to be seen. Speak up to be heard. Shut up to be appreciated.
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In all honesty though what do we truly know? I certainly believe that what you stated is correct, but I've never spent the time to actually go in and study in depth what is actually going on. Even if I were to do so I would be going in based on what others have said before me and using instruments that others have built and that I have to trust work correctly and so on and so forth. The only things that we can truly know is what our senses and experience tell us and even that can be deceptive or at times completely wrong. Ultimately it comes down to a matter of trust. Do I believe that this person is telling me the truth? Do I believe that they know what they are talking about?
fat_boy wrote:
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
If there is no god then you are completely correct in this. There is nothing wrong with mass murder. There is nothing wrong with torturing people for fun. The only things in life are avoiding pain and pleasing ourselves. We are simply organic pain collectors racing toward oblivion. Of course this makes an assumption that there is no god.
Some people sail through life on a bed of roses like a knife slicing through butter.
Alduin wrote:
There is nothing wrong with mass murder. There is nothing wrong with torturing people for fun.
You certainly don't need religion or god(s) to figure out why these might be are generally considered wrong regardless of culture or religious background.
"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
modified on Friday, January 2, 2009 11:40 PM to unnuance it for Bassam.
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My sister-in-law told me that her 5 year old asked where we all came from and she said God created us, without going into too fine a detail, which he accepted. Although I do plan to teach my son about God, if he takes into it or not is up to him. However, when did those of you who mentioned God brought it up?
Ever since I can remember they encouraged faith, but not religion. My parents had different religions; one attended every week the other never. The only rule was not the Catholic church since my dad's side of the family came from the prot. part of Ireland. I went to several churches growing up and finally embraced being Jewish.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
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The main thing is not to get hung up about it, there's no rush.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
I would not present my beliefs as facts. I would however explain why I believe why I hold my beliefs, and why I think they are valid.
how is this possible ? I *think* what you mean is saying 'I believe there is a God because' rather that 'there's a god, don't ask why or you will go to hell, right ? Well, the former is surely more effective, as a form of indoctrination ? I mean, if you want to use those emotionally loaded terms ? I would say anyone who does the latter is both stupid, and probably doesn't know what they believe and why themselves.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
what do I tell him when he asks me where we all come from?
Apes. :doh:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
This is plain dumb. Sorry, but a parent has no choice but to raise a child with a belief system. You're asking him to pretend to be an atheist for 15 years. Hell, you're essentially asking him to BECOME an atheist, because kids learn far more from what they see their parents DO, than what they choose to SAY.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Then it will be teaching, and not indoctrination.
Telling kids there is no God is indoctrinating them to atheism. There's no difference.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
-
Alduin wrote:
There is nothing wrong with mass murder. There is nothing wrong with torturing people for fun.
You certainly don't need religion or god(s) to figure out why these might be are generally considered wrong regardless of culture or religious background.
"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
modified on Friday, January 2, 2009 11:40 PM to unnuance it for Bassam.
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My sister-in-law told me that her 5 year old asked where we all came from and she said God created us, without going into too fine a detail, which he accepted. Although I do plan to teach my son about God, if he takes into it or not is up to him. However, when did those of you who mentioned God brought it up?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
My sister-in-law told me that her 5 year old asked where we all came from and she said God created us, without going into too fine a detail, which he accepted.
Aren't kids great? They believe in all sorts of fairy tales.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
However, when did those of you who mentioned God brought it up?
I've let my wife handle those things since she and I don't agree on the whole God thing. However, I do plan to let my daughter know my opinion on the matter when I believe she's mature enough to decide for herself. For now, her mother's doing the deciding, which is fine by me.
"What if Jesus was gay? I'm not saying he was, but it wouldn't make him any worse. I mean, it could be -- he was a gentle guy, he never got married... every prayer ends with 'Ahhhh Men'." -- Bill Maher
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Oh he would love that. He'd either say "you're kidding" or go into a infinite-questions mode. What about pigs, horses, cows, etc.?
:laugh:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes