Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Code Project
  1. Home
  2. The Lounge
  3. Book covering basic physics/electronics relevant to computer science?

Book covering basic physics/electronics relevant to computer science?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Lounge
learninggame-devhelpquestion
34 Posts 24 Posters 0 Views 1 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • C Charvak Karpe

    dan neely wrote:

    Unfortunately transistors work based on quantum mechanical principles. According to Classical Physics they won't work. The closest you're going to get in laymans terms is "When voltage is applied to the control lead MAGIC HAPPENS and it connects the input and output leads. When the voltage is removed from the control the connection is broken."

    Modern 45 nm transistors may have quantum mechanical principles, but I think regular NPN transistors and MOSFETs have classical operation. 1. Pure silicon does not conduct because there are no floating electrons. 2. By "doping" silicon with impurities to the left or right on the periodic table, you create atoms in the lattice structure with extra free electrons or missing electrons (known as holes). 3. Look up the operation of a P-N junction. It's something about how current can only flow from the positively doped silicon to the negatively doped silicon because there are no excess electrons in the P-type silicon to start current flow the other way. If you make the junction too small or raise the voltage too high, you get quantum tunneling of electrons across the P-type silicon, but that's not an issue with transistors that you can see. 4. MOSFETs are fun. That stands for Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor, which explains their function. They have an N-P-N arrangement of silicon with a layer of oxide covering the trio and then a layer of metal above that. If you try to pass current across through the N-P-N silicon, the N-P reverse diode junction blocks it. But if you apply a positive voltage to the metal at the top, the whole thing acts as a capacitor, pulling a layer of electrons out of the P-type silicon to create a temporary N-type channel right up against the oxide layer. This allows current to flow across because now you have some N-N-N above the N-P-N. Martin, I highly commend you for your curiosity and desire to learn the basics of physics and how they power our computers. The knowledge itself is not necessary to be a coder, but that inquisitive mentality is what makes someone an excellent problem solver. Sort of changing the subject, but still on the topic of physics basics, how do people feel about the current level of knowledge about conservation of energy, flows of heat, etc.? How many people realize that energy saving light bulbs don't help in places that are simultaneously running electric heaters? Or, why is running air conditioner in reverse bet

    A Offline
    A Offline
    Alan Balkany
    wrote on last edited by
    #25

    Very interesting, especially the parts about applying physics to daily activities. You should write some articles on this! If you did, I'd be interested in reading them.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • C Charvak Karpe

      dan neely wrote:

      Unfortunately transistors work based on quantum mechanical principles. According to Classical Physics they won't work. The closest you're going to get in laymans terms is "When voltage is applied to the control lead MAGIC HAPPENS and it connects the input and output leads. When the voltage is removed from the control the connection is broken."

      Modern 45 nm transistors may have quantum mechanical principles, but I think regular NPN transistors and MOSFETs have classical operation. 1. Pure silicon does not conduct because there are no floating electrons. 2. By "doping" silicon with impurities to the left or right on the periodic table, you create atoms in the lattice structure with extra free electrons or missing electrons (known as holes). 3. Look up the operation of a P-N junction. It's something about how current can only flow from the positively doped silicon to the negatively doped silicon because there are no excess electrons in the P-type silicon to start current flow the other way. If you make the junction too small or raise the voltage too high, you get quantum tunneling of electrons across the P-type silicon, but that's not an issue with transistors that you can see. 4. MOSFETs are fun. That stands for Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor, which explains their function. They have an N-P-N arrangement of silicon with a layer of oxide covering the trio and then a layer of metal above that. If you try to pass current across through the N-P-N silicon, the N-P reverse diode junction blocks it. But if you apply a positive voltage to the metal at the top, the whole thing acts as a capacitor, pulling a layer of electrons out of the P-type silicon to create a temporary N-type channel right up against the oxide layer. This allows current to flow across because now you have some N-N-N above the N-P-N. Martin, I highly commend you for your curiosity and desire to learn the basics of physics and how they power our computers. The knowledge itself is not necessary to be a coder, but that inquisitive mentality is what makes someone an excellent problem solver. Sort of changing the subject, but still on the topic of physics basics, how do people feel about the current level of knowledge about conservation of energy, flows of heat, etc.? How many people realize that energy saving light bulbs don't help in places that are simultaneously running electric heaters? Or, why is running air conditioner in reverse bet

      P Offline
      P Offline
      pg az
      wrote on last edited by
      #26

      Charvak Karpe wrote:

      regular NPN transistors and MOSFETs have classical operation

      While "regular" transistors are not flirting with the theoretical limits to their miniaturization, as you clearly essentially know to even talk about "lattice" or "free electrons", these concepts are intrinsically quantum mechanical, an NPN transistor isn't analogous to say a triode.

      Charvak Karpe wrote:

      empty bottle of syrup turned upside down

      For an exciting video try the google query (( PITCH DROP EXPERIMENT )).

      pg--az

      E 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • C Charvak Karpe

        dan neely wrote:

        Unfortunately transistors work based on quantum mechanical principles. According to Classical Physics they won't work. The closest you're going to get in laymans terms is "When voltage is applied to the control lead MAGIC HAPPENS and it connects the input and output leads. When the voltage is removed from the control the connection is broken."

        Modern 45 nm transistors may have quantum mechanical principles, but I think regular NPN transistors and MOSFETs have classical operation. 1. Pure silicon does not conduct because there are no floating electrons. 2. By "doping" silicon with impurities to the left or right on the periodic table, you create atoms in the lattice structure with extra free electrons or missing electrons (known as holes). 3. Look up the operation of a P-N junction. It's something about how current can only flow from the positively doped silicon to the negatively doped silicon because there are no excess electrons in the P-type silicon to start current flow the other way. If you make the junction too small or raise the voltage too high, you get quantum tunneling of electrons across the P-type silicon, but that's not an issue with transistors that you can see. 4. MOSFETs are fun. That stands for Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor, which explains their function. They have an N-P-N arrangement of silicon with a layer of oxide covering the trio and then a layer of metal above that. If you try to pass current across through the N-P-N silicon, the N-P reverse diode junction blocks it. But if you apply a positive voltage to the metal at the top, the whole thing acts as a capacitor, pulling a layer of electrons out of the P-type silicon to create a temporary N-type channel right up against the oxide layer. This allows current to flow across because now you have some N-N-N above the N-P-N. Martin, I highly commend you for your curiosity and desire to learn the basics of physics and how they power our computers. The knowledge itself is not necessary to be a coder, but that inquisitive mentality is what makes someone an excellent problem solver. Sort of changing the subject, but still on the topic of physics basics, how do people feel about the current level of knowledge about conservation of energy, flows of heat, etc.? How many people realize that energy saving light bulbs don't help in places that are simultaneously running electric heaters? Or, why is running air conditioner in reverse bet

        D Offline
        D Offline
        Dan Neely
        wrote on last edited by
        #27

        Charvak Karpe wrote:

        Modern 45 nm transistors may have quantum mechanical principles, but I think regular NPN transistors and MOSFETs have classical operation.

        Nope. The end effects look classical but the components they function on (eg holes) of all come from quantum effects. The continued shrinking of processes is adding quantum effects at at different level, such that the pseudo classical explanations that you get from crunching the quantum equations on larger transistors no longer apply.

        This idea that particles could only contain lumps of energy in certain sizes
        moved into other areas of physics as well. Over the next decade, Niels Bohr pulled
        it into his description of how an atom worked. He said that electrons traveling
        around a nucleus couldn't have arbitrarily small or arbitrarily large amounts of
        energy, they could only have multiples of a standard "quantum" of energy.

        Eventually scientists realized this explained why some materials are conductors of
        electricity and some aren't -- since atoms with differing energy electron orbits
        conduct electricity differently. This understanding was crucial to building a
        transistor, since the crystal at its core is made by mixing materials with varying
        amounts of conductivity.

        http://www.pbs.org/transistor/science/info/quantum.html[^][^] http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-03/952639215.Ph.r.html[^]

        Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • C Charvak Karpe

          dan neely wrote:

          Unfortunately transistors work based on quantum mechanical principles. According to Classical Physics they won't work. The closest you're going to get in laymans terms is "When voltage is applied to the control lead MAGIC HAPPENS and it connects the input and output leads. When the voltage is removed from the control the connection is broken."

          Modern 45 nm transistors may have quantum mechanical principles, but I think regular NPN transistors and MOSFETs have classical operation. 1. Pure silicon does not conduct because there are no floating electrons. 2. By "doping" silicon with impurities to the left or right on the periodic table, you create atoms in the lattice structure with extra free electrons or missing electrons (known as holes). 3. Look up the operation of a P-N junction. It's something about how current can only flow from the positively doped silicon to the negatively doped silicon because there are no excess electrons in the P-type silicon to start current flow the other way. If you make the junction too small or raise the voltage too high, you get quantum tunneling of electrons across the P-type silicon, but that's not an issue with transistors that you can see. 4. MOSFETs are fun. That stands for Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor, which explains their function. They have an N-P-N arrangement of silicon with a layer of oxide covering the trio and then a layer of metal above that. If you try to pass current across through the N-P-N silicon, the N-P reverse diode junction blocks it. But if you apply a positive voltage to the metal at the top, the whole thing acts as a capacitor, pulling a layer of electrons out of the P-type silicon to create a temporary N-type channel right up against the oxide layer. This allows current to flow across because now you have some N-N-N above the N-P-N. Martin, I highly commend you for your curiosity and desire to learn the basics of physics and how they power our computers. The knowledge itself is not necessary to be a coder, but that inquisitive mentality is what makes someone an excellent problem solver. Sort of changing the subject, but still on the topic of physics basics, how do people feel about the current level of knowledge about conservation of energy, flows of heat, etc.? How many people realize that energy saving light bulbs don't help in places that are simultaneously running electric heaters? Or, why is running air conditioner in reverse bet

          D Offline
          D Offline
          destynova
          wrote on last edited by
          #28

          Interesting points! Have you seen the 'shouting at hard drives slows them down' video? :)

          P 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • D destynova

            Interesting points! Have you seen the 'shouting at hard drives slows them down' video? :)

            P Offline
            P Offline
            pg az
            wrote on last edited by
            #29

            destynova wrote:

            'shouting at hard drives slows them down' video?

            I tried, with the Google query (( shouting hard drive windows )), but at least the first few links did not seem to say anything about Microsoft playing "catch up". Since this DTRACE-demo is talking about milliseconds, obviously ETW has the precision to give us this kind of information, but, correct me if I'm wrong, Microsoft does not expose their ETW-trace-points like a file of "Debug Symbols".

            pg--az

            D 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • P pg az

              destynova wrote:

              'shouting at hard drives slows them down' video?

              I tried, with the Google query (( shouting hard drive windows )), but at least the first few links did not seem to say anything about Microsoft playing "catch up". Since this DTRACE-demo is talking about milliseconds, obviously ETW has the precision to give us this kind of information, but, correct me if I'm wrong, Microsoft does not expose their ETW-trace-points like a file of "Debug Symbols".

              pg--az

              D Offline
              D Offline
              destynova
              wrote on last edited by
              #30

              I should have provided a link, like this one :)

              P 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • P pg az

                Charvak Karpe wrote:

                regular NPN transistors and MOSFETs have classical operation

                While "regular" transistors are not flirting with the theoretical limits to their miniaturization, as you clearly essentially know to even talk about "lattice" or "free electrons", these concepts are intrinsically quantum mechanical, an NPN transistor isn't analogous to say a triode.

                Charvak Karpe wrote:

                empty bottle of syrup turned upside down

                For an exciting video try the google query (( PITCH DROP EXPERIMENT )).

                pg--az

                E Offline
                E Offline
                Edwin Smith
                wrote on last edited by
                #31

                I would beg to differ! An FET (the T means transistor) is essentially a triode and functions much the same as a vacuum tube triode although at a much lower voltage. the only difference between an NPN transistor and a vacuum tube triode is that the transistor requires a positive (+) to turn it on and a vacuum tube triode (and an FET) requires a negative (-) bias to turn it off. Otherwise both an NPN transistor and a vacuum tube triode are exactly analogous. The emitter is analogous to the cathode, the base is analogous to the grid and the collector is analogous to the plate. With an FET the source is analogous to the cathode (although there are both N-channel and P-channel FETs which have the opposite polarities) the gate is analogous to the grid and the drain is analogous to the plate. All of the mentioned devices have three connections which function in almost exactly the same way and intrinsically do so at the quantum level. Besides, intrinsically, triode means three electrodes. Both transistors and vacuum tubes have both Newtonian and quantum characteristics. However for the most part we use the smooth curves of the "real" world to describe their characteristics while any transfer of energy happens in distinct quanta. Both transistor and vacuum tube noise are quantum phenomena but they are usually expressed as DB in the analog world and mostly irrelevant in the digital world. All energy converted in a resistor can be expressed in the simple formula E=IR where E is volts, I is Amperes, and R is Ohms. Algebraically it is a linear function but at the quantum level Schrodinger's cat has the final say. You might just as well have said that everything is intrinsically quantum mechanical which adds nothing to the conversation. Diodes were discovered before quantum mechanics was even a theory and so were electricity and x-rays. There was great controversy as to whether light was composed of particles or waves because it has the characteristics of both. To learn basic electronics and Newtonian physics does not at all require any knowledge of quantum mechanics at all. I learned about donors and holes in semiconductors and electrons, neutrons, and protons in my electronics class and also noise but it really wasn't necessary to know to do design work with either transistors or vacuum tubes. In fact it was many years later that I even heard about quantum mechanics. It is commendable that somebody is curious enough to want to know electronics and physics. In fact a basic grounding in Physics should be ma

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • D destynova

                  I should have provided a link, like this one :)

                  P Offline
                  P Offline
                  pg az
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #32

                  Yes, I listened to it again and he very clearly says DTRACE, which has its own Wikipedia write-up and is to me one of Sun's big value-adds. DTRACE seems to be way ahead of Microsoft's ETW, at least based on my limited information.

                  pg--az

                  C 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • C Charles Pikell

                    :thumbsup:I would also highly recommend the Feynman Lectures, easy and comprehensive for both electronics and physics. Charles Pikell

                    M Offline
                    M Offline
                    MartinSmith
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #33

                    Thanks all, I'll get to grips with the basics first then come and revisit this thread for the further reading/viewing suggestions. It's not really to benefit my programming directly but more for my own interest. As I program a computer all day every day I figure I should at least have some idea how it works! @sibrowne I did see a few of the the Royal Institution Christmas Lectures series. Coincidentally I saw the one on processors just after reading Jon Stokes "inside the machine" and found it excellent for covering very simply some things that had been bugging me throughout reading that. (like how on earth one can physically manufacture chips containing millions of transistors) @mi5ke Chris Bishop in his lecture above did also include a water pipe demo to demonstrate logic gates. At the time I just assumed that it was a simplistic analogy bearing little relation to actual hardware implementations - I clearly should have been paying more attention!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • P pg az

                      Yes, I listened to it again and he very clearly says DTRACE, which has its own Wikipedia write-up and is to me one of Sun's big value-adds. DTRACE seems to be way ahead of Microsoft's ETW, at least based on my limited information.

                      pg--az

                      C Offline
                      C Offline
                      Charvak Karpe
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #34

                      Oh, I had seen the Pitch Drop Experiment at the Ig Nobel Awards at some point. I think glass flows too, although even slower because the thickness variations aren't noticeable until windows get really old. The rest of the University of Queensland Physics Museum looks fun to browse too. It appears that the shouting at hard drives effect is real, huh? I agree with the posts pointing out that the behaviour of electrons in semiconductors is driven by quantum physics. But it's almost like how chemistry is really quantum too. When we say sodium has an extra electron in its outer shell and chlorine has a missing electron, the formation of salt is a quantum effect. I kind of took high school chemistry for what it was without questioning the reasons for why electrons behave the way they do. It's all about what level of abstraction is good enough for you. Computer scientists are fine working down to the logic gate or switch level of abstraction. As an electrical engineer, I got exposed to thinking about how those switches work down to the level of modelling the charge distribution and flow in a P-N junction. If I were more scientific, I'd want to know more about the quantum nature of electron availability. And we could drill further down to quarks, etc. But I think it remains true that you don't have to understand P-N junctions to understand how gates make up a computer and as Edwin pointed out you don't need to know quantum physics to accept the level of abstraction that semiconductor engineering involves until you get to the modern cutting edge. Alan, I'd love to write articles on Physics applied to daily life, breaking down concepts to be as simple as possible, but I get distracted by other projects like programming stuff. Thanks for the interest, though. It's motivation to bump it up on my list of tasks. I should start thinking about a list of important concepts and a map of in what order they should be presented. Maybe I should write case studies aimed at an audience who have had at least basic exposure to high school physics. It's hard to write good definitions of energy/work, power, heat. I remember having a hard time grasping Work = Force * distance and not Work = F * time. Pushing against an immovable object sure feels like work. But the value-add is in pointing out simple applications of basic physics, like answering the question, "What determines the minimum energy required to make a helicopter levitate?" Hint: think momentum/energy. There is no limit because the ideal chopper would m

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      Reply
                      • Reply as topic
                      Log in to reply
                      • Oldest to Newest
                      • Newest to Oldest
                      • Most Votes


                      • Login

                      • Don't have an account? Register

                      • Login or register to search.
                      • First post
                        Last post
                      0
                      • Categories
                      • Recent
                      • Tags
                      • Popular
                      • World
                      • Users
                      • Groups