Regime Change Revisited
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Oakman wrote:
a faithful ally, at least as much as the UK
Well, neither of us has any other alternative. Britain wants an 'independent' nuclear deterrent. Israel wants continued existence. Your wish is our command!
Bob Emmett
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Are you also going to demand that the Normans go back to France and leave Britain to the Celts? Should all the Huns in Hungary head back towards Mongolia? Should Rome be given back to the Etruscans? For that matter should the larger area known as Palestine be restored to the decendants of the countries of Judea and Gallilee?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
I am not suggesting that Israelis be moved anywhere, only suggesting that the UN pencil could be inverted and the arbitrary line (drawn within living memory - unlike your examples) erased.
Oakman wrote:
demand that the Normans go back to France
No, Scandinavia.
Oakman wrote:
leave Britain to the Celts
Certainly not! The Celts would be sent packing to the Iberian peninsular. Picts rule, OK!
Bob Emmett
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Bob Emmett wrote:
That's because they had no resources that you required
You really don't know much about WWII, do you? Most of the stars of both the Russian and American space programs were German. Patton was diverted fron going into Berlin long before the Russians could get there so he could grab as much of the industrial and scientific real estate as possible.
Bob Emmett wrote:
As you said: it's just Muslims fighting Muslims
But I do care. I have longed believed that the U.S. would be better off focussing its attention on itself rather than trying to play world cop. (You are a perfect example of the kind of presumably educated person who blames the U.S. when it does try to make the world better and when it doesn't.) Since not trying to keep shi'a and sunni from killing each other is cheaper and saves American lives, I stongly prefer not interferring in Middle Eastern countries' death matches. However, I'm an equal opportunity ignorer. It doesn't matter whether they're just arabs, or just europeans, or just asians, they shouldn't be the U.S's problem.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
You really don't know much about WWII, do you?
No, I was hiding under the stairs as the bombers came over. :)
Oakman wrote:
Most of the stars of both the Russian and American space programs were German.
I was referring to physical resources, not intellectual. You assume that I am educated, and yet imply that I am unaware of Tom Lehrer! "Nazi, Schmazi", says Wernher von Braun.
Oakman wrote:
You are a perfect example of the kind of presumably educated person who blames the U.S. when it does try to make the world better and when it doesn't.
Not true. And but poorly educated, I'm afraid.
Bob Emmett
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Oakman wrote:
You really don't know much about WWII, do you?
No, I was hiding under the stairs as the bombers came over. :)
Oakman wrote:
Most of the stars of both the Russian and American space programs were German.
I was referring to physical resources, not intellectual. You assume that I am educated, and yet imply that I am unaware of Tom Lehrer! "Nazi, Schmazi", says Wernher von Braun.
Oakman wrote:
You are a perfect example of the kind of presumably educated person who blames the U.S. when it does try to make the world better and when it doesn't.
Not true. And but poorly educated, I'm afraid.
Bob Emmett
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
But the Gazan's elected Hamas.
Only because of the rampant corruption of Fatah X|
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
Trollslayer wrote:
Only because of the rampant corruption of Fatah
Correct. The assumption was that anything was better than Fatah. Boy were they wrong.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
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Bob Emmett wrote:
You assume that I am educated
Presumed, not assumed.
Bob Emmett wrote:
I am unaware of Tom Lehrer
Better you should know about Arthur Rudolph.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Bob Emmett wrote:
Your wish is our command!
Oh please.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Bob Emmett wrote:
Your wish is our command
Oakman wrote:
Oh please.
Since 1956, how often have we stood up to the USA? Harold Macmillan used the analogy of Britain being to USA as Greece was to the Roman Empire. This was taken as referring to Rome's supposed reliance upon Greek learning, culture, and experience of Empire. But Macmillan had had a classical education, and knew that the reality of the relationship was subservience to a greater power that had its own agenda.
Bob Emmett
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Trust you are not suggesting that EVERY Muslim is a terrorist or a potential terrorist, as you could not be more wrong. Just as wrong as MacArthy was in suggesting that those with left-learning tendencies were Communists. You have Democrats and Republicans in your Senate. Some of them are die-hard Capitalists, but they are not ALL die-hard Capitalists so it would also be inappropriate to say that ALL Americans are die-hard Capitalists as that would be just as wrong as suggesting that all of Islam's followers are radicals. Thus I contend my comments were not meaningless nor vapid.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Trust you are not suggesting that EVERY Muslim is a terrorist or a potential terrorist, as you could not be more wrong.
It is absolutly meaningless to suppose anything one way or another on the issue. Their society, their culture, their religion is generating international terrorism. That is the issue, that is the only issue. I have absolutely no power at all to solve their problems. Only they can do that. All I can do is expect to be defended against their lunatics by what ever means necessary.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Just as wrong as MacArthy was in suggesting that those with left-learning tendencies were Communists.
McCarthy was absolutey correct. The USSR had tremendous influence on both our government and other institutions and had for a very long time. He is one of my heroes.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
You have Democrats and Republicans in your Senate. Some of them are die-hard Capitalists, but they are not ALL die-hard Capitalists so it would also be inappropriate to say that ALL Americans are die-hard Capitalists as that would be just as wrong as suggesting that all of Islam's followers are radicals.
Are you comparing capitalism to terrorism?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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I am not suggesting that Israelis be moved anywhere, only suggesting that the UN pencil could be inverted and the arbitrary line (drawn within living memory - unlike your examples) erased.
Oakman wrote:
demand that the Normans go back to France
No, Scandinavia.
Oakman wrote:
leave Britain to the Celts
Certainly not! The Celts would be sent packing to the Iberian peninsular. Picts rule, OK!
Bob Emmett
Bob Emmett wrote:
The Celts would be sent packing to the Iberian peninsular. Picts rule, OK!
When the hell did that happen?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
There is absolutely no difference what so ever in Israel defending itself today and Britain defending itself in 1940.
Britain was a established sovereign country that had declared war on Germany. Germany was entitled to defend itself against the might of the British Empire. Modern Israel is an invented country, arbitrarily imposed by the UN drawing a line on the map of Palestine, and largely populated by immigrants of the Jewish faith. To some extent I can understand the UN wishing to provide a Jewish homeland (most of the Nations had turned away Jews seeking refuge from the pogroms and the holocaust, possibly this salved their collective conscience) but the acts of terrorism between Arabs and Jews in the preceding decades should have given them pause.
Bob Emmett
Bob Emmett wrote:
Modern Israel is an invented country, arbitrarily imposed by the UN drawing a line on the map of Palestine, and largely populated by immigrants of the Jewish faith.
An invented country that promotes western values and principles such as democracy and liberty. They are an avowed allie. To abandon them or to in any way weaken their position against a culture that has no respect for those principles would be the greatest betrayal of our civilization in all of history.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Trust you are not suggesting that EVERY Muslim is a terrorist or a potential terrorist, as you could not be more wrong.
It is absolutly meaningless to suppose anything one way or another on the issue. Their society, their culture, their religion is generating international terrorism. That is the issue, that is the only issue. I have absolutely no power at all to solve their problems. Only they can do that. All I can do is expect to be defended against their lunatics by what ever means necessary.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Just as wrong as MacArthy was in suggesting that those with left-learning tendencies were Communists.
McCarthy was absolutey correct. The USSR had tremendous influence on both our government and other institutions and had for a very long time. He is one of my heroes.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
You have Democrats and Republicans in your Senate. Some of them are die-hard Capitalists, but they are not ALL die-hard Capitalists so it would also be inappropriate to say that ALL Americans are die-hard Capitalists as that would be just as wrong as suggesting that all of Islam's followers are radicals.
Are you comparing capitalism to terrorism?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Bob Emmett wrote:
Your wish is our command
Oakman wrote:
Oh please.
Since 1956, how often have we stood up to the USA? Harold Macmillan used the analogy of Britain being to USA as Greece was to the Roman Empire. This was taken as referring to Rome's supposed reliance upon Greek learning, culture, and experience of Empire. But Macmillan had had a classical education, and knew that the reality of the relationship was subservience to a greater power that had its own agenda.
Bob Emmett
Bob Emmett wrote:
Rome's supposed reliance
You think otherwise?
Bob Emmett wrote:
reality of the relationship was subservience to a greater power that had its own agenda
It might be worthwhile to note that the Eastern Roman Empire which thought of itself not as "Byzantine" but as Roman and which lasted intact throughout the dark ages and was not extinguished until 40 years before Columbus bumped into Central America on his way to India, spoke not Latin, but Greek. Greece, of course, was never a power, though Athens did briefly rule the Aegean. And yet its civilization not only influenced both the Macedonians and the Romans, but Britain and America, both.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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digital man wrote:
The Palestinians in Gaza? Hardly captive:
digital man wrote:
Starved?
"the Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything out. They let in a small trickle of food, fuel and medicine – but not enough for survival. Weisglass quipped that the Gazans were being "put on a diet". According to Oxfam, only 137 trucks of food were allowed into Gaza last month to feed 1.5 million people. The United Nations says poverty has reached an "unprecedented level." When I was last in besieged Gaza, I saw hospitals turning away the sick because their machinery and medicine was running out. I met hungry children stumbling around the streets, scavenging for food." http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-true-story-behind-this-war-is-not-the-one-israel-is-telling-1214981.html[^]
digital man wrote:
Brutal slaughter?
"As Israeli warplanes continue to bomb Gaza, attention is turning to the role of American-made weapons in the deadly attacks, which have now killed over 400 and wounded 2000, including many civilians." http://rawstory.com/news/2008/CNN_U.S._weapons_create_Gaza_civilian_0102.html[^]
digital man wrote:
Apart from the fact that is not the correct quote
whos quoting?
digital man wrote:
make peace with people that don't want peace? They just want to eradicate Israel.
we should remember that last week, Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable comp
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Stan Shannon wrote:
He is one of my heroes.
You have no shame, either.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
You have no shame, either
I don't let the leftist define for me who my heroes should be. McCarthy was absolutely correct. He was trying to defend his nation from a very real threat.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Trust you are not suggesting that EVERY Muslim is a terrorist or a potential terrorist, as you could not be more wrong.
It is absolutly meaningless to suppose anything one way or another on the issue. Their society, their culture, their religion is generating international terrorism. That is the issue, that is the only issue. I have absolutely no power at all to solve their problems. Only they can do that. All I can do is expect to be defended against their lunatics by what ever means necessary.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Just as wrong as MacArthy was in suggesting that those with left-learning tendencies were Communists.
McCarthy was absolutey correct. The USSR had tremendous influence on both our government and other institutions and had for a very long time. He is one of my heroes.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
You have Democrats and Republicans in your Senate. Some of them are die-hard Capitalists, but they are not ALL die-hard Capitalists so it would also be inappropriate to say that ALL Americans are die-hard Capitalists as that would be just as wrong as suggesting that all of Islam's followers are radicals.
Are you comparing capitalism to terrorism?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Hamas offered a cease-fire? You need some references for that one.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
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Bob Emmett wrote:
The Celts would be sent packing to the Iberian peninsular. Picts rule, OK!
When the hell did that happen?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Bob Emmett wrote:
Modern Israel is an invented country, arbitrarily imposed by the UN drawing a line on the map of Palestine, and largely populated by immigrants of the Jewish faith.
An invented country that promotes western values and principles such as democracy and liberty. They are an avowed allie. To abandon them or to in any way weaken their position against a culture that has no respect for those principles would be the greatest betrayal of our civilization in all of history.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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According to DNA mapping, about 6000 years ago. (Something I read 2 or 3 years ago.)
Bob Emmett
The celts left for Iberia 6000 years ago? The celtic culture didn't even exist 6000 years ago. DNA studies indicate the moden populations of north western europe remain basically the origianl aboriginal population. Besides, there is some doubt about who precisely the Picts were - they may well have been an early celtic people themselves.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
promotes western values and principles such as democracy and liberty
Plus socialism and communism. Which of the western values and principles did Zionist terrorists promote?
Bob Emmett
Bob Emmett wrote:
Which of the western values and principles did Zionist terrorists promote?
If that was a problem it should have been dealt with than. It wasn't. The question is do we now abandon a nation that promotes our basic western political principles in the face of violent coercion?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.