This is defense? [modified]
-
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Not without a serious death toll on their side as well.
That sounds like you think Hamas is holding back. I find that awfully hard to believe.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Not at all. I think Hamas is at its limits for now, but because of the way Israel has handled the issue, I'm afraid they have sent people to join their ranks in droves MUCH better and faster than any propaganda Hamas might have used. I meant the use of Nuke in their backyard, they'd surely be hurting their own as well.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
-
Oakman wrote:
To tell the truth, I am not sure that the above scenario is avoidable.
Depends on how Obama deals with Iran. But I too think it's just a matter of time until some jihadi somewhere gets their hands on a wad of uranium. It's a scarey world these days. Ya know, when I was a kid, I thought about the old Chinese proverb "may you live in interesting times" and I thought "man, I wish I did". Now that I most certainly do, I miss the good ol' boring days. Then again, the good ol' boring days were probably only that way because I didn't see what was happening in the world.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
But I too think it's just a matter of time until some jihadi somewhere gets their hands on a wad of uranium. It's a scarey world these days.
My guess is Pakistan is the supplier, not Iran, but it sure is scarey. It's one of the reasons I live in a rural area.
BoneSoft wrote:
Then again, the good ol' boring days were probably only that way because I didn't see what was happening in the world.
Problem was that while it was boring over here, the world was pouring money into the hands of a bunch of nomads whose idea of civilization was to remember to wipe their ass with the fingers of one hand and eat with the fingers of the other. And honorable warfare meant not to fuck the other guy's wives after you killed them. Unfortunately these guys became so rich that they threw out the relatively civilized rulers of the Arab world and set themselves up in their place.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
You really don't have a clue as to what the hell is going on there do you?
yeah --- Israel is going to do what the people of Gaza (if they truly want peace) should have done long ago --- remove everything that is Hamas. What are they supposed to do in fighting back --- use water pistols? You and I both know that if an Israeli soldier (one in uniform, unlike the terrorists of Hamas), were captured, he would be skinned alive and have his throat slit, then his body would be dragged around behind a vehicle being driven by Hamas. Just wake up to the real world, will you. The ones who have control over this whole mess are THE PEOPLE OF GAZA. Do they want peace or not? Ridding themselves of the terrorists is a good start, don't you think? And no, I am not Stan. But I've lived long enough in this world to know that war is utter brutality, especially for those on the losing side. Even in the worst of wars, the civilians knew enough to TRY and get out of the way of the fighting. This is the reality of war. I never said it was nice.
AF Pilot
Reagan Conservative wrote:
You and I both know that if an Israeli soldier (one in uniform, unlike the terrorists of Hamas), were captured, he would be skinned alive and have his throat slit, then his body would be dragged around behind a vehicle being driven by Hamas.
Actually, what you just described was something the Israelis had done to a Palestinian boy[^] a few years ago (2004). Someone was able to get pictures of it and the UN condemned the action, which the Israeli government said that they would look into. Nothing else came out of it. Now you need to smell what you're shoveling. :rolleyes:
-
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Every news feed I read I check with at least 2 others, if they all concur, I use it. What do you use other than rightist propaganda?
Then I must assume (as you assumed), that you must use leftist propaganda? All I know is that the world news has so many pictures plastered on the news of "innocent" civilians being killed, especially women and children, that I wonder why there are no pictures of killed and maimed Israeli civilians being plastered all over? Has that not piqued your interest, or do you believe everything the media throws your way? Does "balanced reporting ever cross your mind." And the fact that you've "been there" doesn't mean squat for the PRESENT SITUATION! I've been to a lot of places too, and that would not make me an expert on what was happening there if war broke out!
AF Pilot
Generally, I do lean towards the left but I'm not so far gone to walk in what you might consider the "dark side". I'm wholeheartedly a progressive and not a conservative. But I try my best to listen to both sides before I judge and I apply that mentality to the news.
Reagan Conservative wrote:
All I know is that the world news has so many pictures plastered on the news of "innocent" civilians being killed, especially women and children, that I wonder why there are no pictures of killed and maimed Israeli civilians being plastered all over? Has that not piqued your interest, or do you believe everything the media throws your way? Does "balanced reporting ever cross your mind."
Blah blah blah blah. Its like you're trying to say I'm with Hamas. I'm not. I'm against the level of escalation Israel is using. Unlike what you and several others might believe, I hope for a peaceful solution and existence. Also, just FYI, I get as pissed off when Hamas or any other militant organization does what it does, its downright despicable, but what a coincidence, the IDF is doing the exact same thing.
Reagan Conservative wrote:
And the fact that you've "been there" doesn't mean squat for the PRESENT SITUATION! I've been to a lot of places too, and that would not make me an expert on what was happening there if war broke out!
It means that I know where they're coming from, but fine, I'll play along. My father-in-law is the President of the ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross), he gets very graphic and very detailed reports. That's my best and most arbitrary source of information.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
-
Not at all. I think Hamas is at its limits for now, but because of the way Israel has handled the issue, I'm afraid they have sent people to join their ranks in droves MUCH better and faster than any propaganda Hamas might have used. I meant the use of Nuke in their backyard, they'd surely be hurting their own as well.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I meant the use of Nuke in their backyard, they'd surely be hurting their own as well.
I wasn't talking about nukes, either. If Israel wanted to, they could turn Gaza city into a mini-Dresden using conventional weapons.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
But Mike, from the way you told it, its OK for the Israelis to live in peace and prosperity and security but its not a thing for the Palestinians.
I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion but I'm all for everyone living in peace, but and it is a big but, if a people are being attacked they have every right to do whatever it takes to stop it. Again, how long should Israel have just sit there watching rockets being lobbed into their country? If we're being honest, we both know that if Israel continued to take it, the rockets would have continues to increase in effectiveness and in strength. Hamas is obviously an Iranian proxy and Hamas' charter call for the death of Jews and Iran calls for their destruction. Pretend you're an Israeli, what would you want done?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
The exact same thing, peace and prosperity for all, but I'd approach it with a completely different paradigm, one that has yielded excellent fruit in Jordan. I'd get the change from the inside. I'd show the advantage of prosperity and peace. Radicalism disappears double quick when that happens. And before you misunderstand me or for someone else to twist my words, I'm for the war against terror but completely against the way it was conducted.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
-
You twat: the Israelis use US weaponry! Besides the whole 'lets not hurt the civilians' mantra is fine when the civilians are not living on and around the site of the launchers but complete bollocks in real life. I, for one, fully back what Israel is doing and hope they finish what they started and I don't give a toss if anyone downvotes me: it won't chnage what I think.
digital man wrote:
I, for one, fully back what Israel is doing and hope they finish what they started
See, that's the pivotal point of argument between you and me. I'm not against what they're doing to Hamas, its the civilians I'm arguing for.
digital man wrote:
I don't give a toss if anyone downvotes me: it won't chnage what I think.
And neither should you, stick to your guns unless you are convinced otherwise. I don't vote.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
-
No where near to the amount of Jews? Unless you're like Mel Gibson and just forgot to count the numbers of WW2.
EliottA wrote:
No where near to the amount of Jews? Unless you're like Mel Gibson and just forgot to count the numbers of WW2.
And that is related to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict how?
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
-
Asshat, better to not attack Gaza and keep having 20+ rockets a day land in Israel? Because Hamas is just "defending" itself then, right? This is a sound message from Israel to the Palestinian people, "You own Gaza. it is yours. You choose your own government and which political parties you support. if you support Hamas while they launch rockets, then it is the same as if you launched them yourselves. If they hit us, we will now hit you" Why is it you people forget that the Palestinian people are a self-governing society? Let them get out of their houses and kick Hamas out, or this is the alternative.
EliottA wrote:
This is a sound message from Israel to the Palestinian people, "You own Gaza. it is yours. You choose your own government and which political parties you support. if you support Hamas while they launch rockets, then it is the same as if you launched them yourselves. If they hit us, we will now hit you"
And the UN. Israel knows the GPS coordinate of all UN buildings for months. UN buildings are clearly indicated as such. How targeting them can help in defending Israel from Hamas attacks?
Society is composed of two great classes, those that have more dinners than appetite, and those who have more appetite than dinners Fold with us! ¤ flickr
-
And I'm still being told that this is defense. Defense my ass. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7829912.stm[^] and http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5053R720090115[^]
- A boat carrying medical supplies to Gaza is surrounded by Israeli warships in international waters off Lebanon's southern coast and forced to return to Cyprus, according to charity Free Gaza
- Palestinian deaths in the Gaza Strip reach 1,028 according to Gaza medical sources. Nearly a third of the dead are said to be children
- The UN's relief agency, Unrwa, says part of its HQ in the city is on fire after being shelled by the Israelis.
- Speaking to reporters on the Israel-Gaza border, Unrwa spokesman Christopher Gunness said three of the agency's employees were hurt in the attack. He said the compound was hit by what Unrwa believed to be three white phosphorus shells, which are incendiary weapons used as a smoke screen.About 700 people were still sheltering in the compound, he said, and he was particularly concerned about the proximity of the fire to five full fuel tanks. Asked whether he was sure the attack had been carried out by Israel, he said he was not aware of Hamas having access to white phosphorus. Mr Gunness added that Unrwa would not be able to distribute food or medical supplies on Thursday as its trucks were unable to leave the compound.
- More than 1,000 Gazans and 13 Israelis have reportedly died so far in the conflict.
- Dozens of terrified residents were seen fleeing on foot. Thousands more huddled in homes that provided precarious shelter while explosions tore through rubble-strewn streets clouded by smoke. "It is a catastrophe," one woman said, walking quickly away from the area and carrying a child in her arms as two other children ran behind her to keep up. "We took our money and passports. We have to carry some identification with us in case we get killed," she said. "Hamas can claim victory if it wants but we just need this bloodshed to end."
- A senior Western diplomat said Israel appeared to be trying to make last-minute gains on the groun
-
Again, I ask, what is Hamas Israel targetting? Schools, which after 3 days they admitted was a mistake. Humanitarian agencies, civilian homes, hospitals, food stores, fuel stores. If we want to go historical, you just count how many sources of livelihoods, how many pregnant Palestinian women were stopped from reaching the hospital or were killed outright and their bellies ripped open to see what the gender of the fetus was.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
-
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
That was not what I meant, or said
But the two things are the same. This is something Russia demonstrated that it knew when it invaded Georgia. Overwhelming force is the best way of avoid casualties on your own side. Yes, people may piss and moan - I remember doing some myself. But you soldiers survive and if you put them in harms way, you owe it to them to do everything in your power to make sure that they can make sure that it's the other poor sonsabitches who die for their country.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
force used becomes unjust, uncivilized, and excessive
War is uncivilized. Period. Death is unjust. Period. Any destruction is excessive. Period. Something I don't think that the Islamofascists get is that you better not deal in war unless you expect to face uncivilized, unjust, and as excessive-as-possible soldiers, bent on killing you as fast and efficiently as possible. One of the reasons they haven't figured it out is that they keep thinking that 'world opinion' protects them and, maybe they are not wrong. So many, many people says, "Well I don't think Hamas is in the right, but. . ." And after the but comes something that says that Israel needs to be willing to let more of its people die.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
War is uncivilized. Period. Death is unjust. Period. Any destruction is excessive. Period.
You are of course correct. Not having served in the UK's Armed Forces, I can only accept and recognise your particular knowledge of war and the conduct of war, and in particular your comments to Mustafa (below) regarding your experiences in Vietnam.
-
Want to talk about history, Ok. How many times did the surrounding Arab countries attack Israel with no warning, and with no cause? 7? 8? How many times did they do it on Jewish Holidays? 2? 3? How many times did Arab terrorists kidnap Israeli's through Plane Hijackings or Kidnappings? 20? 40? Let's really not compare the dirty actions of these 2 peoples, you'll find they don't stack up in your favor.
-
digital man wrote:
I, for one, fully back what Israel is doing and hope they finish what they started
See, that's the pivotal point of argument between you and me. I'm not against what they're doing to Hamas, its the civilians I'm arguing for.
digital man wrote:
I don't give a toss if anyone downvotes me: it won't chnage what I think.
And neither should you, stick to your guns unless you are convinced otherwise. I don't vote.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I'm not against what they're doing to Hamas, its the civilians I'm arguing for.
I would much rather that not one person has to die but, in the real world of war that just ain't going to happen and there is no technology available that allows them to return fire and only kill the enemy: anyone else kept close by will suffer as well. In any case, Hamas brought this on themselves: no one made them lob rockets into Israel over the last 8 years and I don't recall anyone here starting a thread moaning about how many innocent Israelis got killed. As I've said before it may be that only 20% of those killed in Gaza where innocent but it is 100% of those being killed in Israel. How about starting a debate on that?
-
EliottA wrote:
No where near to the amount of Jews? Unless you're like Mel Gibson and just forgot to count the numbers of WW2.
And that is related to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict how?
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
-
Reagan Conservative wrote:
You and I both know that if an Israeli soldier (one in uniform, unlike the terrorists of Hamas), were captured, he would be skinned alive and have his throat slit, then his body would be dragged around behind a vehicle being driven by Hamas.
Actually, what you just described was something the Israelis had done to a Palestinian boy[^] a few years ago (2004). Someone was able to get pictures of it and the UN condemned the action, which the Israeli government said that they would look into. Nothing else came out of it. Now you need to smell what you're shoveling. :rolleyes:
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Actually, what you just described was something the Israelis had done to a Palestinian boy[^] a few years ago (2004).
That was cowardly, but forcing a kid to sit on top of a jeep so the rest of his gang would stop throwing rocks isn't the equivalent of being "skinned alive and have his throat slit, then his body would be dragged around." Things not equal to the same thing are not equal to each other - even if the victim is an Arab.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Shame on the US for using it.
American soldiers stayed alive because it was used. Not using it would have been stupid and dishonorable. One of the things I think that no-one who hasn't been in combat (among which we can number Stan and Ilion and Adnan) is that all weapons are inhumane. Whether you are firing a bolt-action carbine or dropping a bunker-buster from 20,000 feet, the idea is to take human life as quickly and easily as possible. And once the other guy is dead, it doesn't matter to him whether he died from a bayonet in the throat or Grad artillery rocket fired from 20 km away. People who dance around labeling this weapon OK and this one sometimes OK, and this one unacceptable, prove, imho, one thing - they have never been under fire.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
If the children die in their homes because of an attack by the IAF, the kid is classified as a terrorist? Give me a break Jon.
I'll apologise for saying that -- as soon as you link to where I did. Of course, kids die in War. It is a terrible price that is paid by the true civilians in Israel or Gaza, or Iraq, or Bosnia, or Georgia (and maybe soon, the Ukraine.) I have seen dead babies killed by the Viet Cong and I have seen dead babies killed by US forces (and maybe by me.) I still - 50 years later - have nightmares about what I saw. If I could wave my magic wand and stop all killing of innocents, do you think I would hesitate?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
completely equivalent to Hamas' tactics.
Granting for the sake of the argument, that you are correct, please remember that Israel has two condition for ceasing to fire: no more rockets into Israeli territory and no resupply of Hamas via Egypt. They have made it quite clear to the Egyptians who are trying to broker the cease fire (you said they'd never accept an Egyptian peace plan, as I remember) that this is the price Gaza must pay for peace. All Hamas has to do is agree and the war stops. All Israel needs to know is that they will not be allowed to start up again, and Hamas can do whatever it wants within its own borders. You suggest that won't be very pretty, but Israel won't care. If Hamas needs to be disciplined, replaced, or wiped out, let their Arab brethren do it - right now, of course, Jordan, the West Bank Palestinians, and Egypt are delighted that Israel has do
Oakman wrote:
American soldiers stayed alive because it was used.
That does not justify that either.
Oakman wrote:
Not using it would have been stupid and dishonorable.
That's your opinion, I say not using it would have been a bit more humane. In the end, I'm of the persuasion that war in its entirety cannot be thought of as humane, but I dying instantly is infinitely better than dying by being burned alive. You should know that because if IIRC you fought in Vietam correct? You'd know about Napalm and death and war. I'm not being sarcastic.
Oakman wrote:
I'll apologise for saying that -- as soon as you link to where I did.
That was the implication I understood, my apologies.
Oakman wrote:
If I could wave my magic wand and stop all killing of innocents, do you think I would hesitate?
I doubt you would and probably just wave the damned thing again and again for good measure but it still doesn't justify what's happening in the amount of force being used.
Oakman wrote:
All Hamas has to do is agree and the war stops. All Israel needs to know is that they will not be allowed to start up again, and Hamas can do whatever it wants within its own borders. You suggest that won't be very pretty, but Israel won't care. If Hamas needs to be disciplined, replaced, or wiped out, let their Arab brethren do it - right now, of course, Jordan, the West Bank Palestinians, and Egypt are delighted that Israel has done what it has done.
And Hamas wants the blockade from all sides lifted. Before the Israeli incursion that killed 6 militants, Hamas was actually offering Israel a truce with years ranging from 20-50 years. Draw your own conclusions. The governments are certainly neutral, leaning towards happy, the people are furious. It won't go easy on the governments a bit later on. I fear from tomorrow.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up
-
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I'm not against what they're doing to Hamas, its the civilians I'm arguing for.
I would much rather that not one person has to die but, in the real world of war that just ain't going to happen and there is no technology available that allows them to return fire and only kill the enemy: anyone else kept close by will suffer as well. In any case, Hamas brought this on themselves: no one made them lob rockets into Israel over the last 8 years and I don't recall anyone here starting a thread moaning about how many innocent Israelis got killed. As I've said before it may be that only 20% of those killed in Gaza where innocent but it is 100% of those being killed in Israel. How about starting a debate on that?
digital man wrote:
I would much rather that not one person has to die
Good, we're on agreement on that point.
digital man wrote:
in the real world of war that just ain't going to happen
Sadly, that's true.
digital man wrote:
there is no technology available that allows them to return fire and only kill the enemy: anyone else kept close by will suffer as well
Yes, but collateral damage can be minimized through precision weaponry, laser guided bombs, commando units, smart bombs that land on painted targets and so on. I'm back to the argument of using a half-ton bomb to wipe out a house will unnecessarily wipe out the neighborhood its in as well.
digital man wrote:
In any case, Hamas brought this on themselves
They deserve what they're getting. Its the people I feel for.
digital man wrote:
As I've said before it may be that only 20% of those killed in Gaza where innocent
See, official reports are saying that of the 1000 (or so) dead, nearly a 1/3 are children. How are these children being placed on the terrorist list?
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
-
EliottA wrote:
This is a sound message from Israel to the Palestinian people, "You own Gaza. it is yours. You choose your own government and which political parties you support. if you support Hamas while they launch rockets, then it is the same as if you launched them yourselves. If they hit us, we will now hit you"
And the UN. Israel knows the GPS coordinate of all UN buildings for months. UN buildings are clearly indicated as such. How targeting them can help in defending Israel from Hamas attacks?
Society is composed of two great classes, those that have more dinners than appetite, and those who have more appetite than dinners Fold with us! ¤ flickr
Twice. The second time with foreknowledge that there were 100s of civilians hiding out there because it was thought to be safe.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
-
digital man wrote:
I, for one, fully back what Israel is doing and hope they finish what they started
See, that's the pivotal point of argument between you and me. I'm not against what they're doing to Hamas, its the civilians I'm arguing for.
digital man wrote:
I don't give a toss if anyone downvotes me: it won't chnage what I think.
And neither should you, stick to your guns unless you are convinced otherwise. I don't vote.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
its the civilians I'm arguing for.
So why aren't you railing against Egypt for bottling up the civilians? Why is it perfectly acceptable to you for an Arab country to refuse asylum to other Arabs? Hell, the Gaza strip used to be Egypt's problem, didn't it? And before you tell me "it's not acceptable, but" - imagine you are talking to a Palestinian standing at the southern border with his family, knowing that an evil regime has taken over your country and forced a war with its neighbor. Tell him why it's okay.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface