Freedom of Speech - European style

[KaRl]

Remember the Kristallnacht, it was justified by saying that all the Jews were collectively responsible for the assassination of a German diplomat vom Rath in Paris. The movie follows the same fallacy, making an entire group responsible for the actions of a few. We see here people attacked because they are Jews or Muslims. Should we let some people throw more gas on the fire? I don't think so. Is forbidding such movies a solution? I don't think so either. For the moment I have no solution to offer.

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:

As long as the movie is not telling others to go out and hurt anyone or anyone else's property, then it's just a matter of opinion.

Such a message can be implicit - If I make a movie sayng "Swedish people are ugly bastards and we have to defend ourselves against Sweden", do I bare responsability if a Swedish citizen is attacked the day after?

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread Fold with us! ¤ flickr

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

Sorry, to disappoint you, Jon,

The only disappointment I'm feeling is in myself. I can't believe I switched to I.E. to find out what you were whining about and actually got suckered into pointing out just what an idiot you are, again. Rest assured, that I have learned my lesson. FF is my friend.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Jorgen Sigvardsson]

Ka?l wrote:

For the moment I have no solution to offer.

How about free speech?

Ka?l wrote:

If I make a movie sayng "Swedish people are ugly bastards and we have to defend ourselves against Sweden", do I bare responsability if a Swedish citizen is attacked the day after?

Sure you bear responsibility. Freedom of speech doesn't come without accountability! You are free to yell "Fire!" in a shopping mall, but there will be consequences if you were lying. By suppressing the messages you don't want to hear, only make the messages stronger for those who want to listen. You are handing the suppressed and their followers an enemy to hate. What happened to education??

-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit

[KaRl]

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:

How about free speech?

I don't consider incitations to racial hatred to be covered by free speech.

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:

Freedom of speech doesn't come without accountability!

So this guy should be allowed to show his movie, but he should be trialled as an accomplice if there is any racial attack made by someone who watched his movie?

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:

By suppressing the messages you don't want to hear, only make the messages stronger for those who want to listen.

But you also greatly reduce the number of people hearing that message.

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:

What happened to education??

It was sacrificed years ago in the name of profit.

When they kick at your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun?

Fold with us! ¤ flickr

[Jorgen Sigvardsson]

KaЯl wrote:

I don't consider incitations to racial hatred to be covered by free speech.

I was under the impression that he was criticizing a religion, rather than a race. I go a step further than the movie maker: I criticize all religions and all its baggage. Do I deserve to be tried for my opinions? Does it matter what media I use to voice my opinions?

KaЯl wrote:

So this guy should be allowed to show his movie, but he should be trialled as an accomplice if there is any racial attack made by someone who watched his movie?

Perhaps not as an accomplice, but something appropriate (i leave that to law makers).

-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit

[Mike Gaskey]

Oakman wrote:

3 words: No, Fly, List.

and that may be a good thing for people not on the: No, Fly, List. By the way, there isn't a Don't. Drive. List.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

[Oakman]

Mike Gaskey wrote:

and that may be a good thing for people not on the: No, Fly, List.

Operative word, is 'may." According to some reports, the No Fly List includes some kids 1.5 years old.

Mike Gaskey wrote:

By the way, there isn't a Don't. Drive. List.

Yes, there is. I have it in my hand. I'm just waiting for Car Wars to become reality before implementing the penalty phase. :cool:

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[KaRl]

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:

I was under the impression that he was criticizing a religion, rather than a race

There's only one race :) I use there some gallicanism. 'Racism' is used when there is a segregation based on ethnicity, religion or whatsoever that defines a collectivity. For instance, some use the idiom "racism of class" to define the extermination of kulaks by Stalin.

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:

Do I deserve to be tried for my opinions?

Not for your opinion, but for pushing them on the public place if they can lead to offenses or disorders. For instance, I don't see as a bad thing to forbid the most extremist preachers of the Londonistan to propagate their hatred.

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:

I criticize all religions and all its baggage

Do you think that atheists have to defend themselves against religious people because they are terrorists? It's a call to an 'anticrusade'?

- You French fight for money, while we British fight for honour - A man fights for what he lacks the most!

Fold with us! ¤ flickr

[Mike Gaskey]

Oakman wrote:

I'm just waiting for Car Wars to become reality before implementing the penalty phase

hey, just saw Mad Max whiz by, I think it's on.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

[Oakman]

Mike Gaskey wrote:

hey, just saw Mad Max whiz by, I think it's on

Kewl! Be right back. I just have to mount my 50 cal on the roof of my truck. . . Yo! Adnan! C'mere. Are you available to do a little quality assurance work?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[MrPlankton]

Yikes. Good point. :sigh:

MrPlankton

Mexican boy: Viene la tormenta! Sarah Connor: What did he just say? Gas Station Attendant: He said there's a storm coming Sarah Connor: [sighs] I know.

[MrPlankton]

I bet if you do a search for "louis farrakhan", "Calypso Louie", "mothership" you will answer every question you posed in the afirmative. To my knowledge he's not being prosecuted.

MrPlankton

Mexican boy: Viene la tormenta! Sarah Connor: What did he just say? Gas Station Attendant: He said there's a storm coming Sarah Connor: [sighs] I know.

[Oakman]

Ka?l wrote:

He can still appeal to the European Court of Justice.

Or just go ahead and drink the hemlock.

Ka?l wrote:

If a movie was starting by showing a David's star and then showing palestinian kids killed by Israeli bombings, Palestinians who arms are broken with stones by Israeli soldiers, and then the message was "Stop Jewification. Defend our freedom", wouldn't this movie by antisemitic?

Sounds anti-Israeli to me.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Stan Shannon]

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

Hardly foreign.

It has nothing in common with the principles the country was founded on nor practiced throughout most of its history.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.