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  4. This is defense? [modified]

This is defense? [modified]

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  • M Mike Gaskey

    I don't disagree with you in general terms, but just based on what I see (news, 'net, newspapers) from here, Jordanians have a much different outlook than do Palestinians. It may be leadership in some final analysis. Palestinians have looked to terrorists like Arafat and now Hamas for leadership, and it isn't working.

    Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

    M Offline
    M Offline
    Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
    wrote on last edited by
    #137

    It is leadership. About 90% of the Jordanian population is not Jordanian per se. They're Palestinians. My father is an example. I don't count myself as either Palestinian or Jordanian but as an Arab but that's because I have a completely different ideology.

    Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful


    Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib

    Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.

    I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer

    M 1 Reply Last reply
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    • L Lost User

      Umm, it led to the creation of a Jewish state. Might have *something* to do with it.

      M Offline
      M Offline
      Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
      wrote on last edited by
      #138

      No no, wait, we were discussing the death toll of Arab to Jew, as it pertains to conflicts between them, where the hell does WWII come into play? Also, its GB that really started the whole thing otherwise, Jews were more than happy to start their state in Uganda.

      Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful


      Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib

      Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.

      I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer

      L B 2 Replies Last reply
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      • M Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

        No no, wait, we were discussing the death toll of Arab to Jew, as it pertains to conflicts between them, where the hell does WWII come into play? Also, its GB that really started the whole thing otherwise, Jews were more than happy to start their state in Uganda.

        Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful


        Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib

        Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.

        I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer

        L Offline
        L Offline
        Lost User
        wrote on last edited by
        #139

        Umm, yes we where, we wanted Israel, not Uganda. And it comes into play because WW2 *created* Israel as a result.

        M 1 Reply Last reply
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        • L Lost User

          Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:

          Add to that continuous pain and suffering for over 60 years and you may begin to understand why things are so there.

          it wasn't yours for 60 years.

          Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:

          he Palestinians will always fight or endure for their land.

          It wont be yours for much longer if rockets keep coming

          B Offline
          B Offline
          Bassam Abdul Baki
          wrote on last edited by
          #140

          EliottA wrote:

          it wasn't yours for 60 years.

          Lebanon was also occupied for a few decades, we know what they're feeling.

          EliottA wrote:

          It wont be yours for much longer if rockets keep coming

          Hamas represents a small percentage of the Palestinians. If the people felt like there was no hope left, I'm sure the nine million plus of them will all come back home and force either the Israelis to blow the entire region up or come up with an amicable solution. Again, it's really a no-win situation. The sooner people start realizing that, the sooner they realize they need a workable option.


          Web - Blog - RSS - Math - BM

          L 1 Reply Last reply
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          • B Bassam Abdul Baki

            That's the same thing they do to Lebanon every year or so, destroy the infrastructure, keep the people restless, and claim to be the only peaceful, democratic nation in the Middle East. Their PR engine is #1 in the world. :)


            Web - Blog - RSS - Math - BM

            M Offline
            M Offline
            Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
            wrote on last edited by
            #141

            Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:

            Their PR engine is #1 in the world.

            Without a doubt. Its amazing really, I'm in complete awe of it.

            Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful


            Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib

            Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.

            I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • B Bassam Abdul Baki

              EliottA wrote:

              it wasn't yours for 60 years.

              Lebanon was also occupied for a few decades, we know what they're feeling.

              EliottA wrote:

              It wont be yours for much longer if rockets keep coming

              Hamas represents a small percentage of the Palestinians. If the people felt like there was no hope left, I'm sure the nine million plus of them will all come back home and force either the Israelis to blow the entire region up or come up with an amicable solution. Again, it's really a no-win situation. The sooner people start realizing that, the sooner they realize they need a workable option.


              Web - Blog - RSS - Math - BM

              L Offline
              L Offline
              Lost User
              wrote on last edited by
              #142

              Firstly, Im lebanese, so I know the history. Secondly, thats right Hamas is a small percentage, which is my point. Get the vast majority of Palestinians to take matters into their own hands and kick Hamas out. They can do it. By sitting and doing nothing, they are *supporting* Hamas. All the populous of a country pays for its governments' actions, which is what is happening now.

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              • L Lost User

                Umm, yes we where, we wanted Israel, not Uganda. And it comes into play because WW2 *created* Israel as a result.

                M Offline
                M Offline
                Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
                wrote on last edited by
                #143

                Check your history books dude.

                Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful


                Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib

                Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.

                I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer

                L 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • B Bassam Abdul Baki

                  Dude, forget it. :laugh:


                  Web - Blog - RSS - Math - BM

                  M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #144

                  Looks like I'm going to have to.

                  Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful


                  Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib

                  Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.

                  I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • M Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

                    Check your history books dude.

                    Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful


                    Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib

                    Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.

                    I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer

                    L Offline
                    L Offline
                    Lost User
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #145

                    I don't really need to. Israel has been home to the Jews for, and no joke and no offense, before the Arab culture emerged. Check your history books "dude", Israel has fought how many wars against the Arab nations surround it's territory? How many times was it a draw? 0? How many times did Israel get attacked with no warning, and instead of losing, ended up conquering territory? Yeah that's right, Hamas will be no different. Israel clearly attempted to give Hamas a shot with the ceasefire that ended on the 27th. Hamas, never at one point honored their word and simply rearmed and continued to launch rockets. This is a direct result of their actions and now the supporting populous which is the Palestinian people must sit in their bed, for they have made it.

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                    • S Sahir Shah

                      mustafa, don't get me wrong but you got to think about this. suppose hamas has a nuke would they hesitate to use it ???? israel actually has nukes. they haven't used them. i call that restraint exercised by a civilised democracy. any objections ?

                      K Offline
                      K Offline
                      KaRl
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #146

                      If indian extremists attack Pakistan, would Pakistan be entitled to nuke all of India?

                      If you kill a whale, you get Greenpeace and Jacques Cousteau on your back, but wipe out sardines and you get a canning subsidy! Fold with us! ¤ flickr

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • L Lost User

                        Firstly, Im lebanese, so I know the history. Secondly, thats right Hamas is a small percentage, which is my point. Get the vast majority of Palestinians to take matters into their own hands and kick Hamas out. They can do it. By sitting and doing nothing, they are *supporting* Hamas. All the populous of a country pays for its governments' actions, which is what is happening now.

                        B Offline
                        B Offline
                        Bassam Abdul Baki
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #147

                        EliottA wrote:

                        Firstly, Im lebanese

                        Who isn't?

                        EliottA wrote:

                        so I know the history.

                        That makes two of us.

                        EliottA wrote:

                        Get the vast majority of Palestinians to take matters into their own hands and kick Hamas out. They can do it.

                        Hamas didn't exist 60 years ago. Like I said, the problem isn't Hamas. Hamas is a consequence of what hasn't been happening. That is, the people have been suffering for 60 years, and nothing good ever came out of it for them. Assume for one minute that Hamas isn't there, do you expect their rights to be returned to them? You're dreaming if you say yes. So what other options are there? The wall wasn't meant just to stop the shootings, it was supposed to limit their growth, take away land for their farming, and deny them access to an underground river that runs just outside the wall. In time, the Palestinians will starve to death and it will be "their fault" for not being able to manage their "country" when they were left alone. Then the wall will come down again.


                        Web - Blog - RSS - Math - BM

                        L 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • M Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

                          It is leadership. About 90% of the Jordanian population is not Jordanian per se. They're Palestinians. My father is an example. I don't count myself as either Palestinian or Jordanian but as an Arab but that's because I have a completely different ideology.

                          Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful


                          Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib

                          Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.

                          I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer

                          M Offline
                          M Offline
                          Mike Gaskey
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #148

                          Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:

                          It is leadership.

                          Is there anyone on the horizon that can be effective or is this a permanent situation?

                          Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

                          M 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • L Lost User

                            Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:

                            Add to that continuous pain and suffering for over 60 years and you may begin to understand why things are so there.

                            it wasn't yours for 60 years.

                            Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:

                            he Palestinians will always fight or endure for their land.

                            It wont be yours for much longer if rockets keep coming

                            M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #149

                            EliottA wrote:

                            it wasn't yours for 60 years.

                            So you're saying acknowledging that it was taken? Interesting. I salute your honesty.

                            EliottA wrote:

                            It wont be yours for much longer if rockets keep coming

                            Still theirs? I thought Israel had it for 60 years and its no longer Palestinian? Let me give you a little lesson. Before the arrival of recognized terror groups like the Haganah and ILZ, Muslims, Christians and Jews (all Arab and Palestinian) lived very happily there for eons. Then the whole Zionist movement came along and look what happened. In a nutshell, that is the cause of everything. Look to your history books for proof. Also, your implication is that there will either be an eradication, which will not hold anywhere, or the use of a Nuke that would destroy Israel as well.

                            Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful


                            Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib

                            Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.

                            I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer

                            O 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • M Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

                              No no, wait, we were discussing the death toll of Arab to Jew, as it pertains to conflicts between them, where the hell does WWII come into play? Also, its GB that really started the whole thing otherwise, Jews were more than happy to start their state in Uganda.

                              Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful


                              Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib

                              Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.

                              I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer

                              B Offline
                              B Offline
                              Bassam Abdul Baki
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #150

                              Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:

                              Jews were more than happy to start their state in Uganda.

                              Actually, the very first nation asked to give up land for the establishment of a jewish state was Mother Russia. They "declined" obviously.


                              Web - Blog - RSS - Math - BM

                              M 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • B Bassam Abdul Baki

                                Oakman wrote:

                                Granting for the sake of the argument, that you are correct, please remember that Israel has two condition for ceasing to fire: no more rockets into Israeli territory and no resupply of Hamas via Egypt.

                                And the Palestinians have only two conditions: the right of return and reimbursement. What do you think will happen once there's a cease-fire? Think it will last if one side keeps caging up the other? Think they'll open the cage and let them roam free and have more Palestinian babies? This is a no-win war because 60 years ago somebody messed up big. Oh well, at least things are great here (until the end of the month when my contract expires and I join the ranks of the unemployed).


                                Web - Blog - RSS - Math - BM

                                O Offline
                                O Offline
                                Oakman
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #151

                                Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:

                                And the Palestinians have only two conditions: the right of return and reimbursement

                                I really try top respect you, honest. But you make it very difficult when you start coming across with arguments that Adnan would support. Few of the Palestinians alive today ever lived in Israel. However, if this is a compelling argument, then Jordan - which controls 75% of the old Palestine mandate - should give them the land that belonged to the 600,000 Jews who either chose to leave, or were forced out, at the same time that the Arabs left the land claimed by Israel.

                                Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:

                                Think it will last if one side keeps caging up the other?

                                You mean the way Lebanon and Syria does the Palestinians? As to the Gaza strip being a cage - take it up with the Egyptians.

                                Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:

                                the end of the month when my contract expires and I join the ranks of the unemployed).

                                Bad time to have that happen. I'm guessing unemployment insurance is not something you can count on.

                                Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                B 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • B Bassam Abdul Baki

                                  EliottA wrote:

                                  Firstly, Im lebanese

                                  Who isn't?

                                  EliottA wrote:

                                  so I know the history.

                                  That makes two of us.

                                  EliottA wrote:

                                  Get the vast majority of Palestinians to take matters into their own hands and kick Hamas out. They can do it.

                                  Hamas didn't exist 60 years ago. Like I said, the problem isn't Hamas. Hamas is a consequence of what hasn't been happening. That is, the people have been suffering for 60 years, and nothing good ever came out of it for them. Assume for one minute that Hamas isn't there, do you expect their rights to be returned to them? You're dreaming if you say yes. So what other options are there? The wall wasn't meant just to stop the shootings, it was supposed to limit their growth, take away land for their farming, and deny them access to an underground river that runs just outside the wall. In time, the Palestinians will starve to death and it will be "their fault" for not being able to manage their "country" when they were left alone. Then the wall will come down again.


                                  Web - Blog - RSS - Math - BM

                                  L Offline
                                  L Offline
                                  Lost User
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #152

                                  The wall isn't coming down, and it's meant to keep people out. not to block a river or anythign of the sort, Israel provides Palestine with water and food consistantly. And yes, if Hamas and other terrorist organizations would leave Israel alone, there would no need for Military actions.

                                  Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:

                                  Hamas didn't exist 60 years ago. Like I said, the problem isn't Hamas. Hamas is a consequence of what hasn't been happening. That is, the people have been suffering for 60 years, and nothing good ever came out of it for them.

                                  No Hamas didn't exist 60 years ago, black October did, and other radical groups. They come and go as Israel eradicates them all slowly but surely.

                                  Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:

                                  Assume for one minute that Hamas isn't there

                                  No assumptions, they ARE there, and as long as the Palestinian people allow them to be, then they(Hamas) will be targeted where they are located, which happens to be Gaza. Do you think for one second Israel would go into Gaza or the WB without cause? Without provocation? Now you're the one dreaming.

                                  B 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • L Lost User

                                    I don't really need to. Israel has been home to the Jews for, and no joke and no offense, before the Arab culture emerged. Check your history books "dude", Israel has fought how many wars against the Arab nations surround it's territory? How many times was it a draw? 0? How many times did Israel get attacked with no warning, and instead of losing, ended up conquering territory? Yeah that's right, Hamas will be no different. Israel clearly attempted to give Hamas a shot with the ceasefire that ended on the 27th. Hamas, never at one point honored their word and simply rearmed and continued to launch rockets. This is a direct result of their actions and now the supporting populous which is the Palestinian people must sit in their bed, for they have made it.

                                    B Offline
                                    B Offline
                                    Bassam Abdul Baki
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #153

                                    EliottA wrote:

                                    Israel has been home to the Jews for, and no joke and no offense, before the Arab culture emerged.

                                    That's because Arabs is a relatively new term. However, the people have been there long before the Israelis came. Even the bible says that god promised to remove them from the land, but obviously never did, and then asked them to send spies to see what they were up to. Therefore, it's all god's fault.


                                    Web - Blog - RSS - Math - BM

                                    L 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • B Bassam Abdul Baki

                                      It's the truth. Lebanon is even smaller than Israel. Also, some of them were given Lebanese citizenship. However, the majority of them wish to go back home, but can't.


                                      Web - Blog - RSS - Math - BM

                                      O Offline
                                      O Offline
                                      Oakman
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #154

                                      Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:

                                      the majority of them wish to go back home, but can't

                                      The truth is that many of them have never lived in Israel, Many Palestinians aren't even descended from people who lived in Israel. They come from Jordan but the Jordanians don't want them around any more than the Lebanese do.

                                      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                      B M 2 Replies Last reply
                                      0
                                      • B Bassam Abdul Baki

                                        EliottA wrote:

                                        Israel has been home to the Jews for, and no joke and no offense, before the Arab culture emerged.

                                        That's because Arabs is a relatively new term. However, the people have been there long before the Israelis came. Even the bible says that god promised to remove them from the land, but obviously never did, and then asked them to send spies to see what they were up to. Therefore, it's all god's fault.


                                        Web - Blog - RSS - Math - BM

                                        L Offline
                                        L Offline
                                        Lost User
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #155

                                        I'm not getting into this one with you.

                                        B 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • M Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

                                          EliottA wrote:

                                          it wasn't yours for 60 years.

                                          So you're saying acknowledging that it was taken? Interesting. I salute your honesty.

                                          EliottA wrote:

                                          It wont be yours for much longer if rockets keep coming

                                          Still theirs? I thought Israel had it for 60 years and its no longer Palestinian? Let me give you a little lesson. Before the arrival of recognized terror groups like the Haganah and ILZ, Muslims, Christians and Jews (all Arab and Palestinian) lived very happily there for eons. Then the whole Zionist movement came along and look what happened. In a nutshell, that is the cause of everything. Look to your history books for proof. Also, your implication is that there will either be an eradication, which will not hold anywhere, or the use of a Nuke that would destroy Israel as well.

                                          Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful


                                          Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib

                                          Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.

                                          I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer

                                          O Offline
                                          O Offline
                                          Oakman
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #156

                                          Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:

                                          Before the arrival of recognized terror groups like the Haganah and ILZ, Muslims, Christians and Jews (all Arab and Palestinian) lived very happily there for eons.

                                          I know, let's bring bring back the British! They can't fuck it up any worse than they already did. I think the most fun the Jews and Arabs had together before 1945 was when the Ba'ath Party was organized in direct imitation of the Nazis.

                                          Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                          B 1 Reply Last reply
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