May the Farce be with you
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David Wulff wrote: Census forms are not dumb. Are too. :p David Wulff wrote: You should hold a British passport, therefore you are allowed immigration rights to a large part of the former Empire - pick a country with a policy you like and live their. Why should I move?!? Hardly fair, is it? David Wulff wrote: Very few people actually make the choice to hold faith - the majority of times it is their way of life that introduces them to faith. Religion is personal choice, whatever the circumstances. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ there. ________________________ http://www.webreaper.net
Mark Otway wrote: Are too. :p The census is certinaly not dumb - whether you are sticking out your tounge or not! ;P Mark Otway wrote: Why should I move?!? Hardly fair, is it? You don't have to move, but when you live in a community you should damn well expect to live by their rules. If I go to Texas and murder someone "ala passion" (or whatever the French call it) I would not expect to be tried in France and get off scot free. This again is where compromise and respect are needed. Mark Otway wrote: Religion is personal choice, whatever the circumstances. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ there. Rubbish! If a person has true faith in a religion then they will find it just as difficult to even conceive the possibility that they are wrong as you or I do to even conceive there could be a god.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.
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David Wulff wrote: As a society we should provide for the needs our fellow people, and if thier needs dictate a religious belief then it is our place to abide by that and provide accordingly. *That* is where the respect comes in. It can't work like that. As mentioned before, if I decide to worship money and prostitution, should I expect that society respect my beliefs and provide those things for me? Of course not. Respect has to go both ways. ________________________ http://www.webreaper.net
Damn this thread is getting hard to follow - all the posts are in line with each other now! :-D Mark Otway wrote: It can't work like that. As mentioned before, if I decide to worship money and prostitution, should I expect that society respect my beliefs and provide those things for me? Of course not. I won't even begin to say how ridiculous *your* analogy is, again, but suffice to say you are arguing a total non-issue with that one. With regards to way societies work, I beg to differ entirely. The very definition of a community is "a group of people living in the same locality and under the same government, combining sharing, participation, and fellowship". Mark Otway wrote: Respect has to go both ways. And it does.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.
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Mark Otway wrote: Are too. :p The census is certinaly not dumb - whether you are sticking out your tounge or not! ;P Mark Otway wrote: Why should I move?!? Hardly fair, is it? You don't have to move, but when you live in a community you should damn well expect to live by their rules. If I go to Texas and murder someone "ala passion" (or whatever the French call it) I would not expect to be tried in France and get off scot free. This again is where compromise and respect are needed. Mark Otway wrote: Religion is personal choice, whatever the circumstances. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ there. Rubbish! If a person has true faith in a religion then they will find it just as difficult to even conceive the possibility that they are wrong as you or I do to even conceive there could be a god.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.
David Wulff wrote: You don't have to move, but when you live in a community you should damn well expect to live by their rules. And those rules should never be questioned? Even if they're clearly dumb? ________________________ http://www.webreaper.net
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Damn this thread is getting hard to follow - all the posts are in line with each other now! :-D Mark Otway wrote: It can't work like that. As mentioned before, if I decide to worship money and prostitution, should I expect that society respect my beliefs and provide those things for me? Of course not. I won't even begin to say how ridiculous *your* analogy is, again, but suffice to say you are arguing a total non-issue with that one. With regards to way societies work, I beg to differ entirely. The very definition of a community is "a group of people living in the same locality and under the same government, combining sharing, participation, and fellowship". Mark Otway wrote: Respect has to go both ways. And it does.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.
David Wulff wrote: I won't even begin to say how ridiculous *your* analogy is, again, but suffice to say you are arguing a total non-issue with that one. Okay, here's a better example. If I am a satanist, how much respect do you think society will have for my religion then? Not much, I'd expect. What about if I'm in the UK or US, and proclaim myself as a member of Islamic Ji'had? The whole idea of respect for religious denominations is based on some spurious logic about a small group of people deciding what religion is acceptable and what isn't. It's illogical, irrational, and totally hypocritical. I am prepared to respect other peoples' religions, but I don't expect to have to fund them. I don't see that that's unreasonable.... And with that, I'm buggering off home. ;) ________________________ http://www.webreaper.net
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David Wulff wrote: You don't have to move, but when you live in a community you should damn well expect to live by their rules. And those rules should never be questioned? Even if they're clearly dumb? ________________________ http://www.webreaper.net
Oh go on then - time for one more. :) Mark Otway wrote: And those rules should never be questioned? Even if they're clearly dumb? Dumb to you maybe, but not dumb to others. There is nothing really to question here without creating a prejudice against yourself, which is the last thing anyone wants.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.
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David Wulff wrote: I won't even begin to say how ridiculous *your* analogy is, again, but suffice to say you are arguing a total non-issue with that one. Okay, here's a better example. If I am a satanist, how much respect do you think society will have for my religion then? Not much, I'd expect. What about if I'm in the UK or US, and proclaim myself as a member of Islamic Ji'had? The whole idea of respect for religious denominations is based on some spurious logic about a small group of people deciding what religion is acceptable and what isn't. It's illogical, irrational, and totally hypocritical. I am prepared to respect other peoples' religions, but I don't expect to have to fund them. I don't see that that's unreasonable.... And with that, I'm buggering off home. ;) ________________________ http://www.webreaper.net
Mark Otway wrote: The whole idea of respect for religious denominations is based on some spurious logic about a small group of people deciding what religion is acceptable and what isn't. It's illogical, irrational, and totally hypocritical. And that is entirely off the point. No small group of people is deciding what religion is acceptable and what isn't, the community you live in is deciding. One of the sideffects of a democracy is that people have the power - and rights - to control their own lives. If you live in a community, as I have already said, you live by its definition. You go on and respect and compromise yourself, but hold none and are prepared to give none for the basics of the community you live in. That is what is totally hypocritical. And yes, if your community was made up of satanists then your local authority would be obliged to provide core services for you - if not directly then indirectly. They need to know before they can make any changes though - this is one very important reason for the census, which is where politics and polcies cannot help. Mark Otway wrote: And with that, I'm buggering off home I said that quarter of an hour ago. :rolleyes:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.
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Mark Otway wrote: The biggest problem with all this is that the assumption is being made that people are lying on their census forms. Based on what? Nothing other than the fact that 'Jedi' is the name of a character in a well known movie. That is not the issue at all. It is not for the National Census to decide what is or is not false information - they must by law treat everything included on a valid form as fact, hence the results, but is is up to you to make sure you do not lie. And for very good reasons which I feel I have already covered in this thread. Mark Otway wrote: Why should my taxes pay for the fact that somebody else believes they're a yogic flyer, or whatever? It's not like unemployment or disability benefit. The government has a duty to govern us, and that in turn requires them to provide (either directly or indirectly) the services we request. If 1,000 people in a particular area state they are Christian when in fact they are not, then as far as the government is concerned they have an obligation to provide religious services for these people. If you still don't buy it, think in terms of medicine instead. If 1,000 people in a particular area state they have a vision impairment then the government has an obligation to provide services accordingly. Public passages and services would need to be modified accordingly, and probably local planning authorities would adjust their conditions as well. These things *do* make a difference. Mark Otway wrote: The fact of the matter is that religious denomination is a subjective decision made by people. So really it shouldn't be on the census at all. I disagree here - it is a very important piece of information to know. If not to cater for individual communities based on the people who actually live there, then from a national pov statistically. Race is another equally important piece of information to know for much the same reasons.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.
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Yeah but it gives us another chance to laugh at the Aussies. :-D Michael :-) Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana
Michael P Butler wrote: Yeah but it gives us another chance to laugh at the Aussies. I like your way of thinking Michael :-) Regards, Brian Dela :-)
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Not quite, this one has different than the BBC link.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.
David Wulff wrote: Not quite, this one has different than the BBC link. Basically the same content though :-) Regards, Brian Dela :-)
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David Wulff wrote: Race is another equally important piece of information to know for much the same reasons. You're not suggesting that the government should treat people differently depending on their race?!? Kevin
Kevin Glover wrote: You're not suggesting that the government should treat people differently depending on their race?!? Not treat them differently - of course not - but they will need to provide different services that the different raced communities require.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.
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David Wulff wrote: Not quite, this one has different than the BBC link. Basically the same content though :-) Regards, Brian Dela :-)
Brian Delahunty wrote: Basically the same content though Only in that it mentioned the three words: Australia, 40,000 and Jedi. :|
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.