actually, who screwed the economy

Oakman · modified on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 5:47 PM

Rob Graham wrote:

You forgot

Seems to me, that a lot of our problems started under Alan Greenspan, the man most responsible for controlling the economy from 1987 to 2006. He, more than most, ecouraged a debt-driven economy as a replacement for the manufacturing-driven economy we once had.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

oilFactotum

BoneSoft wrote:

And Democrats had no choice to do something about it?

Did I say that? No I did not.

BoneSoft wrote:

Gee, blaming the bastards that started it, those who kicked it into overdrive, and those who blocked reform

If you're saying that the Dems are responsible for all of that - hogwash.

BoneSoft wrote:

only because you and your buddies are intent on demonizing GWB

:laugh: :laugh: He doesn't need any help from me on that front. He did that to himself, with help from his friend Cheney, Rumsfeld, Addington and Yoo and the list goes on and on.

BoneSoft wrote:

Of course Bush and McCain both tried to reform FMs and were blocked by Frank, Dodd, Waters, et al

:laugh: Another good laugh. The FM's aren't responsible for this mess and those dems didn't block any reform. You've already forgotten the control the R's had over the House when they were in control? If they had wanted to do something, a handful of dems could not have stopped them.

BoneSoft wrote:

But to you it's all Bush's fault?

No, I didn't say that at all, but as usual you are not listening. That would only contradict the ridiculous narrative that you have invented in that fevered brain of yours. I've said it twice already, but I'll say it again: The guys with the money. The guys who bought securitized debt and leveraged it 25 fold. If you want to personalize it - those are the guys. Lehman brothers and all the rest.

oilFactotum

BoneSoft wrote:

Really[^]?

Really??? September of 2008? :laugh:

BoneSoft wrote:

Right, but it couldn't have been more than 8 years... Right?

Didn't say that, did I? In fact I said it has some roots further back than that. But, hey, I understand your incapacity to listen. :rolleyes:

oilFactotum

Oakman wrote:

Nor did it happen in just the last eight.

Didn't say it had.

Oakman wrote:

It can be traced back to the Clinton years quite easily.

And earlier, as I have already said.

Oakman wrote:

Which is not to say that the Bush Aministration's commitment to deregulation did not exacerbate the problem tremendously.

Which I agree with compeletely.

oilFactotum

BoneSoft wrote:

But when Obama starts tearing down the demoncracy,

If he does, he will only be building on Bush's great work!

BoneSoft wrote:

we'll see

Yes, we will.

BoneSoft wrote:

continue to blame all the world's ills on the GWB 8 years.

What a ridiculous statement.

Rob Graham

Yep. It supported his theory of controlling economic fluctuations using interest rates. Sadly, he appeared to succeed, so we were all fooled into believing that we needed no other tools.

Oakman

Rob Graham wrote:

It supported his theory of controlling economic fluctuations using interest rates

I can remember when Japan's banks crashed, everyone congratulated him on the marvelous job he did protecting the U.S. from the fallout that has swept around the globe. It appears now as if the Federal Reserve 'controlled' the economy by keeping an ever-tighter lid on the pressure cooker while allow the heat to slowly increase.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

modified on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:49 PM

Mike Gaskey

Oakman wrote:

I was asking for a clarification to make sure that I understood what you were saying.

apology for jumping the gun there.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

BoneSoft

oilFactotum wrote:

What a ridiculous statement.

Yet you continue.

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BoneSoft

oilFactotum wrote:

September of 2008?

You have to watch more than the first 2 seconds to get anything from it. But hey, I understand your reluctance to expose yourself to anything that might prove your world view to be based on media spoon fed BS. Dodd, Frank and Waters (among other, lesser pinkos) shown in the video were blocking FM reform in 2004. Which is still too late, but at least they (Republicans) tried and weren't on the team that thought everything should continue as usual, bucking reform at all cost.

oilFactotum wrote:

Didn't say that, did I? In fact I said it has some roots further back than that. But, hey, I understand your incapacity to listen.

oilFactotum wrote:

Republicans controlled both houses and the executive for most of the past 8 years. This did not happen overnight.

So... You meant the first statement to be taken as irrelevant as it is? You have an interesting approach to debate, I'll give you that. :rolleyes:

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BoneSoft

oilFactotum wrote:

Did I say that? No I did not.

No, you just conveniently omit all Democrat involvement. You know, the parts where it was setup and defended until it ran the economy into the ground and broke it off in the tax payers ass.

oilFactotum wrote:

If you're saying that the Dems are responsible for all of that - hogwash.

No, not the Dems. A specific set of Dems: Carter, Clinton, Frank, Dodd, Reins, Waters, etc... I didn't say they were alone either. But they were the cause.

oilFactotum wrote:

The FM's aren't responsible for this mess

They were the tipping point. They were also the government owned spear-head and prime example of how to give crappy loans. And they were some of the largest toxic loaners.

oilFactotum wrote:

and those dems didn't block any reform

Watch the damn video knucklehead! It's public record! Video, in their own words! Why do I bother... Think what you want, I'm sure the Kremlin appreciates your continued participation in the lefy dream world. Sure it was all Wall street, like MSNBC told you. Never mind the fact that those securities were based on crappy mortgages handed out by banks that were FORCED to do so by Democrat legislation and lefty activist groups. Just whatever keeps a Democrat from having to admit another Democrat was wrong. :rolleyes: There was plenty of nastiness on Wall street, and a lot of sorry bastards should be strung up. But let's not act like they caused this alone while the marxist programs that fed them toxic ammo had nothing to do with it. We have sh!t piled on sh!t, and you want to play like the bottom layer was actually roses. But I already know what you're going to say, some snide comment filled bildge following "I didn't say that"

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oilFactotum

BoneSoft wrote:

No, you just conveniently omit all Democrat involvement

No I haven't. I have been responding to the moronic claims that this is the dems fault. It isn't. I pointed out who I think carries the biggest responsibilty - the people with the money - and pointed out how the R's have had their hands on the levers of power for the past 8 years. Everything else is about you own internal narrative that ignores all external input.

BoneSoft wrote:

You know, the parts where it was setup and defended until it ran the economy into the ground and broke it off in the tax payers ass.

The simple fact is that that is a a bunch of hoey, and you should know better.

BoneSoft wrote:

But they were the cause.

No, sorry. You are blinded by yourinflexible partisanship. You've bought in to the party line and can't see past easy, superficial and simplistic explanations. It soothes you, no doubt, to have such an easy narrative to explain it all.

BoneSoft wrote:

They were the tipping point.

It's sad to see that you are so easily led around by the nose by the right wing noise machine.

BoneSoft wrote:

Watch the damn video knucklehead!

September 2008. Meaningless.

BoneSoft wrote:

crappy mortgages handed out by banks that were FORCED to do so by Democrat legislation

Total BS. Show me where Lehman brothers were forced to make bad loans(Not that they make mortgages at all - which is my point). Or WaMu or AIG. Not a single finacial CEO has ever gone on record complaining that they were forced to make bad loans. There is no law on the books that compel bad loans at all(Not even CRA). So whine away about the evil Democrats(how tedious), cry about how the R's are blamed for everthing(cry baby), suck your thumb and keep your blinders on.

oilFactotum

BoneSoft wrote:

FM reform in 2004.

At a time when the republican controlled the congress. :laugh:

BoneSoft wrote:

So... You meant the first statement to be taken as irrelevant as it is?

Of course it's not irrelevant. But do tell how does "The Republicans controlled both houses and the executive for most of the past 8 years" translate to "The root of the finacial crisis began 8 year ago with the election of George Bush"? I'll have to respond to your style of debate thusly: X|

oilFactotum

Continue with what? Calling you are your BS when you lie about what I have said - Of course.

Sahir Shah

Mike Gaskey wrote:

who the f*** cares about their religion? read the news dumbass.

sorry. i got you mixed up with someone else who was spouting some nonsense. in another window which was open at the same time. i got a bit mixed up yesterday. it must be the damn bacardi, sorry :-O

Sahir Shah

MrPlankton wrote:

You view the world through an intresting set of spectacles.

not really, that was a response to someone who does. it got said to the wrong person due to a mixup. see my other post.

Sahir Shah

MrPlankton wrote:

What's happening over there?

a lot of people are losing jobs. yesterday a colleague's wife lost her job with a firm of architects. i think she was working there as an electrical engineer. they let go of 200 people from that company yesterday. it's the first time it's happening to someone i know.

BoneSoft

oilFactotum wrote:

September 2008. Meaningless.

Yes it is. Watch the stinkin video. It cuts between 2008 with Peloci spouting lies, and 2004 showing various Dems yapping about how there's nothing wrong with FMs, which is completely contradictory with what Peloci is yammering on about in 08. If you'd watched more than 2 seconds of it, you'd know that.

oilFactotum wrote:

There is no law on the books that compel bad loans at all(Not even CRA)

I didn't say anything about law, did I? Between activist groups that made it virtually impossible to stay in business without forking over bad loans, and Clinton's sub-prime[^] mortgage, lending firms (not Wall street financial firms) were pretty much forced to give bad loans to the lefy's socialist cause. "In 1999, under pressure from the Clinton administration, Fannie Mae, the nation's largest home mortgage underwriter, relaxed credit requirements on the loans it would purchase from other banks and lenders, hoping that easing these restrictions would result in increased loan availability for minority and low-income buyers. Putting pressure on the GSE's (Government Sponsored Enterprise) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Clinton administration looked to increase their sub-prime portfolios"

oilFactotum wrote:

So whine away about the evil Democrats... cry about how the R's are blamed for everthing...

Where did I say anything of the sort? Blame the Republicans all you want, but if you're going to you should at least acknowledge the Democrats mistakes in all this. The left made a giant bomb with a "Marx or Bust!" bumper sticker on it, wall street lit the fuze, Bush told Barney to put it out, Barney said "ova my dead fat bwoated bwody", and Bush shrugged and walked away. Then Peloci said "it was all Bush's fault", and Oily nodded and started spouting the mantra. As for the rest of your dismissive condescending response, read it back to yourself and imagine it's me responding to you so we can get this tedious cycle rolling a little faster. Just replace "right-wing" with "pinko-lefty", and "your thumb" with "my Barney Frank".

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BoneSoft

oilFactotum wrote:

At a time when the republican controlled the congress.

Laugh it up, your statement is irrelevant. It's a matter of public record. If you'd watched the video, you'd have some indication of that.

oilFactotum wrote:

But do tell how does "The Republicans controlled both houses and the executive for most of the past 8 years" translate to "The root of the finacial crisis began 8 year ago with the election of George Bush"?

Multiple times now you've said it wasn't the Dems fault because Republicans controlled congress and the oval office for the last 8 years. Levers of power and all that. Hell you even did it again in that response. How else was that to be taken? Maybe you just suck at expressing ideas through language, have you tried interpretive dance?

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BoneSoft

I haven't lied about what you've said. If you can't turn the various propogandist talking points MSNBC has fed you into a coherent statement, how can I be held responsible for misunderstanding it?

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