actually, who screwed the economy

Oakman

oilFactotum wrote:

This did not happen overnight.

Nor did it happen in just the last eight. It can be traced back to the Clinton years quite easily. Which is not to say that the Bush Aministration's commitment to deregulation did not exacerbate the problem tremendously. Ultimately it goes back to Nixon who destroyed the last connection between a dollar bill and anything of value. Once money was money only because the Secretary of the Treasury said it was, the American economy was royally frucked.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Oakman

Mike Gaskey wrote:

down playing anything a Democrat does wrong while shouting from the roof tops when a Republican does the same thing.

That doesn't mean the Republicans should get a pass, too, but that the Democrats should be held to a higher standard, right? It appears to me that both parties cooperated to create this mess and they both will cooperate to make sure that whatever changes there are, Government will have more power over our lives, and we will have less. Demmicans and Republicrats - birds of a feather fluck the public together.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Ilion

Mike Gaskey wrote:

it started with Clinton but I thought your head would explode if I brought that up.

I goes back at least as far as the Carter years; it was ramped up under Clinton.

MrPlankton

Sahir Shah wrote:

things are getting worse day by day.

How are things getting worse? What's happening over there?

MrPlankton

Multicultural Diversity Training, the new Socialist Reeducation Camp-light.

Mike Gaskey

Oakman wrote:

That doesn't mean the Republicans should get a pass, too, but that the Democrats should be held to a higher standard, right?

Who said that? You commented on my answer to a question posited regarding why Democrats now control congress, my answer was accurate.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

oilFactotum

Mike Gaskey wrote:

it started with Clinton

No, it started before that, but so what? Bush and the R's had the last 8 years to to something about it and did not. It is simply absurd to put the blame on a couple of democrats. While completely ignoring the fact that it was the big players who leveraged their securitized debt 25 fold. No one forced them to. They had the money and the power.

BoneSoft

oilFactotum wrote:

Bush and the R's had the last 8 years to to something about it and did not.

And Democrats had no choice to do something about it?

oilFactotum wrote:

It is simply absurd to put the blame on a couple of democrats.

Gee, blaming the bastards that started it, those who kicked it into overdrive, and those who blocked reform makes a lot more sense than laying it all at the feet of the guy running the show most recently (only because you and your buddies are intent on demonizing GWB). It's at least equally absurd to dismiss the guilt of those Democrats just so you can pin it all on the current Republican in office. Fine, Bush could have done something about it. No argument. (Of course Bush and McCain both tried to reform FMs and were blocked by Frank, Dodd, Waters, et al) But that late in the game, how much good could they have done? What about Clinton? He could have done something about it. Instead he decided to give it nitros tanks and spinning rims. But to you it's all Bush's fault? You are so far out in left field there's no point in even attempting to take you seriously.

Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.

Rob Graham

You forgot two 3: 1. Pauson, Sec. Treasury, who slept at the wheel, panicked when he couldn't diqguise/ avoid seeing the investment bank collapse any longer, and in his panic FUDed Bush, Congress, and anyone who would listen into throwing $700B borrowed taxpayer funds down the rathole gaurded by his buddies, neglecting of course, the rathole belonging to his long time competitors at Lehman, who he just summarily executed. Spent the first 350B in record time, on who knows what, but certainly not what he said he needed it for. 2. Bernake - Chm Federal Reserve - who kept interest rates so low for so long that when he finally realized the universe was overleveraged and collapsing, he couldn't lower them any more to stop the carnage. 3. Bush, who appointed both the above and Cox - the three people with the clearest day to day responsibility to forsee, forestall, and forewarn, and who failed in epic fashion to discharge their office.

modified on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 5:47 PM

Mike Gaskey · modified on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 5:47 PM

Rob Graham wrote:

You forgot two 3:

no argument.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Oakman

Mike Gaskey wrote:

Who said that?

No-one, but I was asking for a clarification to make sure that I understood what you were saying.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Oakman · modified on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 5:47 PM

Rob Graham wrote:

You forgot

Seems to me, that a lot of our problems started under Alan Greenspan, the man most responsible for controlling the economy from 1987 to 2006. He, more than most, ecouraged a debt-driven economy as a replacement for the manufacturing-driven economy we once had.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

oilFactotum

BoneSoft wrote:

And Democrats had no choice to do something about it?

Did I say that? No I did not.

BoneSoft wrote:

Gee, blaming the bastards that started it, those who kicked it into overdrive, and those who blocked reform

If you're saying that the Dems are responsible for all of that - hogwash.

BoneSoft wrote:

only because you and your buddies are intent on demonizing GWB

:laugh: :laugh: He doesn't need any help from me on that front. He did that to himself, with help from his friend Cheney, Rumsfeld, Addington and Yoo and the list goes on and on.

BoneSoft wrote:

Of course Bush and McCain both tried to reform FMs and were blocked by Frank, Dodd, Waters, et al

:laugh: Another good laugh. The FM's aren't responsible for this mess and those dems didn't block any reform. You've already forgotten the control the R's had over the House when they were in control? If they had wanted to do something, a handful of dems could not have stopped them.

BoneSoft wrote:

But to you it's all Bush's fault?

No, I didn't say that at all, but as usual you are not listening. That would only contradict the ridiculous narrative that you have invented in that fevered brain of yours. I've said it twice already, but I'll say it again: The guys with the money. The guys who bought securitized debt and leveraged it 25 fold. If you want to personalize it - those are the guys. Lehman brothers and all the rest.

oilFactotum

BoneSoft wrote:

Really[^]?

Really??? September of 2008? :laugh:

BoneSoft wrote:

Right, but it couldn't have been more than 8 years... Right?

Didn't say that, did I? In fact I said it has some roots further back than that. But, hey, I understand your incapacity to listen. :rolleyes:

oilFactotum

Oakman wrote:

Nor did it happen in just the last eight.

Didn't say it had.

Oakman wrote:

It can be traced back to the Clinton years quite easily.

And earlier, as I have already said.

Oakman wrote:

Which is not to say that the Bush Aministration's commitment to deregulation did not exacerbate the problem tremendously.

Which I agree with compeletely.

oilFactotum

BoneSoft wrote:

But when Obama starts tearing down the demoncracy,

If he does, he will only be building on Bush's great work!

BoneSoft wrote:

we'll see

Yes, we will.

BoneSoft wrote:

continue to blame all the world's ills on the GWB 8 years.

What a ridiculous statement.

Rob Graham

Yep. It supported his theory of controlling economic fluctuations using interest rates. Sadly, he appeared to succeed, so we were all fooled into believing that we needed no other tools.

Oakman

Rob Graham wrote:

It supported his theory of controlling economic fluctuations using interest rates

I can remember when Japan's banks crashed, everyone congratulated him on the marvelous job he did protecting the U.S. from the fallout that has swept around the globe. It appears now as if the Federal Reserve 'controlled' the economy by keeping an ever-tighter lid on the pressure cooker while allow the heat to slowly increase.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

modified on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:49 PM

Mike Gaskey

Oakman wrote:

I was asking for a clarification to make sure that I understood what you were saying.

apology for jumping the gun there.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

BoneSoft

oilFactotum wrote:

What a ridiculous statement.

Yet you continue.

Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.

BoneSoft

oilFactotum wrote:

September of 2008?

You have to watch more than the first 2 seconds to get anything from it. But hey, I understand your reluctance to expose yourself to anything that might prove your world view to be based on media spoon fed BS. Dodd, Frank and Waters (among other, lesser pinkos) shown in the video were blocking FM reform in 2004. Which is still too late, but at least they (Republicans) tried and weren't on the team that thought everything should continue as usual, bucking reform at all cost.

oilFactotum wrote:

Didn't say that, did I? In fact I said it has some roots further back than that. But, hey, I understand your incapacity to listen.

oilFactotum wrote:

Republicans controlled both houses and the executive for most of the past 8 years. This did not happen overnight.

So... You meant the first statement to be taken as irrelevant as it is? You have an interesting approach to debate, I'll give you that. :rolleyes:

Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.